[JUDY]

Hi All.  New to the thread because I have what I think is a warranty issue but Hyundai do not and found this forum by googling.
My dilemma is as follows;  My 2010 i30, still in warranty, started to make an odd sound the other night and it turns out that it has a broken spark plug and "insulation ceramic around electrode at combustion chamber end is missing.  cyclinder head requires removal for further investigation."

The car has done 38,346 kms.  Hyundai say that because I didn't get the spark plugs changed at 45,000 kms or 3 years then it will cost me $2,245.00 possibly more.  An independant mechanic said that a spark plug falling apart at 38,000 kms is ridiculous and that I should fight Hyundai on this and that forget the 3 years 45,000 kms should be the deciding factor and my car has only done 38,346.

All opinions welcome.

Thanks for listening/reading

[eye30]

Welcome

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

It would help if you can confirm whether the car has been serviced in accordance with the service schedule and at the required intervals, time or miles.

Also, what was the service schedule requirements for your 3 year service and was it done at a hy garage?

[JUDY]

My last service was last year and I had it done around the corner from where I work.  First time that I didn't have it serviced at Hyundai.  And I haven't had the spark plugs changed.  They say that they should have been changed at 45,000 or 3 years.  Well my car has done 38,364 kms but is 4 1/2 years old. 

[Phil №❶]

I doubt you will win a warranty argument with Hy as you have not serviced the car accorif=ding to their warranty requirements. Should there be any significant damage, Hy realize it could be expensive so the idea is to shut down warranty talk ASAP. However, if it was my car, I would take it to a diagnostic facility and see if they can insert a flexible camera into the combustion chamber and have a look around. It will be a lot cheaper than stripping the top of the motor.

IF YOU'RE LUCKY !

The inside of the combustion chamber is a very turbulent place and it would not be uncommon for the ceramic to be immediately evacuated through your exhaust system.

IF YOU'RE UNLUCKY !

The ceramic parts may become wedged between the piston and the sidewall of the motor scoring the bore . This will quickly show, as oil will be burned and blue smoke will be continuously visible from the exhaust.

Is it still making a noise or not.

[JUDY]

Thanks for the responses guys.  The car is currently at Hyundai and they have taken 2 whole days to come up with a quote.  Car started making a noise and we stopped straight away.  Prior to that it was running like a dream like it always has.  Was not overheating and didn't notice any blue smoke.  I have noticed however that when I left it with them it had 38,363 kms on it and now it has 38,364.....probs nit picking....but hope they haven't been driving it around and caused more damage?  But like I said running like a dream one minute and the next running on 3 legs.

[eye30]

My last service was last year and I had it done around the corner from where I work.  First time that I didn't have it serviced at Hyundai.  And I haven't had the spark plugs changed.  They say that they should have been changed at 45,000 or 3 years.  Well my car has done 38,364 kms but is 4 1/2 years old.

So i take it plugs are not detailed on the invoice.

However, what details are shown such as - carry out 3 year service in accordance with manufacturers service schedule.

If so then may be you have a claim against the garage as they have not done what they said they had, i.e. changed plugs in accordance with schedule.

Ps
Have you actually seen a copy of the hy schedule and does it actually detail plug change?

[JUDY]

spark plugs were not mentioned in the invoice and the garage filled in the optional intermediate thing from memory.  My service book and my car are still at hyundai so probably tomorrow I will be having a big argument with them when I go ballistic about them having to fix it or try to pick my car up and they want me to pay for them to check out the car and I'm pretty sure they never said that there would be a cost for that when they were telling my husband that they couldn't fix it under warranty?  I knew that a spark plug was broken when if was towed in there because the mechanic that came out to tow my car had a look at it but he didn't take the spark plug out.  The invoice said major service

[Dazzler]

Hi Judy and Welcome. Scary stuff! Sounds like Hyundai Dealer has gone in boots and all 

In these situations they forget about building a long term relationship...

I will be interested in what our resident Hyundai Technician (Cruiserfied) has to say.

IMHO an investigation should be a lot cheaper than that!  for a cost effective solution... 

[JUDY]

Yes.......it does leave a bad taste in your mouth.  Funny thing is they haven't even bothered to take out the cracked spark plug and put another one in?????  Car is running, or was when I left it with them....just running rough, not blowing any smoke, not over heating.....just the spark plug top thingy had popped up.  I think they're just having a quiet patch and want to stitch me.  We have 3 Hyundai s and until today would have happily bought more.  Will think on that in the future

[Phil №❶]

I've never heard of a plug failure like that. I'd be changing all the plugs for a more reputable brand.

[Lorian]

What brand of plug has failed? Is it the same manufacturer that Hy factory fit for Australia?

You really need someone to have a quick look in the plug hole with a borescope. I have one but it would be a bit far for me to come look 

> just the spark plug top thingy had popped up.

What exactly do you mean, please describe in some more detail? (photo would be good)

[JUDY]

But the plugs were in the car when I bought it and it has only done 38,364 kms.  Makes me wonder about other things.  I very reputable mechanic thinks that I should take this further because a spark plug breaking after only 38,364 kms must be a poor quality product to begin with?

[Lorian]

But the plugs were in the car when I bought it and it has only done 38,364 kms.  Makes me wonder about other things.  I very reputable mechanic thinks that I should take this further because a spark plug breaking after only 38,364 kms must be a poor quality product to begin with?

So what make are they? the plugs?

[JUDY]

Hi Lorian.  When the mechanic who took the car in for me took the top cover off the lead thing was sitting up higher than the rest. 

[JUDY]

I don't know what make the plugs are.  They are Hyundai factory fitted

[Lorian]

I don't know what make the plugs are.  They are Hyundai factory fitted

My question is because a) if you find the make it would help confirm if they had been replaced at the last service or not, and b) it would allow you to independently check what mileage/age the plug manufacturer normally offers on the plug.

Ultimately you are in a difficult position due to not following the servicing schedule.

If it was me my next actions would be

1) Talk directly to Hyundai Customer Care (not the dealer) and be very polite, and act very disappointed, and see if they will help
2) if point 1 fails, take the car to a reputable independent to fix as their rates and parts costs are probably a lot lower than the dealer.

[lingua franca]

Judy I'm sure that we all sympathise with your plight and hope that a reasonable

solution is reached.

Out of interest I have just looked at the manual for my 2014 1.8 Petrol Auto.
Spark plugs are not mentioned, or even inspected until they are Replaced at
160,000km

The discrepancy in the difference between 45,000km and 160,000 is extraordinary.

However under the heading of Severe Driving Conditions   A,B,H,I,L. they should be "Replace more Frequently Depending on The Condition" (my Caps).

The descriptions of the A,B,H,I,L conditions follow which I won't expand on here, sufficient to say that they probably catch about 60% or more of our members. I think a responsible Car Manufacturer would recommend in their Service Schedules that the spark plugs be inspected at intervals, say 30,000km and not imply by omission that spark plugs be replaced at 160,000 km as some might erroneously believe. What do others think?

[Lorian]

The service interval on a 2014 is not at all relevant to the discussion. It's a completely different car.

[rustynutz]

Out of interest I have just looked at the manual for my 2014 1.8 Petrol Auto.
Spark plugs are not mentioned, or even inspected until they are Replaced at
160,000km

The discrepancy in the difference between 45,000km and 160,000 is extraordinary.

Your GD runs iridium spark plugs...Judy's car would have just your plain old run of the mill type...

[pidim]

But the plugs were in the car when I bought it and it has only done 38,364 kms.  Makes me wonder about other things.  I very reputable mechanic thinks that I should take this further because a spark plug breaking after only 38,364 kms must be a poor quality product to begin with?

Hi Judy, I'm very sorry for the run around you seem to be getting from the dealer.  I'm fairly sure that pre-2012 the service schedule was that plugs on the 2L motor that was in the i30 and i45 were to be changed at the 3 year mark. This was my post on here not that long ago. 
Spark Plug change schedule

[Lorian]

Hi Lorian.  When the mechanic who took the car in for me took the top cover off the lead thing was sitting up higher than the rest.

that can only really occur four ways. Either:
1. the nipple on the end needed screwing back up. minor issue,
2. the plug has unscrewed itself. minor issue.
3. the plug has stripped the threads in the head (fiddly but easy enough to fix)
4. Coupled with the rest of your description of the insulation missing from the electrode, some bizzare plug failure the likes of which I've never seen without a belt breaking, and a piston hitting the plug. Would very much like to see a picture of it.

I'd want to be  sure that this cant just be easily fixed by a new plug, before committing to the head removal.

[eye30]

But the plugs were in the car when I bought it and it has only done 38,364 kms. 

Did you buy new or used?

[eye30]

The service interval on a 2014 is not at all relevant to the discussion. It's a completely different car.

Can anyone confirm the service requirements for  this car, especially the plugs i.e. 2010

[JUDY]

I've had the car since new and I can't get a picture as the car is at Hyundai.  Gonna ask them why they haven't tried just putting a new plug in because like I said the car was running on 3 cylinders and up until the knocking it was running like a dream and even after there was no smoke, no overheating.....just running rough.  I think the dealership just needs the work.  I'm calling customer care tomorrow but only after I speak with another mechanic, get some legal advice and call vcat

[Wingerdave]

Hi Lorian.  When the mechanic who took the car in for me took the top cover off the lead thing was sitting up higher than the rest.

that can only really occur four ways. Either:
1. the nipple on the end needed screwing back up. minor issue,
2. the plug has unscrewed itself. minor issue.
3. the plug has stripped the threads in the head (fiddly but easy enough to fix)
4. Coupled with the rest of your description of the insulation missing from the electrode, some bizzare plug failure the likes of which I've never seen without a belt breaking, and a piston hitting the plug. Would very much like to see a picture of it.

I'd want to be  sure that this cant just be easily fixed by a new plug, before committing to the head removal.

Why haven't they just had a look with an endoscope........ Wouldn't cost much, half an hour at most. Just rotate the engine manually and they could see if there was any scoring or bits of spark plug in the cylinder.
No need to remove the head to inspect it.

And if it is just the ceramic part that cracked and came off then whats the problem they're inventing? broken plug out, new plug in and drive.......

Just thinking out loud...

[Aye30]

36 Months/45,000 Service 

Factory Schedule   $365.00
•Carry out complete global diagnostic system (GDS) check
•Check operation of instrument warning lights, gauges & illumination
•Check vehicle for outstanding recalls or service campaigns
•Inspect SRS air bag & pre-tensioners
•Inspect air cleaner element
•Inspect air con operation & components
•Inspect battery terminals & condition
•Inspect brake fluid/clutch fluid
•Inspect brake hoses & lines
•Inspect condition & pressure of tyres & spare
•Inspect cooling system level, hoses
•Inspect drive shafts & boots
•Inspect evaporator pollen filter
•Inspect exhaust system damage & security
•Inspect front & rear pads, calipers & rotors
•Inspect fuel lines & connections
•Inspect manual transaxle oil
•Inspect operation of lights/wipers, controls & accessories
•Inspect park brake adjustment
•Inspect power steering pump fluid & hoses
•Inspect rear brake drums & linings
•Inspect seat belt webbing & operation
•Inspect steering rack & all linkage components, boots
•Inspect suspension for damage & torque all mounting points
•Lube door, boot, bonnet hinges & latches
•Perform fuel system treatment
•Perform ignition lead resistance check
•Replace engine coolant
•Replace engine oil & filter
•Replace spark plugs

 2010 fd 2.0l according to icare lifetime capped price servicing.

[Phil №❶]

My understanding is that the ceramic that broke, was inside the combustion chamber. This needs to be confirmed, otherwise, replace the plug.

[rustynutz]

Looking at the NGK website, they don't even show a replacement time for plugs, just a "service life" in kilometres... 

Spark Plug Types - Product Information - NGK Spark Plugs Australia

[eye30]

36 Months/45,000 Service 

Factory Schedule   $365.00
•Carry out complete global diagnostic system (GDS) check
•Check operation of instrument warning lights, gauges & illumination
•Check vehicle for outstanding recalls or service campaigns
•Inspect SRS air bag & pre-tensioners
•Inspect air cleaner element
•Inspect air con operation & components
•Inspect battery terminals & condition
•Inspect brake fluid/clutch fluid
•Inspect brake hoses & lines
•Inspect condition & pressure of tyres & spare
•Inspect cooling system level, hoses
•Inspect drive shafts & boots
•Inspect evaporator pollen filter
•Inspect exhaust system damage & security
•Inspect front & rear pads, calipers & rotors
•Inspect fuel lines & connections
•Inspect manual transaxle oil
•Inspect operation of lights/wipers, controls & accessories
•Inspect park brake adjustment
•Inspect power steering pump fluid & hoses
•Inspect rear brake drums & linings
•Inspect seat belt webbing & operation
•Inspect steering rack & all linkage components, boots
•Inspect suspension for damage & torque all mounting points
•Lube door, boot, bonnet hinges & latches
•Perform fuel system treatment
•Perform ignition lead resistance check
•Replace engine coolant
•Replace engine oil & filter
•Replace spark plugs

 2010 fd 2.0l according to icare lifetime capped price servicing.

So if this applies to this model then plugs should have been replaced.

Now the question is........ what is detailed on the invoice from the garage and did they stamp the service book to state they had carried out service in accordance with hy schedule.

You need to have full facts before liability decided.

Ps
If new plugs had been put in do they carry warranty?

[Phil №❶]

Refer post #6