I live in Melbourne, Victoria , Australia. We have a Mobil refinery in Altona and a Shell refinery in Geelong - both within 100 kms. So I can see how the Mobil & Shell service stations get their fuel supplies. However where do the BP and Caltex servo's get their fuel from? The closest BP refinery is Bulwer Island Queensland or Kwinana in WA - >2000kms away, the closest Caltex refinery is Botany Bay in  NSW - approx 900 km's away. Do BP and Caltex truly ship their product from their refineries (in other states) to Melbourne OR do they have a buying agreement with local refineries who supply BP & Caltex tankers with fuel for local distribution? You can't help thinking that shipping it in would be a lot more expensive.
I've seen a Shell tanker offloading bulk fuel to a Mobil service station just outside of Geelong before.
The reason behind the question being - if they supply each other, then who knows what brand you're putting in your tank. ie When you fill up with BP Vortex Premium have you simply put Mobil diesel in your tank? I don't suppose there is much difference between them since they will all have to conform to a minimum spec. However, I would like to hear from anyone with inside knowledge - servo operators etc to get their thoughts.

[Surferdude]

They do have suuply arrangements with one another, but I don't know about the fuel types. I guess it's possible they 'refine" to each brand's rquirements but I suspect it's all just in the branding.
Which might make some of the posts on here about the performance of various brands a bit suss.
Do we get what we pay for? Or do we feel good because of the name on the bowser?

[Phil №❶]

Aren't there price differences between the ordinary fuels and premium products. I must admit, it's not something I'd ever thought of. In Adelaide we used to have a Mobil refinery but it's closed so I think we're supplied from Victoria. What refinery or brand is in the tankers, who knows! I always buy standard fuel from high volume outlets to ensure fresh stock. Hasn't done any harm so far. 

[Dazzler]

I think AgrentR31 (Ian) works at a Brisbane refinery? He might know??

[FatBoy]

I never really thought about it, but I would agree with surferdude.  It would be entirely plausible for the companies to have an agreement where they refine the fuel to the other company's specifications.  The little extra they pay for the refining should be more than compensated for in transport costs. 

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=806216&nodeId=900b1a1d42391b299861765b0eafbbf7&fn=Chapter+3+Industry+structure%E2%80%94refining+and+importing.pdf
Check out section 3.3.7
I guess all this talk about what's the best fuel is all smoke and mirrors (and bullshit)

[Phil №❶]

Interesting document, about the only thing we can hope for is that it meets Oz standards. Most of the time, not even refined here. Next time I see a petrol add, I'll laugh. 

[FatBoy]

So from what I can gather from the document (please correct me if I am reading this wrong), standard fuel from one company is the same as standard from another, same with RON 95, 98 (ie. Catlex Vortex 98 is the same as Shell Optimax 98).  I still believe that the companies would specify the requirements for their fuel though (ie. Caltex Vortex Diesel is different to BP standard diesel).

[2i30s]

the 98Ron we use in our 2 i30's always commes from large named service stations and never little independent ones. in all the years Ive fueled our cars up Ive not noticed any difference in quality of the fuel from servo brand.  Ive always thought the fuel was the same recipe from company to company. IMO.

[FatBoy]

I'd agree with 2i30s about the fuel from different suppliers.  When I drove a V8 Commodore, I always put RON 98 in it, and couldn't tell the difference from one name brand to the other, but the few times I did fill up with RON 91, there was a noticeable difference in performance and economy.  Premium fuels do make a difference IMO.

[2i30s]

I'd agree with 2i30s about the fuel from different suppliers.  When I drove a V8 Commodore, I always put RON 98 in it, and couldn't tell the difference from one name brand to the other, but the few times I did fill up with RON 91, there was a noticeable difference in performance and economy.  Premium fuels do make a difference IMO.

  the main reason i prefer not to use little independent servos is that i once filled up with half a tank of water in my old v8 fairlane. 

[eye30]

Fuel for my area of NW England comes from the Ellesmere Port refinery.

As far as I'm aware they produce fuel for all major petrol companies, shell, BP. Total etc, independents and the supermarkets.

The difference in the fuel will be the additives they put in depending on the brand.

[baroudeur]

Here is the situation in the U.K.  No doubt similar operations are in place around the world.

http://www.ukpia.com/industry_information/distribution.aspx

[Ultralights]

i have never stuck to a specific brand either, and never noticed a difference,  with my CRDI, the last 4 tanks of fuel have all gone between 1000 km and 1100 km, all 4 tanks were different brands, so no real difference there, some were premium diesel, others, Normal diesel, so again no noticeable difference between premium and normal diesel.

  as for my old forester though, it only drank 98 octane being turbo, but again, no real difference between brands, but a big difference when i filled it with 91 when the 98 octane was unavailable in the midle of no-where. also 98 octane with ehthanol destroyed the economy by 25%!  never use that stuff.
though, when it comes to brand loyalty, i will only ever use BP Ultimate 98 in my aircraft, as its the only brand that will provide a written guarantee that it will not contain ethanol.

[Phil №❶]

Does that mean that other brands of AVGAS could contain ethanol. That would surprise me because ethanol does not have the calorific value of petrol. This means the engine WILL USE MORE FUEL through no fault of the fuel or h the engine. That could have disastrous result on an aircraft's quoted range. How do you get around this issue. 

[Ultralights]

Avgas will not have Ethanol in it,  if it did, there would be a lot more engine failures,   fortunately my aircraft is rotax powered and designed to run on 98 Octane Unleaded fuel, and 110 Avgas. though its prefered to use Unleaded, as Avgas is full of lead and requires oil filter and oil change every 25 hrs. whereas with Unleaded i can run to 50 hrs before filter change.
ethanol unfortunatly absorbes water, that can freeze out in cruise and block filters, but worse is the damage is causes to fibreglass and fuel pumps.   fortunatly my aircraft is metal, and would be reasonably tolerant to ethanol,  same cant be said to a few jabiru owners who have had fuel tanks swell up and destroy the wing when they get a dose of Unleaded laced with ethanol.

[Phil №❶]

Good points. 

[FatBoy]

I prefer JetA-1 or AVCAT in my aircraft!! If it don't hover, don't bother!! 

[Ultralights]

i have heard that JetA1 and a little 2 stroke oil goes great in diesel engines 

[FatBoy]

i have heard that JetA1 and a little 2 stroke oil goes great in diesel engines 

AVCAT goes even better, allegedly (it is basically Aviation Diesel that can burn in a GT).

[Phil №❶]

Fatboy

What device in aviation is diesel. 

[FatBoy]

Slight topic creep, but AVCAT is Aviation Carrier Turbine fuel.  It has a higher flash point (min 60 deg C) so it can be stored below decks on ships.  Gas Turbines (GT) will burn almost any fuel, but AVCAT has been specifically refined to be used in ship borne aviation GTs.  It will run a normal diesel engine without any additives.  (De-fuelling an aircraft in the old days had the diesel cars and 4wds lined up for a free top up, once the aircraft has been de-fuelled, you can't put it back in)

[Phil №❶]

Gee that's unfortunate isn't it. Thanks. 

[kabukiman]

I live in Melbourne, Victoria , Australia. We have a Mobil refinery in Altona and a Shell refinery in Geelong - both within 100 kms. So I can see how the Mobil & Shell service stations get their fuel supplies. However where do the BP and Caltex servo's get their fuel from? The closest BP refinery is Bulwer Island Queensland or Kwinana in WA - >2000kms away, the closest Caltex refinery is Botany Bay in  NSW - approx 900 km's away. Do BP and Caltex truly ship their product from their refineries (in other states) to Melbourne OR do they have a buying agreement with local refineries who supply BP & Caltex tankers with fuel for local distribution? You can't help thinking that shipping it in would be a lot more expensive.
I've seen a Shell tanker offloading bulk fuel to a Mobil service station just outside of Geelong before.
The reason behind the question being - if they supply each other, then who knows what brand you're putting in your tank. ie When you fill up with BP Vortex Premium have you simply put Mobil diesel in your tank? I don't suppose there is much difference between them since they will all have to conform to a minimum spec. However, I would like to hear from anyone with inside knowledge - servo operators etc to get their thoughts.

I'm in VIC too.

Mobil here mainly manufactures aviation fuel

Shell and mobil produce base petrol.  Every company then takes this fuel (shell and mobil included) and put a little of their own additives in it, and that's the fuel that ends up in the servos.

So BP 95 for example will be shell 95 with a little BP stuff in the mix.  It'll be why some people think their cars run better on certain brands, often they are probably right.

I've heard horror stories about shell v-power and motorbikes.  Why do the bikes not have trouble with other 98RON fel if it's all shell?  Because of the additives

That said I am led to believe from researching that all 98RON fuel here is actually 95RON with claening agents and octane boosting agents.  Apparently in VIC they only refine fuel to 95RON at the refinery.  Just a bit of useless trivia, not sure if it is true or not.

they're all pretty much the same though.  I believe shell v-power has a higher proportion of cleaning agents so I run a tank of that through every now and again.  My previous car had a habit of missing on v-power when it was cold though.  And I found BP ultimate lasted the longest of any fuel I tried, although I'm not scientific about it and it could all be my imagination.

[kabukiman]

also I fly too!

110/LL avgas is on another planet in terms of refining quality and quality control etc when compared to mogas

But aircraft have very different needs.

I've often heard of people running BP Ultimate in aircraft, never seen in in practice though.

[baroudeur]

Nobody has mentioned biofuel.

The E.U. permits up to 7% biofuel in diesel and pumps are marked B7.