[Greyhound]

Looking at that wiring diagram, I would think those Door and Tailgate switches refer to "door open" switches, not window control switches, as they link to the door open tel-tale on the cluster. That's just my observation anyhow.

[The Gonz]

Looking at that wiring diagram, I would think those Door and Tailgate switches refer to "door open" switches, not window control switches, as they link to the door open tel-tale on the cluster. That's just my observation anyhow.

Thanks, I suspect as much but measuring from the board end of the wiring would negate the need to determine it or take anything else apart.

[eLod]

ok, finally, i had some time to check around. it seems one of my wires i used for the original tests was faulty, bc now i could reproduce with any 2 pin combinations

so here is what i did

- connected an ammeter on the battery negative side in series to be able to check overall drain all the time

- disconnected all the 3 connectors from the instrument cluster, never connected the C one (20pin)

- on connector A (24pin) only connecting pins 12 (fuel sender), 13 (supply from ROOM LP fuse), 15 (supply from CLUSTER fuse), 23 (ground), 24 (fuel ground)

- on connector C (16 pin), i connected various configurations. it seems only ping 10-14 is affecting the parasitic draw, all the others do not affect the outcome (but i haven't test every possible configuration, just connected all except 10-14, confirmed no draw).

so when connecting any of the 10-14 pins in isolation, the draw goes up to around 0.18A (ammeter on battery), after 1 minute it goes down to 0.01A. any time i disconnect/connect another pin, the process repeats (goes up, then after a minute goes down).

any 2 combinations of the 10-14 pins and the 0.18A never goes away. measured current through all the connected pins (with another ammeter, putting it between the connector male and female pin) both when there is a parasitic draw and when there is not.

on connector A
pin 12: 80-82mA initially, then 0mA after a minute when there is no parasitic draw
pin 13: 162-167mA and 1mA after a minute when there is no parasitic draw
pin 15: 0mA
pin 23: 162-167mA and 1mA after a minute when there is no parasitic draw
pin 24: 80-82mA initially, then 0mA after a minute when there is no parasitic draw

if not connecting pin12 and 24
pin 13: 85-87mA
pin 15: 0mA
pin 23: 85-87mA

(i havent wrote down which one was negative/positive, but i think we can guess current direction from the wiring diagram)
on connector B measured pins 10-14, none of them had any current flow ever

i checked what happens if i connect pins 10-14 to car ground directly, and i can confirm they lit up the lcd showing the appropriate door open signal
pin 10: driver (lhd)
pin 11: passenger
pin 12: rear lh
pin 13: rear rh

the push sensors on the doors are working all, checked one by one, when everything connected they do turn on the lcd and show the appropriate signal

In any case, it might be useful to compare resistance to each of these switches from where it connects to the board. They should all measure fairly high (use the ohmmeter setting and measure from cable pin to ground.

should i measure between the board connector pins (eg the male pins of connector B) and between the car ground? or do i need to locate the wiring for the door lock sensors (is that the same thing as the switch or those are different components?)?

measuring between the board pins and ground (using the setting 2M Ohm), all is fluctuating constantly:
pin 11: 0.050 - 0.150 (sometimes even dropping to forties/thirties)
pin 12: 0.250 - 0.320
pin 13: 0.250 - 0.320
pin 14: 0.250 - 0.320

[eLod]

In any case, it might be useful to compare resistance to each of these switches from where it connects to the board. They should all measure fairly high (use the ohmmeter setting and measure from cable pin to ground.

should i measure between the board connector pins (eg the male pins of connector B) and between the car ground? or do i need to locate the wiring for the door lock sensors (is that the same thing as the switch or those are different components?)?

measuring between the board pins and ground (using the setting 2M Ohm), all is fluctuating constantly:
pin 11: 0.050 - 0.150 (sometimes even dropping to forties/thirties)
pin 12: 0.250 - 0.320
pin 13: 0.250 - 0.320
pin 14: 0.250 - 0.320

strange. i measured with the other multimeter, all 4 pins show -0.470 (on 2M, -4.70 on 20M) (and not fluctuating at all). both my  multimeters show 0 when i connected the leads and 0L or 1 if not connected to anything. also if i connected the COM to the pin and the positive to ground i get a reading, but if connecting COM to ground and positive to pin then as if no connection.

[Greyhound]

@The Gonz.
I have admiration for helping here under difficult circumstances, reliant on only text exchanges during faultfinding in a different time zone. I have been trying to make head or tails of it myself, but I am finding it really difficult to follow.

Question. Are you asking @eLod to measure impedence of each door switch sense wire to ground, from (disconnected) connector at the Cluster.
See diagram attached. i.e. pins 10,11,12,13. disconnected from Cluster represented by red X's.

I see from the circuit diagram that wires from those switches also individually run in parallel to "BCM" via other connectors "MF12" and "MF22" located somewhere. So impedence test, even if Cluster connector is disconnected, will be affected by the BCM in parallel.

@eLod
Note: When you are using a multimeter in Impedance (ohms) mode, the meter itself applies a dc voltage. Make sure the circuit you are testing is not live with another dc voltage, otherwise results will be strange.

[eLod]

@eLod
Note: When you are using a multimeter in Impedance (ohms) mode, the meter itself applies a dc voltage. Make sure the circuit you are testing is not live with another dc voltage, otherwise results will be strange.

sry for the dumb question, are you saying i should disconnect the battery (or otherwise cut the power to the instrument cluster) for measuring impedance?

[Greyhound]

What I am saying is measure the impedance of the wiring and switches with the connector to Cluster disconnected, so that the wiring is isolated from the vehicle power source. However, as that same switch wiring also runs in parallel to the BCM, the circuit you wish to measure impedence is not truly isolated, even with the Cluster connector pulled.

With the Cluster connector pulled, is there a voltage present at the cable pins 10, 11, 12, 13 ?
If so, that may be due to those door switches also being connected to BCM. That will mess with your switch circuit impedence measurements.

[The Gonz]

@The Gonz.
I have admiration for helping here under difficult circumstances, reliant on only text exchanges during faultfinding in a different time zone. I have been trying to make head or tails of it myself, but I am finding it really difficult to follow.

No kidding! The recognition is appreciated, @Greyhound. This is really challenging to follow for me, too.

Question. Are you asking @eLod to measure impedence of each door switch sense wire to ground, from (disconnected) connector at the Cluster. See diagram attached. i.e. pins 10,11,12,13. disconnected from Cluster represented by red X's.

Precisely. Thanks for volunteering that clarification.

I see from the circuit diagram that wires from those switches also individually run in parallel to "BCM" via other connectors "MF12" and "MF22" located somewhere. So impedence test, even if Cluster connector is disconnected, will be affected by the BCM in parallel.

Yes, there may be some unknown effect from the BCM but with the battery disconnected (ideally after as long as 30 minutes) the BCM's influence may be negated.

@eLod
Note: When you are using a multimeter in Impedance (ohms) mode, the meter itself applies a dc voltage. Make sure the circuit you are testing is not live with another dc voltage, otherwise results will be strange.

Yes, never mix resistance measurement and live voltage. The battery should be disconnected given that the BCM is still in circuit.

@eLod, you have posted a lot of information. I'll have to try to reconcile what you have described with the diagram and it may take some time.

[eLod]

@eLod, you have posted a lot of information. I'll have to try to reconcile what you have described with the diagram and it may take some time.

sure, i appreciate the time and energy you put into helping me, thank you very much.

[eLod]

small update: finally i could get my way to the bcm, and disconnecting only the B connector (20pin) the drain is gone (after waiting 1 minute), while leaving everything else connected (everything in the car). after dinner i will try to measure/isolate pins, i'm guessing its the 4 (door switch) pins i already found via the instrument cluster, but gonna try measure everything i can.

[The Gonz]

Small but good update. I was hoping you'd find out a little more to go on.

[Greyhound]

@eLod
I see that connector B pin14 goes to "Tailgate Actuator" and that the "Luggage Lamp" is also in that circuit.

Question: Can you confirm the "Luggage Lamp" is really not lit when tailgate is closed.

Maybe pull the bulb if at all uncertain or to discount that completely as source of current drain.

[eLod]

so this is what we could do today: without removing anything else, finally found the bcm and how to remove its connectors and etc get it out. as i said disconnecting only the B connector (20 pin) and (after a minute) the drain went away. then tried and only connecting B (and removing A and C) the drain was present. we went into trying the pins. kept all the 4 door switches pins connected, and then we found that pin 5 connected the drain was present. the diagram says that is washer motor. so we tried to investigate the motor itself, we spent quite some time trying to get to it (its behind the front bumper next to the passenger side front wheel), we couldn't remove the front bumper, but removing the wheel and the cover finally we could get to it. we disconnected it and unfortunately the drains was still there. (also measured current going through pin 5 but nothing, also not on the door switch pins). at this point we had to start assemble the car back together as i had to come back to the city (we opened the rear tail and disconnected the wiper motor, bc when i bought the car 2 years ago there was a fix involved with that - just for completeness: there was a write cut and the motor itself most likely was unused so it got stuck, the repair guy opened the motor, cleaned it, got it going and then identified the cut wire and fixed it, the wiper works ever since and still).



so tomorrow i go back and debug further, trying to measure pin by pin, trying every combination if the drain is present or not.



btw checked the door switches, there is a single wire coming to the switch and the ground is connected via the screw that holds it on the frame (i would need to remove chairs and disassemble the covers on the columns to get to the wiring though).

@eLod
I see that connector B pin14 goes to "Tailgate Actuator" and that the "Luggage Lamp" is also in that circuit.

Question: Can you confirm the "Luggage Lamp" is really not lit when tailgate is closed.

Maybe pull the bulb if at all uncertain or to discount that completely as source of current drain.

well the drain was present when pin 14 was not connected. also i checked luggage lamp many times before to rule it out, it's a common problem (e.g. youtube videos for parasitic drain and etc.), but yes, if i lock manually the tailgate lock (eg with a screwdriver) the lamp goes off and i can see the additional drain when it is on on my ammeter.

[eLod]

just to make it explicit: only connecting pin 5 and the 4 pins for the door lock  (pins 12, 13, 14 and 15) on connector B (and connector A and C not connected at all) the drain was present (these are connectors for BCM, all the other stuff, like instrument cluster, everything else was connected).

[eLod]

@eLod
I see that connector B pin14 goes to "Tailgate Actuator" and that the "Luggage Lamp" is also in that circuit.

Question: Can you confirm the "Luggage Lamp" is really not lit when tailgate is closed.

Maybe pull the bulb if at all uncertain or to discount that completely as source of current drain.

well the drain was present when pin 14 was not connected. also i checked luggage lamp many times before to rule it out, it's a common problem (e.g. youtube videos for parasitic drain and etc.), but yes, if i lock manually the tailgate lock (eg with a screwdriver) the lamp goes off and i can see the additional drain when it is on on my ammeter.

i just blindly replied to your comment, without checking. bcm connector M04-B pin 14 is rear left door (which was connected as i described) not tailgate. bcm's M04-A pin 17 is connected to tailgate actuator on my diagrams. (M04-B pin 16 is tailgate switch, but that was not connected)

[Greyhound]

I was referring to this diagram and circuit I have marked in red.

[eLod]

so here is where we stand:

on instrument cluster connectors:
- M01-A (24p) connected only are pins 12, 13, 23, 24
- M01-B (16p) only pins 10, 11, 12, 13
- M01-C (20p) not connected at all

on bcm connectors:
- M04-A (24p) not connected at all
- M04-B (20p) only pins 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15
- M04-C (32p) not connected at all

as i said earlier current only on (red/positive lead on connector male pin, black/com lead on cluster female connector pin):
- M01-A 12: 80-90mA
- M01-A 13: 160-170mA
- M01-A 23: -160-170mA
- M01-A 24: -80-90mA
- no current on the other pins

it seems i need only 2 of the 4 door pins and one of the 5, 8 or 9 pins of M04-B for the drain to never go away (eg leaving only 1 pin from M01-B 10, 11, 12 or 13 OR leaving only 1 ping from M04-B 12, 13, 14 or 15 and after a minute that initial 160-170mA is dropped to 10mA).

also on M04-B (the 2 door pins not counted) only one of 5 or 8 or 9 produces the draw (eg it does not go down to 10mA after 1 minute, but "holds" the 160-170mA). furthermore by the diagram there is no pin 9 (it should be empty) however it is clearly connected, so we checked all the wirings, there are 3 that are different from the diagram (pictures attached for top and bottom row on male connector back):
- pin 9: this is the biggest mystery. the wiring diagram says there should be no wire here. there is an orange one in the connector in this place.
- pin 16: this should be G/B (green/black) but in reality it is white
- pin 20: this should be G/B but in reality is white/black


furthermore: bc you mentioned the luggage lamp and the tailgate actuator, we opened up the tail gate cover again, and disconnected everything
- wiper motor
- connector for the button that opens the lock (is this the switch?)
- connector of the lock itself (is this the actuator?)
- even the rear window heater
- also disconnected the luggage lamp

the drain was still present (with the appropriate pins connected on the instrument cluster and bcm), so we ruled out those

[eLod]

today i'm gonna debug further, and going to try to connect the instrument cluster and bcm door pins directly (leaving out the circuit to the door switches and back) to confirm the problem is not on that path.

i just wanted to report something odd that happened, maybe this will shed some light onto the issue. yesterday we were driving the car at night and parked at a darker place for a bit. now i noticed that the instrument cluster's lcd panel is slightly lit when we was sitting and waiting in the car, no readings/icons/anything, just a slight backlight. i started to play around with it, and sure enough i could do stuff like open and close door, or even lock the car with the remote, first the instrument cluster goes full dark then after about 20-30 sec that half back light comes back (these are all with key out/off).

i'm guessing that is what is drawing the current and we simply never have noticed it in daylight (it was very hard to notice at 10pm dark when parking in city even in darker places, went out to a full dark place and it was more clear it was "partly on/lit").

i'm trying to understand what can cause that lcd to turn on (eg logic inputs), but i think with key off the only things are door switches. as i said i will try to wire the door pins directly to the bcm to rule out anything on that path.

also just to confirm: if i connect the instrument cluster only with the door pins removed and the measure voltage between the instrument cluster connector pin (eg the pin on the cluster itself) for any door switch and the ground should that actually make the instrument cluster lcd come on and show the particular door to be open? (i know it should happen if i ground the pin explicitly, but should it happen when using the voltmeter?)

[The Gonz]

Good catch observing this in the dark. It sounds like this is the more likely cause of the drain. Your planned next steps are reasonable. I agree the likeliest stimulus for the dash lighting up again is the door circuit. Have you checked whether this 20-30 second window coincides with the energised circuits shutting down? When I park in my garage I can hear the circuit whining until it shuts everything down. This is the point at which window controls will no longer respond after the key is out.

Voltmeters should present at least 2MOhms impedance, so the very cheapest should leak 12V/2000000 = 6uAmperes. This shouldn't even register as useful current. So a voltmeter should be checking a voltage as if it is still open circuit.

[Greyhound]

I agree with The Gonz, your nighttime observation is a promising lead.
Im wondering if that LCD backlight is affected by the instrumentation variable brightness control (assuming that car has it). What happens if that is adjusted up or down? Does adjusting it right down turn LCD backlighting completely off?

[eLod]

I agree with The Gonz, your nighttime observation is a promising lead.
Im wondering if that LCD backlight is affected by the instrumentation variable brightness control (assuming that car has it). What happens if that is adjusted up or down? Does adjusting it right down turn LCD backlighting completely off?

well in that place (left to the driving wheel, on the crash pad) i have:

- a light scroll stuff, but judging by the icon i think it is rather controlling the headlight angle and not the lcd
- esp off
- isg off
- empty slot (though wires do come in the back, just no button/control there)

[Greyhound]

...assuming that car has it

well in that place (left to the driving wheel, on the crash pad) i have:

- a light scroll stuff, but judging by the icon i think it is rather controlling the headlight angle and not the lcd
- esp off
- isg off
- empty slot (though wires do come in the back, just no button/control there)

Well from that photo, I guess your FD does not have a instrumentation brightness control.
The "light scroll.." control in that panel is headlight beam level adjust, not instumenattion brightness adjust.

Edit: When you were sitting in the car in the dark and key removed, were the car lights etc also switched OFF?

I wonder if that LCD backlight behaviour is also visible when car is locked, lights off, you are outside it looking in through the window?

Also I just did a web serach and found this item, but I think the current drain they had was much greater than you have experienced. Maybe worth a quick read though:
Untraceable Current Draw on 96 i30 - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

A couple of YouTube videos re parsitic current draw which may be of some interest:
2009 Hyundai Parasitic Draw - YouTube
The BEST Way TO Perform a Parasitic Draw Test - YouTube

[eLod]

Well from that photo, I guess your FD does not have a instrumentation brightness control.
The "light scroll.." control in that panel is headlight beam level adjust, not instumenattion brightness adjust.

yeah i came to the same conclusion

Edit: When you were sitting in the car in the dark and key removed, were the car lights etc also switched OFF?

I wonder if that LCD backlight behaviour is also visible when car is locked, lights off, you are outside it looking in through the window?

yes it is, not just when locked, when alarm is on and etc. i will assemble the car back together shortly and will double check again, but yeah, we were outside the car, it was locked and the half lit backlight was there.

Also I just did a web serach and found this item, but I think the current drain they had was much greater than you have experienced. Maybe worth a quick read though:
Untraceable Current Draw on 96 i30 - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

A couple of YouTube videos re parsitic current draw which may be of some interest:
2009 Hyundai Parasitic Draw - YouTube
The BEST Way TO Perform a Parasitic Draw Test - YouTube

thanks for the urls, i will check them out thoroughly, haven't had the time yet

[eLod]

ok, so here are today's findings:

- when i connected the 4 door pins directly between the bcm and the instrument cluster the drain was still present, so i think the problem is not on the path between instrument cluster - door switches - bcm.

- i measured voltage drop on the instrument cluster M01-A connector's pins 13 (power) and 23 (ground). i ensured the drain was there, then checked voltage with meter between the battery and the pin. i checked both positive and negative sides for the battery to be sure before measuring on small scale for actual drop with the appropriate side. so between battery positive and pin 12 there is 11mV drop, and between battery negative/ground and pin 23 there is 14.7mV. this indicates to me that the current i see on these pins is actually consumed by whats between those pins (the instrument cluster, or maybe something through it if that's possible), eg there is no other consumer on those path (from battery to pin 12 and from pin 23 to ground).

- i measured impedance between the female connector pins for door switches of instrument cluster (so not on the cluster itself) and ground. on my multimeter on the 2M ohm setting scale all read around 0.425 (10 was .426, 11 was .425, 12 was .424 and 13 was .430) (just to be sure i disconnected the battery fully to do this test)

- i measured impedance between the male connector pins of the instrument cluster, specifically between the M01-A pin 13 (power) and the various door switch pins  (M01-B 10-13) to understand if there are diodes or resistors between them (wiring diagram shows diodes). on a 20M ohm setting they read around 6.8 (10 was 6.88, 11 was 6.79, 12 was 6.81 and 13 was 6.96) (for this test i took out the cluster and nothing else apart from these pins were connected)

[eLod]

i made a video about it. sry for the quality but i had to turn the brightness all the way up so you can clearly see the half lit state. everything is connected and functional. i got into the car, settled the phone into place, started recording, got out. you can already see the half lit state, but i did a passenger side door open and close. then went for the keys, bc i put it like 15m away from the car, the farthest i could get it on the property. opened and closed the passenger side door again. then after the half lit state came back did a lock with alarm with the remote.

video

edit: pls note: the video is relatively large (0.5GB)

[eLod]

Also I just did a web serach and found this item, but I think the current drain they had was much greater than you have experienced. Maybe worth a quick read though:
Untraceable Current Draw on 96 i30 - Car Forums and Automotive Chat

A couple of YouTube videos re parsitic current draw which may be of some interest:
2009 Hyundai Parasitic Draw - YouTube
The BEST Way TO Perform a Parasitic Draw Test - YouTube

thanks for the urls, i will check them out thoroughly, haven't had the time yet

well checked those. the forum thread is not really helpful.  the first video is about a bad alternator, i can check it, but my problem seems to be the cluster. the second video is about measuring volt drops on fuses, but i am way past that point.

[Greyhound]

I also thought those links may be too general for your case after I had posted them, but maybe some measurement ideas.

Regarding unexpected lit LCD, have you seen this thread on here: I30 milometer LCD backlight comes on by itself

Is your LCD still lit long after car is locked. e.g. have you viewed it after an hour since locking and taking key away?

I presume you know the LCD illumination LED, is shown on another schematic drawing "INDICATORS & GUAGES (2)" that you posted before. But those schematics are not proper circuit diagrams and not very helpful in troubleshooting IMO.

[eLod]

I also thought those links may be too general for your case after I had posted them, but maybe some measurement ideas.

Regarding unexpected lit LCD, have you seen this thread on here: I30 milometer LCD backlight comes on by itself

Is your LCD still lit long after car is locked. e.g. have you viewed it after an hour since locking and taking key away?

I presume you know the LCD illumination LED, is shown on another schematic drawing "INDICATORS & GUAGES (2)" that you posted before. But those schematics are not proper circuit diagrams and not very helpful in troubleshooting IMO.

yeah a bit too general, nevertheless i appreciate the energy and time

haven't seen that thread yet, interesting. when i first encountered the problem i simply bought a new battery hoping it will solve it (before even measuring draw), it didn't. so i'm guessing buying a new one wouldn't solve it.

i haven't checked the lcd backlight after hours, but when i first identified that there is a parasitic draw i already googled around and found out that everybody warns about leaving the car at least for half hour - hour alone after shutting it down so every module can go to sleep properly, so i did wait to confirm the draw is present after an hour without doing anything (getting out fuses etc). i haven't identified the backlight at that time yet, so i wasn't checking it explicitly. i could wait for tonight and check, i don't think i will be using the car today.

yeah that indicator & gauges schematic was the first i was looking around bc i identified the problem around the cluster very early. i measured that impedance on the cluster bc somebody else on another forum was suggesting to leave out the cluster and connect the M01-A pin 13 (power) directly to M01-B pins 10-13 (door switches) and said to use diodes between those pins bc the schematic has diodes between those pins, but also said that "It seems to me that if there are diodes in that circuit opening a door would create a dead short circuit, and blow the room lamp fuse." so he said they may be resistors and the schematic is wrong.

so i am still trying to understand if this is a faulty instrument cluster or something else. by my limited understanding i would say this is, but i really don't want to spend 100 EUR just to try it out. (i searched for the exact same part number, i tried to understand if there are different part numbers compatible with my car, but i couldn't get meaningful responses from local wreckyards and dealers)

[eLod]

just to be explicit: so my part number for the instrument cluster is 94033-2R500. i found a site which lists components. if you check my part number is for multiple configurations and for those multiple configurations there are multiple other part numbers listed as well, so i would think that my part number is compatible with all the listed configuration for it and further all part numbers that list one of those configurations (that is listed for my part number) is also compatible, but obviously i am not sure.

i tried to ask wreckyards, but none of them have the exact number nor can they confirm another part number would work ok. i tried an official dealer, they said they are not allowed to give out part numbers, if i order a new one through them i can see the part number on the invoice. they gave me a quote for 1700 EUR. i also found a local shop that sells new original factory parts and they gave me a quote for 300 EUR. they were very helpful and said they would think if i would buy one from a petrol manual transaxle one it most likely would work. i also found the exact same part number on ebay for like 100 EUR (with ~78k km). also found plenty of other part numbers very cheap (like 30-40 EUR from poland, lithuania).

i don't mind spending that 100 EUR if that is likely going to solve the issue, but i would like to perform any debugging (that is appropriate at my level) before jumping to buy a replacement part. i would have done this the first time i found the problem with the instrument cluster, but my understanding was very limited and many of you suggested to debug further and check the bcm and etc. i am trying to understand if i can troubleshoot this further, order a new speedometer or just give up and take to an electrician (when i first identified the problem i had 2 contacts, but both of them said they are overbooked/going on vacation, so i had 2-3 weeks just to debug myself while i wait).

bonus point: i tried to investigate/understand what is the situation with replacing the cluster, eg. mileage change. we are not planning on selling the car, but i want to keep everything clean and proper. obviously i can change the cluster myself and have the invoice and etc with the other papers for the car, but i can just ask a shop to make an official entry in the service book about replacing the cluster and the different mileages hopefully for some low price. if i can i would love to have the new cluster display the actual/real mileage but i am not sure if that is possible with my cluster or who is authorised to do this, can you guys help me better understand my options here?

[eLod]

so i checked the car now, it is parking since we arrived home back yday around midnight, so it is parked for at least 21hours and i am kind of sure that the backlight is on (it's hard bc there is street light around, so it's not as easily visible as in full dark, but i think i can see it), so it simply never goes off.