i30 Owners Club
GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => DIESEL => Topic started by: cbai30 on January 08, 2015, 08:02:19
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Hi guys, long time lurker first time poster...very happy i30 owner from down under.
Until yesterday....
We just got our 2010 i30cw crdi back from service (90k km, done at 89k km prior to a long road trip) and less than 72hrs later it's back at the same shop (AUD925 for the major service later!!) on the back of a tow truck. Basically, this is what happened:
- Driving home on a 30 deg. cel. day a whirring from the driver's wheel arch
- then a loss of power, and air con cutting out
- no response to accelerating, even after 'flooring' the pedal
- 'limping home' at 40km/hr
- open the bonnet, and the coolant reservoir is empty, and coolant is all under the reservoir, like green sludge/fibreglass
- steam coming from the overflow hose, and a ticking and bubbling noise
- the engine temperature gauge deep in the red
Anyway, obviously we were a bit put out! So we got road side assist to tow it the next morning, back to the dealer. The dealer were very good about it, admitted that it sounded bad and would repair at their cost under warranty as soon as possible (as we left, someone already had the bonnet open and was peering in - despite the workshop being booked out for the next four days).
They also loaned us a car from the shop floor to borrow in the mean time.
We called them back this afternoon, and they've said they're still investigating, but they think it's a 'blown head gasket or a cracked head'. They'll need the car for the next week or so they say.
What do you guys think has happened here? We took it in for service and the car was working fine. It came out and drove ok for two days, and then it suddenly started making the whirring noise...and it was downhill from there. The shop were quick to say that this was not a consequence of the service (we didn't suggest it was), but they were overly defensive on this - and it does seem a little coincidental. I can't help but wonder if someone put the wrong coolant/blend in or didn't put a cap back on properly.
As you can probably tell, I am very much a non-car person with no real knowledge of cars...but clearly in need of help! Apologies if I've broken any forum rules/made any faux pas in posting this topic (I did read the forum rules...I hope I've abided by them.)
I would be most grateful for any assistance or guidance.
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Obviously something catastrophic has happened while driving. Whatever it was has caused the engine to overheat and lose it's coolant.
When this happens, very quickly metal parts can overheat and get damaged or even destroyed.
Given that you have a loan vehicle and your dealer is prepared to rectify the problem at no cost to you, I don't think you could ask more of them. Postulating about what has gone wrong won't change what has to be done and no one can be absolutely sure what it was.
Rest assured that you will get your vehicle back in proper working order and enjoy the loan vehicle.
Did you notice the temp gauge rising at all ?
Good luck. Keep us posted on any developments.
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:whsaid:
:wttc:
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Welcome cbai30.
Terrible luck and almost unheard of failure.
What was done in the service? You said 90k was done but then said major service later.
Glad your being looked after properly.
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Sorry to hear about your issue but just shows how fortunate you are to have the 5 year warranty.
To say will be covered by warranty without approve from hy hq shows they are confident it is the result of a manufacturing issue rather than wear and tear or lapse of maintence
Ps
Was the coolate changes at this service?
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To say will be covered by warranty without approve from hy hq shows they are confident it is the result of a manufacturing issue rather than wear and tear or lapse of maintence
Or dealer trying to cover their arse.
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Bugger, God bless warranty.
I think you do have the right to ascertain what went wrong. The answers may cause you to rethink who you use to service your vehicle.
That said, if it was a stuff up, there was no buck passing, trying to blame you or fobbing you off. I respect these qualities highly, because none of us are perfect.
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Thanks for the warm welcome guys.
Yep, can't complain thus far with the service from the dealer. They have been really good, here's to hoping that continues.
The coolant was indeed changed at this service. We didn't see the temperature gauge rise until we literally turned into our street, when it started rising before our eyes. We put it in neutral and rolled into the driveway (downhill, <100m from our street corner).
RE: the service and what was done/major service - the dealer told us it was a major service at 90k., and we got a log book service done per the 5th link down here: :link: Service Schedule Tables - Hyundai Motor Company Australia (http://www.hyundai.com.au/owners/maintenance-and-service/service-schedule-tables)
I was surprised that 90k was a major and rang around other mechanics who said the same thing - we're coming from Ford Falcon which had its major at 100k.
We'll be trying to ascertain what went wrong for sure!
Anyway, will definitely keep you posted, and thanks again for the warm welcome and comments.
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You'll find that pretty much everyone here is happy to help where possible. They're a great bunch.
To me it definitely sounds like they're taking the blame for a stuff up. It seems very strange this has happened as it is almost unheard of.
That being said, if that is the case props to the dealer for getting on to it and sorting it out asap, we all have and will make mistakes.
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Maybe it was a shoddy dealer major service with coolant flush like mine:
:link: Is this acceptable after dealer service. (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=29083.msg307341#msg307341)
Ridiculous for me to find insufficient coolant after arriving home from picking up the car. I was afraid to drive it to pick up my kids. The dealer principal knew they'd stuffed up when he refunded the entire service.
If they stuffed up your coolant flush could it have caused this?
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> open the bonnet, and the coolant reservoir is empty, and coolant is all under the reservoir, like green sludge/fibreglass
Describe this some more please. Looked like fiberglass?
No water under the radiator, you see this under the expansion tank?
an next time take photo! Oh, hopefully wont be a next time :rolleyes:
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:welcum: cbai30
Very sad your first post had to be about a problem (but no issue with your post)
I reckon it is too coincidental that it happened 2 days after the service, but the main thing is that it is fixed properly and at no cost to you.
Be aware if anything motor related happens in the next couple of years (even outside warranty) you may be able to blame it on this and still get it fixed for free (just my take anyway) :goodjob:
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Hi guys, here's a photo of what we saw when we opened the bonnet on Wednesday.
I rang the dealer today for a status update and they said that they hadn't been able to get around to continuing their assessment as they were busy getting booked/scheduled services out the door before the weekend. They've set aside a block on Monday to continue the assessment apparently.
:link: IMG_20150107_173547.jpg - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5rChPV4dvCOY3NXa1YtUTVoSjg/view?usp=sharing)
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Yuck
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My guess is that sludge is what's left when all the water dissipates and steam forces out the remaining last little bit of super heated ( boiled ) coolant :undecided:
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Which pipe was the steam coming out of? Was the cap on?
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I've never seen any coolant under any conditions form a substance like that. If it did, it would be detrimental to the internal cooling channels in the head. I'll go so far as to say that isn't coolant. It looks more like a chemical reaction possibly between air conditioner refrigerant and some other material. I assume it still looks like that after cooling and time.
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Won't be AC that is totally independent from the cooling system. Its sod's law that something happens after a car as been into the workshop and later something fails shortly afterwards, I've come across this many times when i was on the spanners. Unless it had a coolant flush and it had a air pocket when refilled and not properly checked and vented.
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:lol: I know the systems are totally independent.
Hy do advise keeping an eye on the coolant level for up to 2 weeks after a flush/ renewal. Just surprised that a substance like that could be created by anything coolant associated. Hopefully, we'll be suitably informed. I do agree that an A/C failure of any sort would be highly unlikely and very coincidental.
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I reckon that if fluid was leaking all over the engine, it could only be one thing . . . Loose hose after the service and it blew off. Hot day, air con = pressure on the coolant system and if anything is loose, blown hoses can occur. GENERALLY, if the engine runs dry the temp gauge wont work until the burning oil sets it off, at which stage the temp gauge goes through the roof and wont come down, usually damaging the head gasket by the time it starts rising. Lucky for the warranty and that the servicers are being compassionate. I feel for you ☺
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I had a substance like that on the Ba Falcon when the cooling pipe that ran from the auto via the radiator corroded mixing the transmission fluid and coolant. I was lucky to catch it in time, hundreds wouldn't.
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Just read the OP again and you mentioned 'whirring noise from driver's side of engine'
this could be water pump failure, its not uncommon on some make of cars for the water pump to fail I know we dont have cambelts but when changing cambelts its always adviced that you have your water pump changed at the same time.
just another thought to throw at it
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Hi guys, thanks for the ongoing comments, much appreciated.
We rang the dealer again yesterday but unfortunately all the guys from the work shop had gone home, so we haven't had an update. Will try again today.
Mosley, I think you may be on the money...I sure hope you're on the money! When I moved the car out into the street in the morning, the temperature gauge had gone back down to 'cold', and didn't rise exponentially (noting I moved the car maybe 50-75m)
Cheers.
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Hi guys, thanks for the ongoing comments, much appreciated.
We rang the dealer again yesterday but unfortunately all the guys from the work shop had gone home, so we haven't had an update. Will try again today.
Mosley, I think you may be on the money...I sure hope you're on the money! When I moved the car out into the street in the morning, the temperature gauge had gone back down to 'cold', and didn't rise exponentially (noting I moved the car maybe 50-75m)
Cheers.
Without sounding too negative, don't rely too much on the temperature gauge. Unfortunately these things aren't very accurate by all accounts (in most cars) They often don't hit the red until the damage is done! :undecided:
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The next (best/worst) thing to an oil warning light, often called the idiot light because the damage may already be done. :confused:
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So we heard back from the dealership today. They've currently pulled the engine apart, and are looking to see if the coolant could some how have become contaminated. They intend to (this is according to the person who runs the service desk...so it may have been a lay person speaking to a lay person) to 'wash' each part separately, and then 'flush the whole system' before putting it back together.
This is at the direction of Hyundai Australia, who believed (not sure why...as they hadn't seen it...must have been by virtue of the verbal run down provided by the mechanic) that it was not the head gasket. Either way, this flushing/cleansing (ritual?) is the first step, before then looking at the head gasket possibility. To my mind, I would think you could knock out the head gasket issue relatively easily by actually inspecting for cracks, and using a level/some other device to measure for warps in the head. Again, I'm a lay person though!
Anyway, they said they'd keep us updated...we're happy they're doing a thorough job (by the sounds of it; the engine was described as being 'all in hundreds of pieces') and are content for them to take their time to sort the issue out.
Cheers.
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All sounds a bit odd, but as long as it is all documented on their files so if you have engine issues after the 5 year warranty runs out you will still be covered. Keep any correspondence or messages you receive. :goodjob:
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Anyway, they said they'd keep us updated...we're happy they're doing a thorough job (by the sounds of it; the engine was described as being 'all in hundreds of pieces') and are content for them to take their time to sort the issue out.
Cheers.
You Sir are one of the good ones. Much appreciated.
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As I stated before, the coolant wouldn't produce a residue like that without some other component being involved as well. The engine pull down is a necessity to reestablish the cooling paths. Your cyl head may be stuffed as a result of this contamination (warped or can't be cleaned) and may need to be replaced.
Do keep us informed on what the contaminant is, otherwise I won't be able to sleep at night, not knowing. :lol:
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That residue could be a chemical reaction due to the coolant inhibitor boiling. just like when you boil a pan of milk which turns to froth .
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I doubt it, as it IS a coolant and engine overheating can occur for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't want THAT reaction under any circumstances. It has already forced the dismantling of the engine. Could have been contaminated with trans oil, AC fluid due to pipe rupture, or some other component that sdissolves under steam temperature. Who knows.
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Phil what I'm trying to say is because the engine as overheated for whatever reason, the greenish sludge or what ever you want to call it could be the inhibitor in the cooling system which as reacted due to the coolant boiling and evaporating, not the cause of it to overheat the engine.
I'm afraid the damage has been made worse by continuing to drive it when he saw the temp gauge over in the red and loosing power, that's on the verge of engine seizure as the engine oil looses it viscosity and is unable to lubricate the moving parts in the engine. This could manifest into all-sorts of problems.
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Hopefully, we'll know soon. :eek:
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So we finally got the car back...the dealer rushed it to us before we drove 1000km round trip up the coast. Apparently the Foreman had signed off on it and said it was good to go, but he also said that we needed to bring it back as soon as we got back from our holiday and then again in 'a few months'. I understand that they didn't want their courtesy car driven up the hwy, but sheesh...
So, it turns out that Hyundai told the dealer to look at the coolant etc. first. Eventually, the 'best theory' was that someone had put detergent (for the windscreen wipers) into the coolant reservoir. Apparently this is perfectly understandable, as the coolant and the detergent are stored next to each other in the work shop, and the bottles look exactly the same.
Fortunately, we made it up and back down the coast safe and sound, although we were obviously on tenterhooks the whole way.
So we took it back in for the 'flushing' yesterday, and they confirmed that there were still 'specks' of coolant where it shouldn't be. I also said that the car may need a wheel alignment (following our ~$900 service that precipitated this) as the steering wheel had to be pointedly held a little to the left when at 100-110km/hr...whilst the car vibrated heaps through the front wheels.
They returned the car to us and the steering wheel was straight.
Obviously, we're a little concerned by all this and wondering what to do. We basically took the car in working fine, and got it back with the coolant going everywhere per the photo above, the engine overheating as a consequence, and the wheels out of alignment. (The guys 'rebalanced' them yesterday according to the document). We are also getting 2 different stories from the dealers; the customer interface has said it's their fault...the other customer interface (who seems to own a part share in the business) hasn't told us the detail re: the detergent mix up, and also said that the initial coolant overflow 'couldn't have been a result of the service'.
At the very least, I think I need to write to Hyundai Australia (or the dealer principal?) outlining the situation and note that at least the warranty on the car - which expires in Sept - should be extended. Everything aside, the frustrating part is that we (obviously) know very little about cars, but had a big trip coming up and sought a service ~1000km before it was due 'to be safe'. The car went in fine, and came out less than fine...and we don't even know what long term damage has been done. I've asked for a list of what steps were taken etc. and what was replaced, but that was 1 week ago and it still hasn't been done. Apparently one of the technicians isn't too good at documenting his processes...
What would you guys be doing? And what do you think re: the explanation (detergent being put in the coolant reservoir)...and what else should we be worried about as a consequence, especially in light of the overheating?
Thanks in anticipation, and apologies for the long post.
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Someone else may have clear info on the coolant/ detergent issue.
However, yes I would write to Hyundai Australia documenting everything that you have been "told" in much the same way as you have here. I would express your concern about longer term damage and advise them that if the engine suffers from any issues which could be attributed to the overheating in the next year or so, you'll be looking for redress.
cc the dealer principal.
And if you want to post the letter (e-mail) here before you send it I'm sure we'd be only to happy to offer any suggestions for refinement.
Trev
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Hyundai technicians are very well trained and record keeping is part of that training.
There will be a document or computer record detailing all of the work and investigations that have taken place on your vehicle. This is a requirement by HY head office, in order to compensate the warranty costs incurred by the dealer. It's your car and given that they have fixed the vehicle at no charge, this means that warranty repair was officially acknowledged by Hy.
I believe you are entitled to the complete investigative findings and details of repairs conducted on your car. Without this document, you will not know what was actually inspected and or repaired, which could have implications in the future.
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:wts:
We love helping with this sort of stuff and as Trev says, feel free to run the document by us before sending.
A very poor turn of events! :disapp: