i30 Owners Club

GOT PROBLEMS OR ISSUES? => GENERAL => Topic started by: constipated on March 01, 2018, 22:05:38

Title: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 01, 2018, 22:05:38
Hi all,

6.5 year old FD i30 6 speed manual i30 and problems are starting to creep in. Every issue I have had, I google and up crops someone else with the issue on this forum (clutch shudder, broken power window).

I've noticed my clutch bite point is now starting only a few cm off the floor. Which means that I have to be super careful to push it all the way to the floor to change gears. If it's even a cm off from fully down you can run into resistance pushing it into gear.

I see someone has commented that they had this problem and that it may have been a damper issue on the master cylinder.

 :link: Low clutch bite point resolution (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=41905.0)

My mechanic does not deal with a lot of Hyundai's. He's mentioned a few times he feels they aren't as reliable as Japanese. I suspect when I bring it to him in a few weeks he may just suggest a new master cylinder. I'll show him this thread.

Anyone know what the price of these might be? I've searched ebay and they don't seem very common. Only second hand or aftermarket slave cylinders.

Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Dazzler on March 02, 2018, 05:11:08
Sorry to hear that. Your mechanic might be right to a certain extent. Depending on the brand. Toyota's do seem very reliable. I know Hondas have a few quirky faults from time to time and I don't think Mitsubishis are any more reliable than hyundais, probably less so. Not sure about Mazda.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: mickd on March 02, 2018, 06:55:01
Hi,
Check out "Diesel " section ,  then "gear shift problems ".
That's about the  latest post.  👍
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 10:21:48
This is one of those questions I'd love to hear answered from @cruiserfied .

I'm still trying to understand the setup as from what I've read I believe these are self adjusting clutches. I am wondering as the driven plate reaches it's thickness limit if this has something to do with it. Mine whilst functional is starting to have that feel where there's not a lot of slip left and sometimes a small amount of shudder plus the pedal has to be buried also..
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 10:29:23
Hi all,

6.5 year old FD i30 6 speed manual i30 and problems are starting to creep in. Every issue I have had, I google and up crops someone else with the issue on this forum (clutch shudder, broken power window).

I've noticed my clutch bite point is now starting only a few cm off the floor. Which means that I have to be super careful to push it all the way to the floor to change gears. If it's even a cm off from fully down you can run into resistance pushing it into gear.

I see someone has commented that they had this problem and that it may have been a damper issue on the master cylinder.

 :link: Low clutch bite point resolution (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=41905.0)

My mechanic does not deal with a lot of Hyundai's. He's mentioned a few times he feels they aren't as reliable as Japanese. I suspect when I bring it to him in a few weeks he may just suggest a new master cylinder. I'll show him this thread.

Anyone know what the price of these might be? I've searched ebay and they don't seem very common. Only second hand or aftermarket slave cylinders.

Thanks for that link, I may try that myself. The bite point is driving me nuts and very uncomfortable . My only real annoyance with it.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 02, 2018, 10:48:40
Thanks for that link, I may try that myself. The bite point is driving me nuts and very uncomfortable . My only real annoyance with it.

How many kms has your car done out of interest.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 10:59:08
Thanks for that link, I may try that myself. The bite point is driving me nuts and very uncomfortable . My only real annoyance with it.

How many kms has your car done out of interest.

381000K, can't confirm history. has books with stamps but no detail. Only had it a short while but definitely country hwy  with lots of dirt roads. Not an oil leak in sight, runs well and all original trans and motor. No gear noise, or anything really except maybe the motor is a little noisier but in cabin you'd never know,
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 02, 2018, 11:12:25
381000K, can't confirm history. has books with stamps but no detail. Only had it a short while but definitely country hwy  with lots of dirt roads.

Well maybe that means I have another 280,000 km before my clutch really becomes a problem.  :lol:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 11:16:01
381000K, can't confirm history. has books with stamps but no detail. Only had it a short while but definitely country hwy  with lots of dirt roads.

Well maybe that means I have another 280,000 km before my clutch really becomes a problem.  :lol:

Not sure but I'm pretty impressed. Hooked trailer to it for the first time. These little diesels just keep performing, barely notice it attached.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 14:39:37
very good video and what he describes is pretty much what I'm experiencing . Starting to seem this is a common fault over time.

 :link: Hyundai i30 2007 clutch problems. Fault finding and repair. - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxxRe_OTvZw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxxRe_OTvZw
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: cruiserfied on March 02, 2018, 14:52:35
First thing to check would be the clutch fluid. Slaves can leak into the boot but not show unless you pull the boot back. Master maybe but very uncommon.
My most likely scenario would be that at 30000km+ your clutch plate has possible just simply reached the end of its wear life.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 15:00:25
First thing to check would be the clutch fluid. Slaves can leak into the boot but not show unless you pull the boot back. Master maybe but very uncommon.
My most likely scenario would be that at 30000km+ your clutch plate has possible just simply reached the end of its wear life.
Fluid checked, no leaks, flushed, no change. A number of people have recently reported similar issues and with lack of travel or what appears to be clutch disengagement issues and  less distance travelled.

In my case there does not seem to appear to be a lack of clamping pressure.

The piece I can't put together is how you end up with such a low bite point and barely releasing the clutch.

Old school was the pedal would get higher as it wore with little to none free play.

What am I missing here Tim?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Paolo5 on March 02, 2018, 22:10:49
If the original damper IS deemed to be at fault, it would make more sense to me to replace it with a new one (if it is available) rather than blanking it off with a sump plug.

Does anyone know if Hyundai has the damper mentioned here available as a separate part?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 02, 2018, 22:38:50
If the original damper IS deemed to be at fault, it would make more sense to me to replace it with a new one (if it is available) rather than blanking it off with a sump plug.

Does anyone know if Hyundai has the damper mentioned here available as a separate part?
(https://images.ilcats.ru/getImage.php?catalog=hyundai&filename=KAUSPJD0/4141611.png&hash=6d2ff31cbd133a697b38156e4dffd5e0)

   
416902H900

Not sure if that's just the damper or the whole master plus the damper as I have not found a separate number for the master yet.

I wil try bypassing it at some stage just for my own curiosity. I have seen tech bulletins for issues in other makes Like Holden Rodeo from Exedy pointing to damper issues contributiing to clutch release problems.

http://www.exedy.com.au/assets/files/technotes/TN016.pdf (http://www.exedy.com.au/assets/files/technotes/TN016.pdf)

"It has been found that disengagement concern experienced with the subject vehicles have been incorrectly diagnosed as
a faulty clutch.
This incorrect diagnosis has resulted in a clutch kit being fitted, followed by the fitting of replacement Master
and Slave
Cylinders, and the vehicle still found to have a gear selection problem.
These vehicles are fitted with a Clutch Damper similar to that illustrated between the Clutch Master Cylinder and the
Slave Cylinder.
It has been found that the Clutch Damper has been the cause of the problem, with the cup bypassing fluid and/
or the Damper Rubber compressing, which in turn restricts the fluid flow necessary to obtain the required slave cylinder travel"
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Paolo5 on March 02, 2018, 22:44:30
Now THAT was quick!
Many thanks for the exploded diagram!
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Paolo5 on March 02, 2018, 22:46:53
 :-[I just found this on Ebay by entering the 41690 part number on the exploded diagram:-
 :link: TUCSON 06-10 SPORTAGE 06-10 GeNuiNe CLUTCH REGULATOR 416902E070 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TUCSON-06-10-SPORTAGE-06-10-GeNuiNe-CLUTCH-REGULATOR-416902E070/111717116737?hash=item1a02dbeb41:g:3q0AAOSwMmBVoz1~)

It doesn't have the thread for the tube to the slave cylinder on the top (like the one in the diagram) but at least it shows how it is sold.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 03, 2018, 02:28:50
Hyundai i30 2007 clutch problems. Fault finding and repair. - YouTube

That's the best damn explanation video I have EVER seen.

Not only do I understand master and slave cylinders now but this is my exact problem.

Years ago I mentioned how I could feel a pulsation on my clutch pedal just pressing it very lightly. Maybe this was a sign the damper was already worn.

I'm going to raise up whether the mechanic can try removing the damper as a first step.

Is the plug he uses to replace the damper (oil sump plug he says) a pretty standard part that would be available to any mechanic?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 03, 2018, 03:40:28
It was a good video, top marks. He seems to have dealt with the problem.
however a 300,000km setup may also have the worn parts he talks about at the end of the vid.

tw, From my what I see in shed 2, the clutch is not self adjusting.
 If I get time I will pull a clutch off a flywheel and check that these are solid flywheels. That is why they have a damper.
Most larger diesel motors have a dual mass flywheel that smooths out the inherent lumpiness when engaging the clutch.
They are a spring loaded affair and usually fail within five years. The damper is a much better arrangement.
If you eliminate the damper you will get the vibration, but so do a lot of 'real men' who change to a solid fly wheel.  :D
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 03, 2018, 03:51:36
It was a good video, top marks. He seems to have dealt with the problem.
however a 300,000km setup may also have the worn parts he talks about at the end of the vid.

tw, From my what I see in shed 2, the clutch is not self adjusting.
 If I get time I will pull a clutch off a flywheel and check that these are solid flywheels. That is why they have a damper.
Most larger diesel motors have a dual mass flywheel that smooths out the inherent lumpiness when engaging the clutch.
They are a spring loaded affair and usually fail within five years. The damper is a much better arrangement.
If you eliminate the damper you will get the vibration, but so do a lot of 'real men' who change to a solid fly wheel.  :D
even more confused now, where the heck is the adjustment then?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 03, 2018, 04:02:25
If the damper is worn it won't really be doing an effective job at the moment. What are the potential implications of removing it?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 03, 2018, 04:03:39
If the damper is worn it won't really be doing an effective job at the moment. What are the potential implications of removing it?
I reckon the fluid will squirt out :rofl:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: CraigB on March 03, 2018, 05:55:28
If it happens to just be a worn clutch plate and not a failing part in the hydraulics then something like the clutch pedal adjuster might help get a bit more life from it  :link: Clutch Pedal Adjuster - Shark Racing (http://www.sharkracing.com/clutch-pedal-adjuster/)
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 03, 2018, 06:56:09

tw, From my what I see in shed 2, the clutch is not self adjusting.
 If I get time I will pull a clutch off a flywheel and check that these are solid flywheels. That is why they have a damper.
even more confused now, where the heck is the adjustment then?

Ah has bin an lookd massa!
Its a solid flywheel and just the usual sort of clutch driven and pressure plate.
The only truely adjustable clutch plate Ive come across was supposed to be on the BMW, but the replacement was just the common type.
As the driven plate wears, the fingers of the pressure plate protrude more, and get closer to the thrust bearing. I guess thats adjustable.  :winker:
If the damper is worn it won't really be doing an effective job at the moment. What are the potential implications of removing it?
Not much. You will/may feel a bit of vibration in the clutch pedal especially when you are wearing high heels. 

 :evil:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 03, 2018, 07:57:36
excellent tip!
I will look at that damper in my GD to see iff i can remove'it.
After i changed the push rod pin and added the bearing, the clutch engagement is a little higher...but not like i want. I will try to remove the damper and i will post results.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 03, 2018, 09:08:55

tw, From my what I see in shed 2, the clutch is not self adjusting.
 If I get time I will pull a clutch off a flywheel and check that these are solid flywheels. That is why they have a damper.
even more confused now, where the heck is the adjustment then?

Ah has bin an lookd massa!
Its a solid flywheel and just the usual sort of clutch driven and pressure plate.
The only truely adjustable clutch plate Ive come across was supposed to be on the BMW, but the replacement was just the common type.
As the driven plate wears, the fingers of the pressure plate protrude more, and get closer to the thrust bearing. I guess thats adjustable.  :winker:
If the damper is worn it won't really be doing an effective job at the moment. What are the potential implications of removing it?
Not much. You will/may feel a bit of vibration in the clutch pedal especially when you are wearing high heels. 

 :evil:
Is this a pull  type?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 03, 2018, 09:13:56
If it happens to just be a worn clutch plate and not a failing part in the hydraulics then something like the clutch pedal adjuster might help get a bit more life from it  :link: Clutch Pedal Adjuster - Shark Racing (http://www.sharkracing.com/clutch-pedal-adjuster/)
That's what I'd expect to find in most cars, an adjustable pushrod.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 03, 2018, 20:37:17
Is this a pull  type?
[/quote]

   ???  not sure that I should reply here. :cool:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 04, 2018, 06:18:07
I removed the damper yesterday but no change in pedal travel till engagement point. Is still pretty low.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 04, 2018, 06:58:09
I removed the damper yesterday but no change in pedal travel till engagement point. Is still pretty low.
Bad luck ( or good)
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 04, 2018, 19:32:42
Is not better or worse. Is the same as before. No vibrations in the clutch, but my car is 110k km only. The only improvement was when i have removed the slack in the push rod. before..i couldint engage gears. That was at 40k km. Bad idea to buy a demonstrator car!!! Now, engagement point is at aprox 5..10mm from the floor.
I will post some pictures with the things i have done there.
All the best!
Eugen
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 04, 2018, 20:23:21
Is not better or worse. Is the same as before. No vibrations in the clutch, but my car is 110k km only. The only improvement was when i have removed the slack in the push rod. before..i couldint engage gears. That was at 40k km. Bad idea to buy a demonstrator car!!! Now, engagement point is at aprox 5..10mm from the floor.
I will post some pictures with the things i have done there.
All the best!
Eugen

Eugen, to point out the obvious, there is something wrong with your system. Especially when you say the problem existed at only 40K km. Your current kms are modest too.
It is probable that we are talking about several different problems in this topic.
 5-10mm off the floor would drive me nuts.
Working from the other direction, how much pedal travel do you have before you feel the clutch start to disengage?
In same direction is there a lot of pedal free play before you feel pressure from the hydraulic system?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 04, 2018, 20:41:20
So....first, sorry for my english please! :neutral: Whwn i took the car, was at 34k km. after driving a little, i said..something is wrong, the clutch shouldint engage soo low and i looked for obvious.
fluid loss..etc. Then i noticed that the free play was pretty big, 2 cm in tip of the pedal travel. I searched further and i found out that the plastic push rod weared out and the pin welded on the pedal had also  some wear. I have installed an 10mm needle bearing in the push rod (with some filing) and i drilled out the old welded pin in place of which, i installed  an 10mm screw with nut.
From that moment, I could change gears easy, but the engagement point, from nothing, is now at arround 5...10mm away from floor at the tip of the pedal. Is still low from my view but is running ok. Much better than before. I thought that..maibe, if i remove the damper, that engagement point will go up...but it didint, is the same as before. So, removing the damper, in my case at least, didint improve anything. I think that my car, as an ex demo car at dealer here, was abused. Might be a dodgy pressure plate, even the clutch is not slipping.
I will measure the engagement distances as the free play for others to compare. Might be useful. Not to blame something which is not.
Hope this helps!
Regards!
Eugen
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 04, 2018, 20:42:45
6.5 year old FD i30 6 speed manual i30 and problems are starting to creep in. Every issue I have had, I google and up crops someone else with the issue on this forum (clutch shudder, broken power window).

I've noticed my clutch bite point is now starting only a few cm off the floor. ...

Hi @constipated ,  mate what are your current Kms ? You mention clutch shudder when did that happen and was it resolved?
Cheers G
PS your mechanic is probably a dinosaur who is still comparing the early 2000 models of Hyundai and Toyota..
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 04, 2018, 20:51:41
I will try to make an small video with my clutch pedal travel. For comparison. Imagine that before installing the bearing and changing the pedal pin. The gear engaging was pretty bad, Double clutch rev..etc.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 04, 2018, 21:11:56
@kamikazeeugen

Thanks for the reply, no problem with your English :goodjob2:
I have not come across the wear on the pedal mechanism that you describe. Especially puzzling at such low kms.
Im assuming it was the original part. Also assuming you have bled all the air out.
I have a thought that your pressure plate has collapsed, the round steel spring that does the hard work can crack,but the clutch will still work, adjustment will be out of position. But usually the clutch can be made to slip.
Given that you have modified the rod, and are obviously handy with tools, why not lengthen the rod? if you can find an adjustable one at the junk yard, adapt it.
When you lengthen the rod , if there is a problem elsewhere, the hydraulic components wont respond correctly.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 04, 2018, 22:24:23
Hi @constipated ,  mate what are your current Kms ? You mention clutch shudder when did that happen and was it resolved?
Cheers G
PS your mechanic is probably a dinosaur who is still comparing the early 2000 models of Hyundai and Toyota..

I've only done 100,000 km.

The clutch shudder I refer to relates to the issue mentioned by many with loud vibration or humming in higher gears between 1800-2000 rpm in manual diesels. I raised up this issue before end of warranty. I know that people had the issue rectified if they had clutch and/or flywheel replaced. In my case Hyundai found a flywheel out of balance and replaced that. It did not fix the problem and they wouldn't replace the clutch under warranty so I've had to put up with it.

So on top of that I've had the current issue and a broken driver's side power window which cost $400 to fix.

So,  far from my mechanic being a dinosaur, I'm the one facing all the issues from my Hyundai. I certainly wouldn't say it's been my most reliable car.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 04, 2018, 23:23:14
Hi @constipated ,  mate what are your current Kms ? You mention clutch shudder when did that happen and was it resolved?
Cheers G
PS your mechanic is probably a dinosaur who is still comparing the early 2000 models of Hyundai and Toyota..

I've only done 100,000 km.

The clutch shudder I refer to relates to the issue mentioned by many with loud vibration or humming in higher gears between 1800-2000 rpm in manual diesels. I raised up this issue before end of warranty. I know that people had the issue rectified if they had clutch and/or flywheel replaced. In my case Hyundai found a flywheel out of balance and replaced that. It did not fix the problem and they wouldn't replace the clutch under warranty so I've had to put up with it.

So on top of that I've had the current issue and a broken driver's side power window which cost $400 to fix.

So,  far from my mechanic being a dinosaur, I'm the one facing all the issues from my Hyundai. I certainly wouldn't say it's been my most reliable car.

Thanks for the reply, 60,000 miles  (100K Km) would not have me looking at a worn clutch unless the driver had a bad habit or two.
The vibration discussion was inconclusive ( as you demonstrate) . I have a feeling that it is a harmonic vibration possibly through the exhaust system. But its a guess.
The window issue is reasonably common, but not a big deal to fix. The plastic clips cost $20 and they take about half an hour to fit. Yep, $400 at a dealership would be fair. :whistler:

Regarding unreliability- disagree without reserve.

Also for the interest of @Dazzler  , @tw2005  etc
Two weeks ago, I was approached by a recovery truck operator who picks up breakdowns, exclusively for RACQ. That's an equivalent organisation to NRMA and AA etc.
He wanted to buy an i30 diesel (FD or GD) for his wife, because they are the only car that he never has to recover.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Dazzler on March 04, 2018, 23:37:31
I could be wrong, but my understanding is a lot of components are common between different brands of motor vehicle. For example the Turbo (made by a reputable outside manufacturer) Garrett. They also use a lot of quality bosch components.

They seem to be pretty well screwed together too. We don't get a lot of feedback on here about things coming apart or falling off.

There is the odd issue that crops up, but I have to agree with Gary, after owning 4 of them and being involved in this site for around 10 years, they are inherently a reliable vehicle. 
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 05, 2018, 08:28:20
@kamikazeeugen

Thanks for the reply, no problem with your English :goodjob2:
I have not come across the wear on the pedal mechanism that you describe. Especially puzzling at such low kms.
Im assuming it was the original part. Also assuming you have bled all the air out.
I have a thought that your pressure plate has collapsed, the round steel spring that does the hard work can crack,but the clutch will still work, adjustment will be out of position. But usually the clutch can be made to slip.
Given that you have modified the rod, and are obviously handy with tools, why not lengthen the rod? if you can find an adjustable one at the junk yard, adapt it.
When you lengthen the rod , if there is a problem elsewhere, the hydraulic components wont respond correctly.

Hey sorry I was  responding to another person and did  a speed read of your reply. I now see that you have been practical and made the shaft adjustable. I have also looked at the original Hyundai system on a car in my workshop. Has done 82K km. The start of hydraulic pressure starts about 1.5 cm from pedal downward action and clutch action is over about another 3 cm.  Leaves about  5cm to floor. Sorry , lots of "about " there, but  if your slave moves when the  master does , I think the hydraulic system is ok. I would therefore look at the clutch pressure plate.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 05, 2018, 10:37:15
I would therefore look at the clutch pressure plate.

By that do you mean worn clutch or something wrong with the clutch pressure plate.

I'm a bit unsure now what to ask the mechanic to check. 1. No air in system 2. Slave cylinder and pin 3. Master cylinder.

Can he assess the clutch pressure plate without taking the whole clutch and gearbox out?

Should I get him to try to remove the master cylinder damper first?

As was mentioned earlier shouldn't a worn clutch actually cause the bite point to go higher?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 05, 2018, 14:48:37
Hi! Sooo, my pushrod is not adjustable. Is from plastic. I have just put an needle bearing in the plastic rod and, hope you see in the pictures, in place of the welded pin i have pit an bolt.
(https://preview.ibb.co/c885TS/IMG_1577.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iZwENn)

(https://preview.ibb.co/gQE12n/IMG_1578.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b9sX8S)
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 05, 2018, 15:04:26
The master cylinder is also new but the pushrod is the old one i allready added the bearing.
eliminating the slack caused by that wear in the rod and pin, made my car better, i can change gears nice, in reverse goes ok no crunching, but, i wanted a little more. not possible. The free movement of the pedal between top and starting to actualy moove the slave is abbout 1 cm at the top of the pedal. So, there is ok.
I think, in my case at least, the car was abused, they stayed with the foot on the clutch long time. (beginners) Might be that my pressure plate is bad. Does not slip, but maybe is not really disengaging fully.
About reliability, I think the car is ok. Since i gotit, I have cleaned and greased the rear calipers at the handbrake mechanism, (the water gets in through the seal) and this mod at the clutch.
Ahh, changed the glow plugs twice and cleaned the intake manifold and egr. Actualy, the egr and intake was pretty nice at 65kkm. Rest....no problems, the car runs nice.
Are these minor things which are a little annoying. But compared with my older mark4 opel astra, is better.
I done a small video with the engagement point of the clutch now but is too big to attach i think.
Hope you got the ideea.
Regards!
Eugen
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 05, 2018, 21:32:14
Thanks Eugen, Understand what you have done , nice work.  :goodjob2:
Not sure about the premature wear. While Im a bit suspicious of the condition of the pressure plate could I suggest that it has always been faulty and at early KMs it required extra hydraulic force to operate it. Admit Im 'clutching' at straws here. :D

Years ago, the local Holden (General Motors) vehicles had their clutch pedals adjusted so that the clutch would bite just as the pedal came off the floor. Every time my work van came back from a service I would have to re-adjust the pedal so that the bite was higher and therefore you had less pedal travel and gear change was more rapid and comfortable.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 05, 2018, 22:01:07
I would therefore look at the clutch pressure plate.

By that do you mean worn clutch or something wrong with the clutch pressure plate.

I'm a bit unsure now what to ask the mechanic to check. 1. No air in system 2. Slave cylinder and pin 3. Master cylinder.

Can he assess the clutch pressure plate without taking the whole clutch and gearbox out?

Should I get him to try to remove the master cylinder damper first?

As was mentioned earlier shouldn't a worn clutch actually cause the bite point to go higher?

Checking the hydraulic system and air bleed will be standard procedure, given the U tube success story , I would point him toward the damper, he may not be aware of that. The plug appeared to be a quick method to check.

An initial clutch test comes down to the mechanic's experience. To be conclusive, it needs to come out.

Have a look at pictures of a typical clutch set up, note the PRESSURE plate. You will see steel fingers at the back of it, they are attached to a spring mechanism that forces the driven clutch plate down onto the flywheel. As the clutch DRIVEN (friction) plate wears , these fingers are under less pressure and they will rise up and get closer to the thrust bearing.
Therefore , in relation to pedal action, your contact point will get higher, but depending upon condition of the friction plate, bite may be lower.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 16, 2018, 08:18:27
Update:

new video of same issue in an FD i30 diesel:  :link: Hyundai i30, Low Clutch, Gears Grinding - FIXED - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRQsP-ZT6zI)

Again removing the damper appears to help.

My car went to the mechanic today. Pointed him to the videos and he stated that his preference was to replace the damper rather than remove it, or the whole master cylinder but when he checked, the damper didn't come as a separate part and the master cylinder was >$400.

So went ahead with removing the damper only and replacing with oil sump plug.

Verdict: much improved. At least a few extra cm before the clutch bites. Can feel more vibration and pulsation through the clutch pedal but I can live with that. Hope this temporary fix lasts.

Add low clutch bite point to the common problems affecting FD i30 diesels.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Dazzler on March 16, 2018, 08:20:08
Thanks for the update Con, what was the cost?  :cool:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: constipated on March 16, 2018, 08:30:35
Thanks for the update Con, what was the cost? 

The plug which replaces the damper is just an oil sump plug which is cheap. The cost was mostly labour doing the diagnostics, of getting the master cylinder out, putting it back in and refilling new clutch fluid and bleeding the system. Probably $150 or so. I had a service and brake pad replacement as well so it's difficult to say exactly how much to look just at the clutch system.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: Dazzler on March 16, 2018, 08:41:01
Thanks for the update Con, what was the cost? 

The plug which replaces the damper is just an oil sump plug which is cheap. The cost was mostly labour doing the diagnostics, of getting the master cylinder out, putting it back in and refilling new clutch fluid and bleeding the system. Probably $150 or so. I had a service and brake pad replacement as well so it's difficult to say exactly how much to look just at the clutch system.

Cheers, that's not bad considering it made a noticeable difference.  :goodjob:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 16, 2018, 18:54:20
Update:

new video of same issue in an FD i30 diesel:  :link: Hyundai i30, Low Clutch, Gears Grinding - FIXED - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRQsP-ZT6zI)

Again removing the damper appears to help.

My car went to the mechanic today. Pointed him to the videos and he stated that his preference was to replace the damper rather than remove it, or the whole master cylinder but when he checked, the damper didn't come as a separate part and the master cylinder was >$400.

So went ahead with removing the damper only and replacing with oil sump plug.

Verdict: much improved. At least a few extra cm before the clutch bites. Can feel more vibration and pulsation through the clutch pedal but I can live with that. Hope this temporary fix lasts.

Add low clutch bite point to the common problems affecting FD i30 diesels.
Right, so it's confirmed, no damper available separate? That's disappointing.

Or is it this.

416901H900  (correction) REGULATOR ASSY - CLUTCH or       VALVE-DAMPER CLUTCH CONTROL
Not available from Koraps , RHD version

What I'm yet to find is the master cylinder part number
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 16, 2018, 21:26:11
Update:
Add low clutch bite point to the common problems affecting FD i30 diesels.

Curious! The removal of the damper solved your problem, but the damper is also on the petrol vehicle,  :confused: no complaints so far.

@tw2005 you are our main man . Your clutch is low. Check for air in the line, if no improvement after a bleed , get a sump plug and report back immediately.  :goodjob2:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 16, 2018, 21:35:45
Update:
Add low clutch bite point to the common problems affecting FD i30 diesels.

Curious! The removal of the damper solved your problem, but the damper is also on the petrol vehicle,  :confused: no complaints so far.

@tw2005 you are our main man . Your clutch is low. Check for air in the line, if no improvement after a bleed , get a sump plug and report back immediately.  :goodjob2:
Easy for you to say. Any suggestions for a cheap supplier of said plug? Did not like the price of the Supercheap ones with the pretty green O-ring. Got other things on my mind like moving :wacko:

Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: nzenigma on March 16, 2018, 23:28:17
Understand, been there too.  :crazy1:
All the best. G
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: sundiz on March 19, 2018, 14:54:50
Here is a pic from EPC. It's from 1.6 crdi, but I would assume same damper might work with petrol. At least here it gives some sort of part number (41690-2H100).

(https://i.imgur.com/MCDBtwD.jpg)
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 19, 2018, 17:40:37
Update:

new video of same issue in an FD i30 diesel:  :link: Hyundai i30, Low Clutch, Gears Grinding - FIXED - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRQsP-ZT6zI)

Again removing the damper appears to help.

My car went to the mechanic today. Pointed him to the videos and he stated that his preference was to replace the damper rather than remove it, or the whole master cylinder but when he checked, the damper didn't come as a separate part and the master cylinder was >$400.

So went ahead with removing the damper only and replacing with oil sump plug.

Verdict: much improved. At least a few extra cm before the clutch bites. Can feel more vibration and pulsation through the clutch pedal but I can live with that. Hope this temporary fix lasts.

Add low clutch bite point to the common problems affecting FD i30 diesels.
Hmmm! 400 dollars? i bought mine, oem part with aprox 80 dollars. Cant be soo expensive...
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: kamikazeeugen on March 19, 2018, 17:42:52
Here is a pic from EPC. It's from 1.6 crdi, but I would assume same damper might work with petrol. At least here it gives some sort of part number (41690-2H100).

(https://i.imgur.com/MCDBtwD.jpg)
The damper is different from FD to GD. Mine is inline with the master cylinder not at 90 degrees like in FD. But the damper himself, is the same.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 19, 2018, 18:23:27
Here is a pic from EPC. It's from 1.6 crdi, but I would assume same damper might work with petrol. At least here it gives some sort of part number (41690-2H100).

(https://i.imgur.com/MCDBtwD.jpg)
that's even more interesting. Do you have access to the EPC? Is that a live version or something you have a copy of?

Also interesting to note the part number quoted is different to my source too?
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 19, 2018, 18:47:39
So you made me go back and check something, EPC quotes 416902H900 for RHD (Austrailia) not sure where I dug the other number now but Koraps don't show that part so that suggests it's unique to RHD as they are LHD in Korea.

And it quotes your version for LHD

So LHD 1600 CRDi 416901H000, 416902H100
RHD 1600 CRDi 416901H900
2000 CRDi  416901H000, 416902E300, 416902H100

also sharing the various parts too, petrol versions
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: sundiz on March 19, 2018, 18:50:35
Yeah that is from FD. I thought we were talking about FD  :-[

It might be the difference with lhd and rhd. I did not thought they would use different parts in those.

Yeah I have EPC for hyundai (older models). Bought it from emanualonline few years ago. Its a copy. Virtual image which works with VMwareplayer, like the GDS i have.
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 19, 2018, 18:52:33
Yeah that is from FD. I thought we were talking about FD  :-[

Yeah I have EPC for hyundai (older models). Bought it from emanualonline few years ago. Its a copy. Virtual image which works with VMwareplayer, like the GDS i have.

Ill PM my vin, can you see if that works please
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: sundiz on March 19, 2018, 19:16:10
Heres with tw2005s VIN.
It sure has different part number (41690-2H900).

(https://i.imgur.com/Pbk2glf.jpg)
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 19, 2018, 19:20:04
Heres with tw2005s VIN.
It sure has different part number (41690-2H900).

(https://i.imgur.com/Pbk2glf.jpg)

Oh, I want that Microcat Sooooooooooo Bad :happydance:
Title: Re: Clutch engaging too low.
Post by: tw2005 on March 21, 2018, 08:42:37
Clutch master 41605-2H920 RHD Australia
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