Author Topic: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm  (Read 2822 times)

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  • dk Denmark
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Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« February 06, 2018, 12:49:48 »
My 1.4 petrol is making a rattling sound at under 2000 rpm. Could not find anything similar here so here's the video



Have read that this could be many things like lifters (no idea what that means) ,valves, oil level, although this occurs even after a full service. Has anyone encountered this?
Am I up for an expensive repair?


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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #1 : February 06, 2018, 13:45:46 »
Lifters is the valves (ventiler) in the cylinder head.

I don't know how the 1,4 normally sound like, but it does sound like a bit too much noise in my ears.

It could very well be the lifters, but it could also be a lot of other things. These noises is very difficult to diagnose without having the car in front of you and some listening tools. I would advise you to visit a trusted mechanic (or 2) and have him diagnose.

Have you had the oil pressure tested..? Too low pressure could cause the noise as the lifters is operated by the oil pressure.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #2 : February 06, 2018, 15:29:00 »
How do I check the oil pressure?

I have had the car for 2 years and this sound has always been there. I thought it was normal at that time but lately I started to think about it. I've also used a fuel system cleaner but to no avail.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #3 : February 06, 2018, 15:41:33 »
How do I check the oil pressure?

I have had the car for 2 years and this sound has always been there. I thought it was normal at that time but lately I started to think about it. I've also used a fuel system cleaner but to no avail.

That's not a DIY job without the right tools. You need something like this, so maybe it's best to have a mechanic do the test, he will also be able to find the data for your engine.

:link: Olietryksmålersæt - Specialværktøj - thansen.dk
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #4 : February 06, 2018, 17:09:14 »
How do I check the oil pressure?

I have had the car for 2 years and this sound has always been there. I thought it was normal at that time but lately I started to think about it. I've also used a fuel system cleaner but to no avail.

That is a positive in my eyes. It could go for another 5 years without a problem. Does it perform ok? Is fuel economy reasonable?

You can get additives to quiet noisy engines. Usually a fuel or oil additive. Ask at your local auto accessory shops. If there are several, check them all out and then maybe google the products they sell/ recommend to see which gets the best feedback.

It's a wonder you didn't ask them to investigate when you were getting a service. Are you due for one soon?
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #5 : February 06, 2018, 17:48:38 »
2nd attempt :spitty: line dropout

Before I was rudely interrupted, I was writing that the microphone is picking up every noise so it is difficult to be sure.
As a best guess, your valve clearances are too wide. Given it has been going on for two years, I think your cam shaft is still bolted down, but check.  :(

This engine does not have lifters. It is overhead cam and they impact upon hydraulic lash adjusters ( HLA). It is possible that the oil flow to the HLA s is restricted.

The oil is possibly the same line as the CVVT . On the FD motor there is a "sump like" plug on the back of the head. Under that is a gauze filter, it can get blocked and mess with the CVVT valve timing. 
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #6 : February 07, 2018, 03:48:06 »
How do I check the oil pressure?

I have had the car for 2 years and this sound has always been there. I thought it was normal at that time but lately I started to think about it. I've also used a fuel system cleaner but to no avail.

That is a positive in my eyes. It could go for another 5 years without a problem. Does it perform ok? Is fuel economy reasonable?

You can get additives to quiet noisy engines. Usually a fuel or oil additive. Ask at your local auto accessory shops. If there are several, check them all out and then maybe google the products they sell/ recommend to see which gets the best feedback.

It's a wonder you didn't ask them to investigate when you were getting a service. Are you due for one soon?

Performance is OK. I get 8L/100km in 80% city driving. Have also got 6.8L/100km when I was mainly driving on the highways.
I never thought it was a problem since I am new to cars but over the last 2 years, having read a bit about them, I got curious about this noise.
An oil change is due in a couple of months. I'll experiment until then to see if any remedies help.
I got a complete service done last year including spark plug change and the car definitely got better.
Will try super premium fuel to see if it makes any difference. Currently I use regular 95 octane.
I know this car was not used a lot the year before I bought it. It had done just 1000km in 1 year. Could the engine be affected by it?
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #7 : February 07, 2018, 04:17:45 »
I think one way to gauge the engine performance could also be to see when the gear change indicator shows up while accelerating. As per the manual, the indicator comes up to get the best fuel economy, so the later it comes up, the better. On mine, it shows up around 2800 rpm

Is that reasonable? I have no idea what other 1.4 cars do.

Reading that this could be an oil issue, I am also considering putting in an oil additive for a clean up. Any thoughts on that?
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #8 : February 07, 2018, 04:57:33 »
I think one way to gauge the engine performance could also be to see when the gear change indicator shows up while accelerating. As per the manual, the indicator comes up to get the best fuel economy, so the later it comes up, the better. On mine, it shows up around 2800 rpm

Is that reasonable? I have no idea what other 1.4 cars do.

Reading that this could be an oil issue, I am also considering putting in an oil additive for a clean up. Any thoughts on that?

An oil additive was one of my suggestions.  :undecided:
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #9 : February 07, 2018, 05:06:39 »
I think one way to gauge the engine performance could also be to see when the gear change indicator shows up while accelerating. As per the manual, the indicator comes up to get the best fuel economy, so the later it comes up, the better. On mine, it shows up around 2800 rpm

Is that reasonable? I have no idea what other 1.4 cars do.

Reading that this could be an oil issue, I am also considering putting in an oil additive for a clean up. Any thoughts on that?

An oil additive was one of my suggestions.  :undecided:

Yes, full credit to you for that  :D
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #10 : February 07, 2018, 05:56:03 »
Yes, full credit to you for that  :D
And well deserved, Dazz. Here's your reward: some great news...
Eat Macca's, grow hair!
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #11 : February 07, 2018, 09:16:58 »
One easy test would be taking the aternator belt off from the tensioner and test each pulley for play. Worn out bearings in some pulley might give you that rattle.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #12 : February 07, 2018, 14:31:22 »
2nd attempt :spitty: line dropout

Before I was rudely interrupted, I was writing that the microphone is picking up every noise so it is difficult to be sure.
As a best guess, your valve clearances are too wide. Given it has been going on for two years, I think your cam shaft is still bolted down, but check.  :(

This engine does not have lifters. It is overhead cam and they impact upon hydraulic lash adjusters ( HLA). It is possible that the oil flow to the HLA s is restricted.

The oil is possibly the same line as the CVVT . On the FD motor there is a "sump like" plug on the back of the head. Under that is a gauze filter, it can get blocked and mess with the CVVT valve timing.

If the problem is valve clearance, wouldn't the noise be heard all the time? I can clearly hear it come and go while driving.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #13 : February 07, 2018, 16:30:39 »
Mate, I'm on the other side of the world trying my best to interpret a cacophony of sounds and the suggestions made by your local experts .

The valve clearance wont change. However at higher revs engine  components move faster, therefore the noise changes.

Is this a high Kms motor?
Have YOU tried to narrow down the source of the noise? If not, make a basic stethoscope out of a short length of hose and report your findings.
If it is HLA malfunction, increased revs may raise the oil pressure sufficiently to get them to operate. Therefore noise will disappear.
If that is the case, oil additive / cleaner could work to remove oil sludge. However, filters will generally remain blocked by hard particles.. The  FD model filter that I mentioned is actually on the end of the head R/H side. Have you bothered to look? Your service guys will not do that.


« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 16:36:01 by nzenigma » »
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #14 : February 08, 2018, 04:01:48 »
Mate, I'm on the other side of the world trying my best to interpret a cacophony of sounds and the suggestions made by your local experts .

The valve clearance wont change. However at higher revs engine  components move faster, therefore the noise changes.

Is this a high Kms motor?
Have YOU tried to narrow down the source of the noise? If not, make a basic stethoscope out of a short length of hose and report your findings.
If it is HLA malfunction, increased revs may raise the oil pressure sufficiently to get them to operate. Therefore noise will disappear.
If that is the case, oil additive / cleaner could work to remove oil sludge. However, filters will generally remain blocked by hard particles.. The  FD model filter that I mentioned is actually on the end of the head R/H side. Have you bothered to look? Your service guys will not do that.

The engine has done 58000 kms. From what I can hear, the noise is coming from the top part of the engine. Havent been able to identify if its one or more or all cylinders yet.

I know noise changes at higher revs, but I am inclined to believe its the HLA, based on your description.

I havent looked at that filter you mentioned either. Will get these checked out at the next service. Thanks :)
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #15 : February 08, 2018, 15:35:10 »
Ok thanks, look forward to your report.  :goodjob2:
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #16 : February 11, 2018, 10:45:15 »
If you are due for an oil change soon why don t you try to add SeaFoam to the oil. Drive for a 2-300 km and drain. Put syntethic oil and perhaps add MOS2 or Ceratec addirive to the new oil. It did help with HLA on my Mitsubishi. And although my FD 2.0l is only 45 k ... is schwduled for the same procedure soon.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #17 : February 11, 2018, 15:20:12 »
Hi endeavour, I had to look for Seafoam, it seems to be a North American product, not available here... and Europe?
In the dark ages we used to briefly run diesel in the sump to do the same thing.
I also added a Teflon product made by Nulon at every oil change. Now days, the synthetic oil (also Nulon) is doing the same thing. 5/30W will suit all components in the engine and if it is a petrol motor it will remain stable and quite clean.
If your FD is running ok, I would just use good oil, there is little advantage in having additives.
 But your experience with your Mitizi is worth noting. If the former owner of Gaurav's car was using some cheap oil, forgot to do changes and gave it little use, then sludge may be present.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #18 : February 11, 2018, 23:54:10 »
Nzenigma, thank you for the advice. You very much could be right. I was thinking  additive as to me the car is a bit noisier and sluggish compared to my recently totalled 1.6 Accent.  Started with air and cabin filters. Waiting for the new spark plugs and syn oil in 1 k km.  Was contemplating  change of fuel filter.... not sure  yet.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #19 : February 12, 2018, 04:53:43 »
If you are due for an oil change soon why don t you try to add SeaFoam to the oil. Drive for a 2-300 km and drain. Put syntethic oil and perhaps add MOS2 or Ceratec addirive to the new oil. It did help with HLA on my Mitsubishi. And although my FD 2.0l is only 45 k ... is schwduled for the same procedure soon.

I read about seafoam but couldn't find it here. I'll be using this instead (Danish site) :

:link: ServiceRens : ServiceRens 3

It's a cleaner to be put in just before an oil change, idle for 20 mins and drain.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #20 : February 12, 2018, 09:49:54 »
UK Amazon has  SeaFoam with free delivery to Denmark.

 SeaFoam Amazon UK
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #21 : February 12, 2018, 11:24:50 »
Use maximum half a can for your 1.4. Rest can go in fuel tank.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #22 : February 15, 2018, 10:31:10 »
To try and solve the rattle, I thought to clean out the engine using Liqui Moly's :
:link: Oil Sludge Flush OR :link: Motor Clean

But then came across this: :link: Engine Flush

Now I'm back to square one  :neutral:

Any suggestions ?
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #23 : February 15, 2018, 13:35:13 »
Local dealer once told me that engine flush or fuel treatment are ok, if there has not been lots of kms since last one, or new car. I would guess your car should be ok. If engine has more than 100 tkm there is a risk that cleaning will loose some large particles which may cause issues.

Have you tried different oils when it has been changed? With older cars I've heard difference in engines depending on the oil brand.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #24 : February 15, 2018, 13:44:54 »
Local dealer once told me that engine flush or fuel treatment are ok, if there has not been lots of kms since last one, or new car. I would guess your car should be ok. If engine has more than 100 tkm there is a risk that cleaning will loose some large particles which may cause issues.

Have you tried different oils when it has been changed? With older cars I've heard difference in engines depending on the oil brand.

This would probably be the first flush. I bought the car used.
And have done just one oil change since then. It did get a lot better at that point, but noise remained. Currently it's running castrol edge 0w30 which apparently according to the manual is not recommended.
I'm tempted to do a flush because the dealer I bought the car from cut all corners in putting the car in good shape.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #25 : February 15, 2018, 14:32:04 »
Local dealer once told me that engine flush or fuel treatment are ok, if there has not been lots of kms since last one, or new car. I would guess your car should be ok. If engine has more than 100 tkm there is a risk that cleaning will loose some large particles which may cause issues.

Have you tried different oils when it has been changed? With older cars I've heard difference in engines depending on the oil brand.
This would probably be the first flush. I bought the car used.
And have done just one oil change since then. It did get a lot better at that point, but noise remained. Currently it's running castrol edge 0w30 which apparently according to the manual is not recommended.
I'm tempted to do a flush because the dealer I bought the car from cut all corners in putting the car in good shape.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the flush, for the reason mentioned by sundiz. I'd just get another oil change done fairly soon with the best rated oil you can afford that is the right spec. Nothing really wron with the Castrol Edge though.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #26 : February 15, 2018, 15:34:56 »
If you are due for an oil change soon why don t you try to add SeaFoam to the oil. Drive for a 2-300 km and drain. Put syntethic oil and perhaps add MOS2 or Ceratec addirive to the new oil. It did help with HLA on my Mitsubishi. And although my FD 2.0l is only 45 k ... is schwduled for the same procedure soon.

I read about seafoam but couldn't find it here. I'll be using this instead (Danish site) :

:link: ServiceRens : ServiceRens 3

It's a cleaner to be put in just before an oil change, idle for 20 mins and drain.

Hi,
If you going to use this or any other treatment before dropping oil, might pay to change filter first,  treat and drop oil and replace filter .👍
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #27 : February 15, 2018, 16:54:33 »
the dealer I bought the car from cut all corners in putting the car in good shape.

 :wacko: :wacko:
What corners? Its only done 58,000km (36,250 miles)  :crazy1:

Mate you've got advice here that something is probably amiss, be it sludge or mechanical. Get off Ass and change filter ,flush , change filter and use 5/30w synthetic oil.  If it still rattles find an experienced mechanic.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #28 : February 16, 2018, 07:34:08 »

 :wacko: :wacko:
What corners? Its only done 58,000km (36,250 miles)  :crazy1:


The car was unused for a year before I bought it. Surely it must have had some effect on the engine and fuel system.
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Re: Engine rattling at under 2000 rpm
« Reply #29 : February 16, 2018, 11:28:24 »
Modern gasolines preserve poorly. They will go bad after few months without additional preservatives. I do not know what oil they recommend for your engine, but I would try synthetic "better quality" 5w-30, like nzenigma said, if 5w-30 is ok for the engine. Also I would use fuel system cleaner for few fill ups. Personally I use redline fuel system additive all the time.
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