i30 1.6 CRDi FB AU engine (2010) into a 2008 i30

Dilbert · **May 25, 2018, 00:21:49**

Hi folks, I had a little search around and thought best maybe to just jump straight in. I doubt anyone's been this foolish.
This motors already in the 2008 car (excuse my ignorance on this Hundy business/models etc ..but I'll do my best) when I found that you shouldn't believe wreckers :-) This newer AU (2010) engine has a different fuel rail without the sensor on the rhside/drivers end of the fuel rail.
The rest plugs up okay but leave me with this one plug over.
Fuel rail is slightly different for obvious reason ...is different.

Excuse my forward but would anyone have any clues before I ring the dealer which I'm peeved to do. Changed a few looms in different cars over the years having been caught before. Was thinking I'd grown out of making mistakes like that ...apparently not.

has been a great little car and my wife loved it so much she did 360,000 ks before it threw it in. She wants it back she tells me. ..the runners only done 77thou ...was a good idea until this happened. ;-)

have the VINs of both but thought this is enough info ..probably too much.

Dazzler · **Reply #1: May 25, 2018, 02:43:44**

The two moderators on this section are pretty cluey. Hopefully they will have some ideas.

The 2010 must be a U2 motor which was married to a 6 speed manual trans instead of a 5 speed, but that wouldn't explain this difference...

Being they are both FD diesel motors I can understand you expecting a fairly simple switch.

Dilbert · **Reply #2: May 25, 2018, 03:08:39**

Thanks Dazzler, was looking across who's who and I see most own a few of these things. tw2005 has a few of each I see :-D I'm twenty years out of the business and trying to give up scratching my head over automotive problems ...or maybe I should just do my homework a little better and avoid them.
Though life would be boring if it was that easy.

The only difference in this loom is the extra plug for this missing sensor. This missing sensor lead off the old engine (the lead I have over) has only one pin in it. So I am wondering if it is an overpressure &/or underpressure sensor that has become redundant in this later model engine.

Lets see what the experts have to say.

tw2005 · **Reply #3: May 25, 2018, 03:47:23**

VINs are helpful as I can then pinpoint exactly what was fitted and what variant. yes there was a production run change on a number of items including the fuel rail.

solutions would be:

to use the old rail
Find a wreck and alter harnesses but if you're not into electrical work that may be a bad option.
Only just got home and the brain is flat but I'll see if I can dribble info out so we can piece together the items.

Was it Turbo failure?

tw2005 · **Reply #4: May 25, 2018, 04:12:12**

pre 08 Jul 08 had this rail

314002A410

Post this

Both rails have a pressure sensor 314014A400

The old version which is your original has an extra part that the harnes goes to and is:

314022A400

REGULATOR - RAIL PRESSURE

I think best option (only option)is swapover the rail at this stage

Dazzler · **Reply #5: May 25, 2018, 04:17:22**

@tw2005 I usually only say this to myself, but f**k you're good!

Dilbert · **Reply #6: May 25, 2018, 04:32:37**

thank you tw2005, I'll absorb what you have put here. Being this switcharoo can be confusing. I have no qualms about electrical ..but switching the rail sounds like the easiest. I'm just enjoying the moment having found someone to talk to about this.
I'll go back and have a read ....the car which is much used up and down the road to townsville/daughters .....chucked it in when lent to our son. Death rattles ...will pull it down after I sort this other.
I have since emptied the water trap etc ....thought at first that had stopped her ...happens often apparently.

I won't discard the motor out of hand .....is covered etc.

back to the problem ....I'll go have a look at what I'm up against to swap this rail over ....can't be too hard though it is aged. No hurry at this stage as I'm resolved to it being a w/end job.
cars not actually here ....I'll scoot over and check out what I'm up against. (on a mates hoist and he wants it gone I'm sure)

tw2005 · **Reply #7: May 25, 2018, 04:46:39**

Quote from: Dilbert on May 25, 2018, 04:32:37

thank you tw2005, I'll absorb what you have put here. Being this switcharoo can be confusing. I have no qualms about electrical ..but switching the rail sounds like the easiest. I'm just enjoying the moment having found someone to talk to about this.
I'll go back and have a read ....the car which is much used up and down the road to townsville/daughters .....chucked it in when lent to our son. Death rattles ...will pull it down after I sort this other.
I have since emptied the water trap etc ....thought at first that had stopped her ...happens often apparently.

I won't discard the motor out of hand .....is covered etc.

back to the problem ....I'll go have a look at what I'm up against to swap this rail over ....can't be too hard though it is aged. No hurry at this stage as I'm resolved to it being a w/end job.
cars not actually here ....I'll scoot over and check out what I'm up against. (on a mates hoist and he wants it gone I'm sure)

originally i was expecting an item just relocated but seeing that the regulator has been deleted in production not moved this would also mean the ECU will be looking for that regulator on your car where on the 2010 there's no connection so that ECU will also be different.

Yeah, it looks cruddy on the outside but on the inside it's likely just like new. Don't know much about High pressure diesel rails but i believe you need to be very carefully if they're still pressurized cracking those nuts. Don't know if they are single use either but torque is 24.5 - 28.4 Nm for the pipe nuts

tw2005 · **Reply #8: May 25, 2018, 04:49:27**

Actually just spotted 2 more potential problems if my images are correct with some hose fittings?

Dilbert · **Reply #9: May 25, 2018, 04:54:27**

Thanks for that also. I'm not that familiar with diesels either ..being I've always avoid the smelly bits. But I'll treat them like hydraulic fitting (which they are I suppose) and we should be good. No rush yet though ...just considering whether to float her home and nearer you blokes :-D could be a plan if my grandson hadn't left his bomb on the car trailer. as I said plenty of time. I'll go check out the engine with a rail swap in mind.

I'll check out the rest of the plumbing while I'm there .....I see the return line takes another route for instance.

tw2005 · **Reply #10: May 25, 2018, 05:02:05**

Yeah, you've got some extra work to do with the fuel lines , take pictures as you work in case you have to reverse something

tw2005 · **Reply #11: May 25, 2018, 05:18:26**

2010

Early 2008

Dilbert · **Reply #12: May 25, 2018, 07:51:12**

I see you've loaded some pics ..again thank you tw2005. I think I have misled myself as well as everyone else.

The plug on the 2008/early seems be the supply to fuse box behind the rh headlight. Which also includes relays for the glow plugs etc.
The later model must have the supply for this relay/fuse box from somewhere else ,...I am about to take a multimeter and go trace these wires.
what I haven't been clear about is the fact I swapped out the major loom and it all plugged up as was. Just this one (what I believe is ) power supply/wire/thick white one .......but I'll know more when I trace the glow plugs back to make sure I'm on the right track.
Is those two leads ...one coming up from the glows 100mm to the plug ...then off to the control box. The one next to that plug is what I think is the supply TO that fuse box.

I don't think it is anything to do with the rail ....just misled being there is just one lead over ...I think it is the power supply to this remote fuse box......

I'll do a pic and circle it when I get back ...really need to bring the thing home :gaah:
please be patient while I gather the info I can .....those earlier pics set me straight tw2005 /gave the explanation of what those two bits were ....think we may not have to swap out anything but quite possibly the ecu itself .....first things first.
later :wave:

sorry to do your heads in with my change of direction ....I was trying not to be that woody.

tw2005 · **Reply #13: May 25, 2018, 08:12:33**

If you do that then there's more work including the smartra and that's not fun to get to,

tw2005 · **Reply #14: May 25, 2018, 08:13:05**

I'm thinking your car is manual and the donor is AUTO?

Dilbert · **Reply #15: May 25, 2018, 08:26:53**

Quote from: tw2005 on May 25, 2018, 08:13:05

I'm thinking your car is manual and the donor is AUTO?

other way around ....the 2008 is the auto ....the 2010 I need check ... I'll go see what was trashed off the back of it ...my mate stripped the back off it and I'll eyeball the bits before I speak.

I can see where you are coming from ....but I do think this heavy lead (big fat one it is) is a supply.

tw2005 · **Reply #16: May 25, 2018, 08:41:51**

I can't work it out then. My march 2008 manual i see 3 harnesses in that area where you have that spare. On my 2010 Auto I don't.

that cable plugs into a connector all 3 are mounted together on a bracket where the glow lead is, then it travels within the cable enclosure and likely exits on the transmission side.

The original harness is attached to the old engine, that should give some clues but I'd be inclined to swap all harness from old engine to new.

tw2005 · **Reply #17: May 25, 2018, 08:47:46**

Dilbert · **Reply #18: May 26, 2018, 05:24:24**

I've now traced that wire and it goes to an extra glowplug.
I have the vehicle and old engine here now and enclosed a string of pic ....not sure how this works so have scribbled on most so they are self explanatory.
Established for sure that both were autos. The engine loom on the 2010 had auto plugs that all found a home.

This extra glowplug I don't imagine has much to do with the computer ....but I imagine that I will still need the later ECU maybe.
I'll go back and have a read but wanted these pics up for you to see what I'm on about.

This is where the plug/white wire exits the loom under the inlet and goes to the glowplug in the inlet block on the 2008 model

I can see this is going to get interesting.

http://www.auto-diagnostics.info/pdf/hicom-manual-keys-en.pdf

Dazzler · **Reply #19: May 26, 2018, 05:44:07**

This is an interesting thread. Look forward to a happy ending.

Dilbert · **Reply #20: May 26, 2018, 05:59:58**

Has been a comedy of errors so far Dazzler :-D but haven't seen any need to get out of shape yet. Too damn old for that.

I know the lads at Mr Minute and I can see a visit may be in order. Now I have traced the wire and satisfied myself exactly where it goes I can see that will be no issue. The computer may care however, though I can't see how it would know (the relay will close but the power will go no where)
I have the i30 on charge and will turn the key a little later. I'm thinking we may get a key symbol which will tell me that I need go see Mr Minute and extract a few codes. I think I need a 2010 ecu maybe ..we will see. Need read back as tw2005 spoke about the when and what of it.
later and thank you all.

Dilbert · **Reply #21: May 26, 2018, 06:17:05**

Quote from: tw2005 on May 25, 2018, 08:41:51

............................. but I'd be inclined to swap all harness from old engine to new.

Now you are loosing me :-D that's the last choice ..just before the scrap merchant :-D

Dilbert · **Reply #22: May 28, 2018, 08:08:30**

Been reading up about this and apparently.........
Every diesel injector has slightly different characteristics and the engine PCM needs to be told about the characteristics of each injector on the engine. The injectors are tested and given a coding number at manufacture. The coding is entered into the engine PCM using the diagnostic scan tool and this allows the PCM to alter the firing time of the injector slightly to compensate for the differences between injectors.
You don't need the dealer tool to enter the coding, but you wont be able to do it with a generic OBD scan tool. Most professional scan tools are able to code injectors...but easiest is off to the dealer.
I do believe this is my problem ...the rest is incidental. I only just established this after going through every other possibility. The old ECU with the later engine will be fine, just needs a talkin' to.
Does that make any sense to anyone here?? I'm lost with this stuff.

tw2005 · **Reply #23: May 28, 2018, 08:29:08**

Quote from: Dilbert on May 28, 2018, 08:08:30

Been reading up about this and apparently.........
Every diesel injector has slightly different characteristics and the engine PCM needs to be told about the characteristics of each injector on the engine. The injectors are tested and given a coding number at manufacture. The coding is entered into the engine PCM using the diagnostic scan tool and this allows the PCM to alter the firing time of the injector slightly to compensate for the differences between injectors.
You don't need the dealer tool to enter the coding, but you wont be able to do it with a generic OBD scan tool. Most professional scan tools are able to code injectors...but easiest is off to the dealer.
I do believe this is my problem ...the rest is incidental. I only just established this after going through every other possibility. The old ECU with the later engine will be fine, just needs a talkin' to.
Does that make any sense to anyone here?? I'm lost with this stuff.

Not making much sense because I don't know what the "problem" is. I doubt coding the injectors will yield any noticeable difference. When I did mine nothing obvious to the human senses. I was over at @nzenigma trying to work out the 5th Glow plug which is an interesting term. looks like some kind of heater but not a glow plug and not something i can find any info on.

nzenigma · **Reply #24: May 28, 2018, 22:38:33**

Just checked the dates of the two motors you looked at Gerard---2009 & 2010. The so call 5th glow plug is a preheat element in the air intake. Not going to be relevant in this engine swap.

Quick read backwards tells me @Dilbert is over thinking this swap. The new loom or wiring that came with the motor, should eventually plug into his old ECU. As you say the injectors will work ok and can be remapped if required. There are a few simplifications in wiring and fuel lines but old and new motors are virtually the same.

There is (an assumed) pressure regulator or sensor on the 2008 rail , I haven't struck that before. It would be worth checking its function (eg research). The i30 motor has a regulator / suction valve on the high pressure fuel pump. It needs to function there before the pump delivers 3000 psi to the fuel rail. The pressure sensor on the RH end of the rail 'talks' to the pump valve to control the pressure.

nzenigma · **Reply #25: May 28, 2018, 23:17:17**

@Dilbert can you read the above post and compare the 2008 -10 fuel pump and rail set up. Photo if possible. Thanks.

Dilbert · **Reply #26: May 29, 2018, 00:00:02**

by coincidence Chris the dealers work shop manager said the same thing (after I'd just sent him the VINs) "over thinking it boys!" "get it on a scanner!" I'm about to load it and take it in to 'Casey' who mumbled a few things on the phone but said 'drop it off straight away' ..and he's been recommended by the dealer (who's a little far away or he'd do the job)

I'm not discounting anything said here and if Casey umms too many times, I'll open the forum and let him have a read. This fuel rails extra sensor is the bother ......as mentioned.

I really appreciate the conversation about this and why I dribbled on. always have believed the answer is in the dribble somewhere. I'll be back ;-)

excuse calling it a glowplug ...looking for a generic to explain a preheater in the intake manifold ....that was tooo hard.