[dnalor50]

I posted this to the forum in October 2016.

"I own a 2015 i30 SR manual. The car handles well, it is quiet, it has no rattles, but it has one glaring fault which Hyundai will not acknowledge, let alone resolve.
The manual gearbox is the slowest and most ponderous that I have encountered in a lifetime of driving manual cars. The clutch must be pushed hard to the floor for each gear change. The gear stick needs to be moved to the point of engagement and then slowly eased into gear. Any attempt to do a quick change results in resistance, or a slight grating or snick of gears. The problem is most apparent under acceleration when changing from first to second. The change from first to second must be done rapidly to keep up with traffic. When going up hill changing down also needs to be done slowly, resulting in a loss of momentum. " Oct2016


After numerous visits to Hyundai I gave up as they refused to acknowledge the problem and I simply got into the habit of changing gears very slowly, but even then experienced an occasional baulk or snick.

For the 3 year service I went outside the dealer network. The mechanic agreed that the gear change was not the best and found that the gearbox oil showed a high level of bronze colored particulates. He suggested I take the car back to Hyundai under warranty.

After 3 days of testing Hyundai agreed that there was a problem with debris in the oil and the "occasional baulk/ stiff change". The tear down and rebuild was going to take 3 weeks or more, but they called me after a couple of days and said that an oil change with "modified oil" had fixed the problem. This was done by a gearbox specialist outside the dealer network.

I agreed to test the car and the gear change was silky smooth, but over two or three weeks it deteriorated to what it was before.

I am taking the car back to Hyundai tomorrow, hopefully to have the problem resolved once and for all.

[tw2005]

I posted this to the forum in October 2016.

"I own a 2015 i30 SR manual. The car handles well, it is quiet, it has no rattles, but it has one glaring fault which Hyundai will not acknowledge, let alone resolve.
The manual gearbox is the slowest and most ponderous that I have encountered in a lifetime of driving manual cars. The clutch must be pushed hard to the floor for each gear change. The gear stick needs to be moved to the point of engagement and then slowly eased into gear. Any attempt to do a quick change results in resistance, or a slight grating or snick of gears. The problem is most apparent under acceleration when changing from first to second. The change from first to second must be done rapidly to keep up with traffic. When going up hill changing down also needs to be done slowly, resulting in a loss of momentum. " Oct2016


After numerous visits to Hyundai I gave up as they refused to acknowledge the problem and I simply got into the habit of changing gears very slowly, but even then experienced an occasional baulk or snick.

For the 3 year service I went outside the dealer network. The mechanic agreed that the gear change was not the best and found that the gearbox oil showed a high level of bronze colored particulates. He suggested I take the car back to Hyundai under warranty.

After 3 days of testing Hyundai agreed that there was a problem with debris in the oil and the "occasional baulk/ stiff change". The tear down and rebuild was going to take 3 weeks or more, but they called me after a couple of days and said that an oil change with "modified oil" had fixed the problem. This was done by a gearbox specialist outside the dealer network.

I agreed to test the car and the gear change was silky smooth, but over two or three weeks it deteriorated to what it was before.

I am taking the car back to Hyundai tomorrow, hopefully to have the problem resolved once and for all.

Is this a conventional manual box / clutch arrangement not DCT?

how's selecting reverse stationary, does it grind or feel the clutch is not fully disengaging? Is the bite point of the clutch really low to the ointthe foot has to be buried to the firewall and grabs as soon as you lift ?

[mickd]

Definitely go back, oil change canmot replace bronze   

[tw2005]

Definitely go back, oil change canmot replace bronze   

@nzenigma

Bronze would have to be the synchros you'd think. Hard to believe if it's that bad they can't acknowledge it and fix it.

Even the box in my ultra high K FD is slick and easy to use, except when the clutch was not fully releasing with that dud damper valve

[dnalor50]

Hi tw2005. The gearbox is a conventional manual and the clutch works well with the bite point consistently a few centimetres off the floor.

[tw2005]

Hi tw2005. The gearbox is a conventional manual and the clutch works well with the bite point consistently a few centimetres off the floor.

Oh well, I guess that eliminates dragging clutch.  Beyond my level of knowledge .

[dnalor50]

Hi tw2005. I just noticed your post about the clutch damper valve. I presume the damper only works on engagement of the clutch, but disengagement is not encumbered ? Probably a silly question, but I didn't know such a thing existed before I read your post !

[tw2005]

Hi tw2005. I just noticed your post about the clutch damper valve. I presume the damper only works on engagement of the clutch, but disengagement is not encumbered ? Probably a silly question, but I didn't know such a thing existed before I read your post !

I'm going to get this muddled but. It affects disengagement (depresioon of the clutch pedal)of the clutch plate from the flywheel if  it fails. To my knowledge it's meant to smooth out engagement (pedal release). But when these get tired instead of the full pressure or pedal travel reaching the slave on depression it gets absorbed into this damper, resulting in inadequate travel of the slave which means the pressure plate is not fully relased from the driven plate. Clutch plate drags and so selecting gears is slow and laboured putting strain  the synchros.

Selecting reverse and having the gears still rotating and grinding or having to push the pedal through the floor and having it grab immediately as you lift are the symptoms I had in mine.

You say there's a reasonable amount of travel with the pedal before it bites so I'm thinking it's not that.

But yes, I think most if not all the manuals may have these in the clutch hydraulic cct, maybe more so on the diesels.

Just throwing that one out there just in case. 

[dnalor50]

If the damper slows clutch disengagement that could explain my problem as I typically depress the clutch and wait a second before very slowly engaging the next gear.

[tw2005]

If the damper slows clutch disengagement that could explain my problem as I typically depress the clutch and wait a second before very slowly engaging the next gear.

maybe, I  don't want to muddy the waters though. The vehicle is under warranty so you need to be careful what's done not to void it. You said you have enough travel, and you have not mentioned difficulty with gears still rotating in reverse.

I don't even know if this vehicle has one.

Simple experiment would be to unscrew the damper, and delete with M16 x 1.5 Sump plug and washer. If no change then it's not that.

I don't want to say anymore in fear of sending you on a goose chase, maybe suggest it to a mechanic and have them investigate.

Diesel and 2.0 GDI appears had the damper fitted

similar to this which I think is teh LHD version

[dnalor50]

Thanks for the help tw2005.

The gearbox can baulk selecting first or reverse when stationery. Usually I select first gear before the lights change to ensure I can take off in sync with cars beside me (but they all fly past anyway when I do the glacial change to second) !

As I am taking the car back tomorrow for service I will ask that they find the source of the metallic debris in the gearbox oil first. When the dealership examined the car, after I had it serviced outside the dealer network, they acknowledged the metallic debris in the oil. Unfortunately after the visit to the transmission specialists the written report stated " inspected oil contents and quality - minor residue consistent with normal wear" . My fear is that they will back away from their initial verbal commitment to strip down the gearbox and find the source of the metal particles.

I will ask also them if disabling the damper function temporarily would be a way to isolate the problem further, should it reoccur after the hoped for gearbox repair. They should simply replace the damper, after doing very little for 3 years, but I won't hold my breath.

[mickd]

No more verbals from dealer or specialist -in writing and put into service history on Hy system.
Hopefully all your original complaints are there -ask to see them.

[tw2005]

Thanks for the help tw2005.

The gearbox can baulk selecting first or reverse when stationery. Usually I select first gear before the lights change to ensure I can take off in sync with cars beside me (but they all fly past anyway when I do the glacial change to second) !

As I am taking the car back tomorrow for service I will ask that they find the source of the metallic debris in the gearbox oil first. When the dealership examined the car, after I had it serviced outside the dealer network, they acknowledged the metallic debris in the oil. Unfortunately after the visit to the transmission specialists the written report stated " inspected oil contents and quality - minor residue consistent with normal wear" . My fear is that they will back away from their initial verbal commitment to strip down the gearbox and find the source of the metal particles.

I will ask also them if disabling the damper function temporarily would be a way to isolate the problem further, should it reoccur after the hoped for gearbox repair. They should simply replace the damper, after doing very little for 3 years, but I won't hold my breath.

Hopefully it gets sorted. 

[dnalor50]

No more verbals from dealer or specialist -in writing and put into service history on Hy system.
Hopefully all your original complaints are there -ask to see them.

Thanks mickd. My complaint about the metallic debris is on the system as is the history of complaints about the gear change. If the problem is not resolved I will be asking the forum about consumer protection laws and how to force Hyundai to resolve the problem without spending a fortune on solicitors fees.

The particular Hyundai dealership is on its 3rd service staff changeover since I purchased the vehicle. To be fair the present people have at least acknowledged the problems unlike the prior managers who stonewalled with " it's within specification, sir "

[Dazzler]

So frustrating for you to go this long without it being sorted. I admire your patience and fortitude.

The wife's manual 2014 tourer was built in a different factory in Europe instead of Korea, but the gear change is excellent. This is despite the fact a gearbox seal had to be replaced after 2 years or so along with the clutch as some oil had leaked on to the clutch plate. 

[nzenigma]

Hi Guys, finally tuning in

@tw2005  and Mick have been on track, so Im generally agreeing with their suggestions.

Im not the driver, so have to rely on others ( not the dealer  ) to say clutch travel is correct.

 Nevertheless, while @dnalor50  feels that the clutch bite is sufficient we have still gone down the damper route, just because it has become quite notorious.
Its an easy test and fix, so lets do it then discount it....or success.

dnalor originally wrote, "The clutch must be pushed hard to the floor for each gear change. The gear stick needs to be moved to the point of engagement and then slowly eased into gear."

This does sound like poor clutch hydraulic operation, but it is also how we drove cars without, or with ratty , synchromesh.

If the gears have been clashing you will have metal fragments in the oil. Bronze  / brass is obviously from syncro clutches, there must also be steel from the gears.

If the damper slows clutch disengagement that could explain my problem as I typically depress the clutch and wait a second before very slowly engaging the next gear.

Damper is there to remove uncomfortable underfoot vibration or bounce and to slightly smooth sudden bite of the clutch. Its function is not to slow the operation of the clutch.

Before we say the syncro is bad in this box, we need to remember , if you dont bother to press the clutch at all gears will crunch so there must first be some definable check of clutch (fork) for movement at the box.

you need to measure that before and after the damper is removed.

[tw2005]

Hi Guys, finally tuning in

@tw2005  and Mick have been on track, so Im generally agreeing with their suggestions.

Im not the driver, so have to rely on others ( not the dealer  ) to say clutch travel is correct.

 Nevertheless, while @dnalor50  feels that the clutch bite is sufficient we have still gone down the damper route, just because it has become quite notorious.
Its an easy test and fix, so lets do it then discount it....or success.

dnalor originally wrote, "The clutch must be pushed hard to the floor for each gear change. The gear stick needs to be moved to the point of engagement and then slowly eased into gear."

This does sound like poor clutch hydraulic operation, but it is also how we drove cars without, or with ratty , synchromesh.

If the gears have been clashing you will have metal fragments in the oil. Bronze  / brass is obviously from syncro clutches, there must also be steel from the gears.

If the damper slows clutch disengagement that could explain my problem as I typically depress the clutch and wait a second before very slowly engaging the next gear.

Damper is there to remove uncomfortable underfoot vibration or bounce and to slightly smooth sudden bite of the clutch. Its function is not to slow the operation of the clutch.

Before we say the syncro is bad in this box, we need to remember , if you dont bother to press the clutch at all gears will crunch so there must first be some definable check of clutch (fork) for movement at the box.

you need to measure that before and after the damper is removed.

P.S. My Japanese Damper is enroute by very slow ship, likely end of month or early april fools gift.

[dnalor50]

Just providing an update to this sorry tale.
 
Hyundai have had my car for 2 weeks now and I was led to believe that a transmission specialist would be doing the required gearbox teardown and repair.

I got a call from a service rep today and they have backed away from their commitment to do the gearbox repair and want me to come in and demonstrate the problem that they have already verified and acknowledged. They have had the car for two weeks and done nothing.

I terminated the phone call and demanded that they fix the gearbox as agreed to.

What can I do to make these people fix the damn thing? My solicitor charges $250 to say good morning. Has anyone had experience approaching consumer protection in regard to similar issues?

[mickd]

Numerous Crow Calls, 
Do you have a loaner from them, if yes, park 3 blocks away and walk.
Video the fault showing or record conversations .
If possible get it out of the workshop to a quieter location.
I'd be contacting Hyundai Australia straight after this to see if the problem has even been taised for a warranty claim from them.
Count to 10 numerous times, talk calmly and smile, but  take no crap or BS .
Again take another if they have one for comparison even if it's another person's car -depressing clutch a few times can't hurt.
Get them to prove that it is NORMAL, and that ALL do what yours is doing. If the other doesn't do it, it must be faulty   

[Dazzler]

@beerman you are good with this stuff. How would you handle it?   

[nzenigma]

@beerman you are good with this stuff. How would you handle it?   

Arrange personal meeting with service manager. Take two large Maori lads with you.   

[beerman]

Sorry I have beem out of internet range on a cruise.

If they have acknowledged the fault and said they were going to repair same, I would want to find out why they have backed away from this.

Also why they had the vehicle for two weeks and appeared to do nothing?

I would be communicating via email only as I am often out of phone reception/do shift work etc (in reality you want to keep an accurate record that you can hold them to account). I would demand that they outline why they have backed away from the repairs as previously promised.

Finally my threat would to be to have the vehicle examined by an independent expert.  Point out that you have been most reasonable in having your vehicle with them for two weeks, if they can't work out what the fault is and fix it you will have it examined elsewhere and have them bear your reasonable costs of repair/hire car etc.

Before I went through all that I would give the ACCC a call re their enforcable undertaking that Hyundai signed last year.

[Dazzler]

Sorry I have beem out of internet range on a cruise.

If they have acknowledged the fault and said they were going to repair same, I would want to find out why they have backed away from this.

Also why they had the vehicle for two weeks and appeared to do nothing?

I would be communicating via email only as I am often out of phone reception/do shift work etc (in reality you want to keep an accurate record that you can hold them to account). I would demand that they outline why they have backed away from the repairs as previously promised.

Finally my threat would to be to have the vehicle examined by an independent expert.  Point out that you have been most reasonable in having your vehicle with them for two weeks, if they can't work out what the fault is and fix it you will have it examined elsewhere and have them bear your reasonable costs of repair/hire car etc.

Before I went through all that I would give the ACCC a call re their enforcable undertaking that Hyundai signed last year.

Thanks mate! Good posting and worth the wait. @dnalor50

[dnalor50]

Sorry I have beem out of internet range on a cruise.

If they have acknowledged the fault and said they were going to repair same, I would want to find out why they have backed away from this.

Also why they had the vehicle for two weeks and appeared to do nothing?

I would be communicating via email only as I am often out of phone reception/do shift work etc (in reality you want to keep an accurate record that you can hold them to account). I would demand that they outline why they have backed away from the repairs as previously promised.

Finally my threat would to be to have the vehicle examined by an independent expert.  Point out that you have been most reasonable in having your vehicle with them for two weeks, if they can't work out what the fault is and fix it you will have it examined elsewhere and have them bear your reasonable costs of repair/hire car etc.

Before I went through all that I would give the ACCC a call re their enforcable undertaking that Hyundai signed last year.

Thanks for your reply Beerman. You've made some good points.

I have logged a formal complaint with Hyundai Australia and all communication is now happening via email.

Thanks for the tip about the ACCC and the Hyundai 87B undertaking. Everyone who has been stonewalled or ignored by Hyundai over a warranty issue should google this.