[Spongey]

Car:- 62 Plate i30, 1.6 litre diesel GD Estate (UK Version) 97000miles
Issue:
Came to start the car last night outside work and the ESC light is permanently on. ESC is not functioning, tested on an unsurfaced road, can quite easily get the front wheels to spin and keep spinning, normally the ESC would intervene (and the ESC light would flash). Turning ignition off and back on has no effect, light is on as soon as the ignition is turned.

Having done some checking:

No other warning lights,
ABS still functions,
Cruise control still functions,
ECO driving gear change prompt still functions,
Brake lights are not on permanently (function as they should),
Hill assist still functions,
OBD2 scan (Bluetooth EM327 dongle with Car Scanner and Torque Pro on Android) shows no fault codes, resetting fault codes causes the ESC light to blink before returning.
Have checked fuses linked to ESC and they are fine.
Have tried disconnecting the battery for 30min but light is still on.
Don’t have facilities to test battery properly but no load terminal voltage with engine off is 12.67V, Ignition on is 14.74V (original AGM battery).
AutoStop has never worked reliably but hasn’t worked at all for over a year (it is not missed)

After reading other ESC threads the symptoms don’t seem to match any of the ones reported when the clutch switch or brake switch fails. Are there any connectors I should check for corrosion / moisture under the bonnet or behind the wheels, or any other common fail points on the ESC system other than clutch and brake switches?
It has been wet recently up here in Cumbria so wondering if there are sensors near the wheel hubs / connectors which may have got moisture in??
Only work I have done recently on the car was cleaning / replacing the glide pins on the passenger side as the car was juddering under breaking due to a corroded lower pin (2 weeks ago).

Any help gratefully received!!

Dave

[tw2005]

Well, that's a pretty good overview. Got no idea except it's likely the generic OBD2 can not read those modules.
I would have to read in the bowels of a manual just to get an idea what triggers the ESC lamp to stay on

[Spongey]

Yeah from the research I have done, I thought it may be something deeper.

Current options are:
Go to my local indi garage and see if they have a better OBD2 reader. They are fairly decent so should.
Or
Ebay have a few Delphi 150e (knock off) scanners at about £40 and from what people have said can read the individual modules.
Or last option.........
Go to the main dealer....££££..... (they have been a bit hit and miss when it was in warranty and expensive)

[tw2005]

62 plate = GD 2012-13

[Spongey]

UK 62 plate is second half (sept) of 2012, it’s a very early 2nd gen.
which I think is GD

[tw2005]

My  head is exploding with all the acronyms. Definitely ESC lamp not ESP?

[Spongey]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

[tw2005]

No, I think it exists. My i40 has that icon in the cluster too but I think ESC = TCS + ABS systems.

in over my head a little at the moment. Just no specific section I acn see on ESC

[tw2005]

[tw2005]

[tw2005]

I'm thinking the icon labelled in the schematic of the cluster ESP must be the amber ESC lamp







@nzenigma (Help  )

[Spongey]

Thanks tw, looking at the diagrams the ESC and ABS are linked but the ABS is still functioning and have no warning lights for it. With the ABS still functioning it makes me think the 4 wheel sensors are still good, which looking at the diagrams leaves the relays, clutch switch, yaw sensor and steering sensor. I am becoming more tempted to splash out on the knock-off 150e OBD reader and see if it can isolate which input/sensor it is on the ESP HECU.

(The I30 has a separate ABS warning lamp, I felt the ABS kick in this morning when I was trying to trigger it)

[nzenigma]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

[tw2005]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

[nzenigma]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

[tw2005]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

Faulty ABS sensor (wheel sensor) will shut down ABS system, conventional braking will remain.

reading the information above leads me to believe  that a defect in the  ESP / ESC system will not shutdown ABS unless the fault is within the ABS. In other words, ABS is fully functional with the other components defective and it's independant.

If ABS was at fault then the ESP system would be turned off as it needs all modules that contribute to it as a package to be functional.

Since ABS is reported to be fully functional, no ABS warning lamp, suggest wheel sensor is ok.

I'm wondering if the fault could be the HECU itself because the pump and all the other electronic sytems are part of that one unit. ( excld yaw sensor, steering sensors)

Factory level scan and any code report would be interesting to see what may be reported, if anything?

Plot thickens

[nzenigma]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

Faulty ABS sensor (wheel sensor) will shut down ABS system, conventional braking will remain.

reading the information above leads me to believe  that a defect in the  ESP / ESC system will not shutdown ABS unless the fault is within the ABS. In other words, ABS is fully functional with the other components defective and it's independant.

If ABS was at fault then the ESP system would be turned off as it needs all modules that contribute to it as a package to be functional.

Since ABS is reported to be fully functional, no ABS warning lamp, suggest wheel sensor is ok.

I'm wondering if the fault could be the HECU itself because the pump and all the other electronic sytems are part of that one unit. ( excld yaw sensor, steering sensors)

Factory level scan and any code report would be interesting to see what may be reported, if anything?

Plot thickens

OK we are agreeing on everything except wheel sensor.

Let me add this, have driven an FD with bad wheel alignment, ESP on, turned out of Hulc.... Rd and went into drift as one back wheel locked tight. Corrected drift through well recognized lightning reflex and switching ESP off.   

[tw2005]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

Faulty ABS sensor (wheel sensor) will shut down ABS system, conventional braking will remain.

reading the information above leads me to believe  that a defect in the  ESP / ESC system will not shutdown ABS unless the fault is within the ABS. In other words, ABS is fully functional with the other components defective and it's independant.

If ABS was at fault then the ESP system would be turned off as it needs all modules that contribute to it as a package to be functional.

Since ABS is reported to be fully functional, no ABS warning lamp, suggest wheel sensor is ok.

I'm wondering if the fault could be the HECU itself because the pump and all the other electronic sytems are part of that one unit. ( excld yaw sensor, steering sensors)

Factory level scan and any code report would be interesting to see what may be reported, if anything?

Plot thickens

OK we are agreeing on everything except wheel sensor.

Let me add this, have driven an FD with bad wheel alignment, ESP on, turned out of Hulc.... Rd and went into drift as one back wheel locked tight. Corrected drift through well recognized lightning reflex and switching ESP off.   

Is there video of this miraculous piece of driving? Lay off the handbrake Can't agree on wheel sensor , it can't be so.

Willing to cop a verbal flogging if I'm wrong

[nzenigma]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

Faulty ABS sensor (wheel sensor) will shut down ABS system, conventional braking will remain.

reading the information above leads me to believe  that a defect in the  ESP / ESC system will not shutdown ABS unless the fault is within the ABS. In other words, ABS is fully functional with the other components defective and it's independant.

If ABS was at fault then the ESP system would be turned off as it needs all modules that contribute to it as a package to be functional.

Since ABS is reported to be fully functional, no ABS warning lamp, suggest wheel sensor is ok.

I'm wondering if the fault could be the HECU itself because the pump and all the other electronic sytems are part of that one unit. ( excld yaw sensor, steering sensors)

Factory level scan and any code report would be interesting to see what may be reported, if anything?

Plot thickens

OK we are agreeing on everything except wheel sensor.

Let me add this, have driven an FD with bad wheel alignment, ESP on, turned out of Hulc.... Rd and went into drift as one back wheel locked tight. Corrected drift through well recognized lightning reflex and switching ESP off.   

Is there video of this miraculous piece of driving? Lay off the handbrake Can't agree on wheel sensor , it can't be so.

Of course, I video my whole day you idiot. Beard often gets in the way, so this time I cant help with your poor driving skill . 

[tw2005]

Manual reffers to it as esc (orange light, car with wavy lines coming out of it), confusingly it seems the 1st gen fd was esp I am more than happy to be corrected on any of this though!!

Same thing essentially- remember our conversation last week  FD has ESP; GD ESC.

My first port of call would be a sensor  at a wheel, especially given Euro road conditions.

ABS is linked because of  brake operation and vehicle speed, info that ESC requires.

But would ABS still function if faulty wheel sensor?

I cant see why not. Too dangerous.  ABS pump stops the brakes from locking up. In theory, if the sensors misread , giving signal that wheels have stopped, then brake pressure is reduced.

I run the Z3 without ESC even connected. Usually stop. 

Faulty ABS sensor (wheel sensor) will shut down ABS system, conventional braking will remain.

reading the information above leads me to believe  that a defect in the  ESP / ESC system will not shutdown ABS unless the fault is within the ABS. In other words, ABS is fully functional with the other components defective and it's independant.

If ABS was at fault then the ESP system would be turned off as it needs all modules that contribute to it as a package to be functional.

Since ABS is reported to be fully functional, no ABS warning lamp, suggest wheel sensor is ok.

I'm wondering if the fault could be the HECU itself because the pump and all the other electronic sytems are part of that one unit. ( excld yaw sensor, steering sensors)

Factory level scan and any code report would be interesting to see what may be reported, if anything?

Plot thickens

OK we are agreeing on everything except wheel sensor.

Let me add this, have driven an FD with bad wheel alignment, ESP on, turned out of Hulc.... Rd and went into drift as one back wheel locked tight. Corrected drift through well recognized lightning reflex and switching ESP off.   

Is there video of this miraculous piece of driving? Lay off the handbrake Can't agree on wheel sensor , it can't be so.

Of course, I video my whole day you idiot. Beard often gets in the way, so this time I cant help with your poor driving skill . 

 

 

[Spongey]

Thanks both I think it is increasingly looking like I am going to have to get the codes read with a better ODB reader.
The lack of VSC doesn't bother me massively, it is the first car I have had with it! Was very strange the first time it functioned it felt like something had grabbed the back of the car.
The Orange light is annoying and is an MOT fail in the UK, which is due Sept for this car so need to get it sorted before then.

I am quite tempted with the Delphi 150e ODB clone, will report back if I end up getting one and it works! Otherwise will report back when I manage to figure out which code is causing the ESC to fail.

[tw2005]

Thanks both I think it is increasingly looking like I am going to have to get the codes read with a better ODB reader.
The lack of VSC doesn't bother me massively, it is the first car I have had with it! Was very strange the first time it functioned it felt like something had grabbed the back of the car.
The Orange light is annoying and is an MOT fail in the UK, which is due Sept for this car so need to get it sorted before then.

I am quite tempted with the Delphi 150e ODB clone, will report back if I end up getting one and it works! Otherwise will report back when I manage to figure out which code is causing the ESC to fail.

What's that worth ? Delphi 150e ODB clone

[Spongey]

£40 so may be worth a punt, or may just run it into local indi garage they will hopefully be able to read the module code

[Dazzler]

Very good initial post Dave. If only all with an issue could be that specific!   

@tw2005 & @nzenigma thanks guys for your help so far...

[tw2005]

£40 so may be worth a punt, or may just run it into local indi garage they will hopefully be able to read the module code

Maybe, be interested in what it can do. I was going to suggest the chinese clone of GDS but it appears they are getting harder to find and doubled in price since I got mine.

[tw2005]

£40 so may be worth a punt, or may just run it into local indi garage they will hopefully be able to read the module code

Oh, one other thing. If it comes back with a wheel sensor fault. Do me a favour DON'T POST IT here

[tw2005]

Is this a manual

[Spongey]

Yes, 110PS Diesel

[tw2005]

Yes, 110PS Diesel

I guess you read the Charlie8 thread with failed clutch switches?

[Spongey]

Read it a few times but the symptoms are very different

Charlie8 had
"No lights on at start or driving ( < 50 mph )
ISG stopped working
CC not working - switches on and dash light, but can never set a speed
Clutch down when moving - RPM will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) and goto 1K if left, no less. This happens even with no ESC light on ie from start
50 mph ESC light comes on ( whatever gear )
The gear change notification on the computer not working for best mpg"

For me the light is on all the time
ISG - always hit and miss although I think it hasn't functioned in over a year
CC still works
Engine is normal
I get gear change notifications

Which is why I dismissed the clutch switch may have a look if I get chance, from that thread though it appears to be a pain to get at!!

Thanks though I had thought about the clutch switch