[Buyers Remorse]

Hi guys

About a month ago I purchased a 2014 Hyundai i30 with the 1.8 litre petrol engine. It was first registered in October 2014, has had two owners and done just 35,000 km.  It was a private sale and the car was in another city, so I had my uncle who lives there check it out [in hindsight, *always* get a professional to do a pre-purchase check]. He gave it the thumbs up and a deal was done.

The car is in excellent condition and drives perfectly, there's just this one issue. From a cold start, there's quite a loud rattle from the engine. At first I suspected a noisy valve lifter, but I've done a lot of research and am 99% sure the sound is piston slap (there's some videos on YouTube of Hyundai Elantras that sound just like mine).

WHAT PISTON SLAPS SOUNDS LIKE - YouTube
2013 Hyundai Elantra Ticking Noise due to Bore Scoring and Piston Slap - YouTube

The noise quietens down as the engine reaches operating temperature, but never fully disappears. Even when the engine is hot, you can hear a faint tap-tap-tap at idle. My heart sank when my Google searches revealed Hyundai North America had been replacing short blocks under warranty due to this issue. I figured I've bought a lemon.

Even though the car was serviced just three months ago, it didn't have a genuine Hyundai oil filter, so I serviced it again last weekend with a genuine filter and fully synthetic 5W-30 oil that meets the recommended specs. Unfortunately, it hasn't made any difference.

I've done a bit more research and it seems piston slap isn't necessarily fatal. A lot of modern cars have this issue, because during manufacture, pistons are no longer hand matched to cylinder bores. It's all about keeping costs down - just grabbing the next piston off the shelf and installing it in the next engine block that comes along the assembly line. This can result in larger piston/cylinder clearances than is ideal. Anyway, I've read that some engines can seemingly go forever, without this issue getting any worse or the engine failing, but I'm not sure whether that applies to these particular engines. It annoys the hell out of me that my well maintained car with 35,000 km on the clock sounds like a poorly maintained and neglected one that's done over 100,000 km.

I'm surprised this issue doesn't seem to have been discussed on this forum before (not that I could find, anyway). I found one Aussie owner complaining of this issue with their 2013 Hyundai Elantra. Link: ProductReview.com.au

Can anyone offer some advice? Should I just live with it or cut my losses and trade the car in on something else?

[tw2005]

2 owners at 35000K seems like an alarm bell. Does it have logbook history?

[tw2005]

Did you do any searches on the vehicle? It also would be interesting to check the engine number with what was fitted at factory. That's just my paranoia

[Buyers Remorse]

2 owners at 35000K seems like an alarm bell. Does it have logbook history?

The first owner was a business (tax advisor). They traded it in as soon as the three-year factory warranty expired. The second owner was a couple in their late 50s and they sold it because the husband got a company vehicle. It didn't come with a service book, but I'd hope it was serviced during the warranty period. The second owner had it serviced every six months by a local workshop.

I did a history check before I purchased the car. The first owner averaged 7,000 km per year, the second owner did less than 6,000 km per year. It was only driven locally in the Wellington region.

[tw2005]

2 owners at 35000K seems like an alarm bell. Does it have logbook history?

The first owner was a business (tax advisor). They traded it in as soon as the three-year factory warranty expired. The second owner was a couple in their late 50s and they sold it because the husband got a company vehicle. It didn't come with a service book, but I'd hope it was serviced during the warranty period. The second owner had it serviced every six months by a local workshop.

I'd say if it's not very bad , keep driving, if it's horrendous, how much do you lose on it or do you search for a low donor. I've had a magna V6 that was quite bad cold, ok when hot, did not get any worse and had no perfomance issues. Was not exactly happy about it but, it was used ex fleet. 60K

[nzenigma]

@Buyers Remorse

Mate, as an old hand, I think you are off on the wrong tangent.  You are hearing something else. The U tube and Farebook mob  are full of cr*p. These cars dont get slap at  35.000km

[Buyers Remorse]

@Buyers Remorse

Mate, as an old hand, I think you are off on the wrong tangent.  You are hearing something else. The U tube and Farebook mob  are full of cr*p. These cars dont get slap at  35.000km

I sincerely hope you're right in my case, but I'm afraid what you said isn't true in general. Now that I'm aware of the issue and can Google search with specific terms, I've found piston slap was appearing in some affected engines even before the first scheduled service was due. I came across one post on a forum from someone who worked at a Hyundai dealership in North America - at one point they had six replacement short blocks lined up to go in customer's cars.

Here's a local case at 55,000 km:
ProductReview.com.au

I'll see if I can film a video of my engine noise this weekend and post a link here.

[tw2005]

@Buyers Remorse

Mate, as an old hand, I think you are off on the wrong tangent.  You are hearing something else. The U tube and Farebook mob  are full of cr*p. These cars dont get slap at  35.000km

Unless it's a manufacture error.  I do remember an engineer that took Nissan to task on his 200SX and was found pistons mismatched in factory. Of course I'm not hearing anything at my end

[GaKu]

I am hardly qualified to assess this but I had engine tapping noise as well. An engine flush before an oil change helped.

[CraigB]

@Buyers Remorse With reference to to North American engines, aren't they 2ltr engines used there and not the 1.8ltr used here as you have

I'm unsure if the 1.8ltr engines have lash adjustment @tw2005

[nzenigma]

This could be an unusual case and I may be wrong. But at this stage I remain skeptical.

You could tell the mileage of Fords, especially the old Cortinas and Escorts by the amount of slap. Check the speedo and it would be over 100,000 MILES.
The pistons could be clearly rocked back and forth in the bore.
Modern piston rings last longer and put less pressure on the bore; therefore, less wear.

2 owners at 35000K seems like an alarm bell. Does it have logbook history?

NZ Cars often dont do high KMs like they do in Oz.

 From a cold start, there's quite a loud rattle from the engine.
Hyundai Elantra Ticking Noise due to Bore Scoring and Piston Slap -

The noise quietens down as the engine reaches operating temperature, but never fully disappears. Even when the engine is hot, you can hear a faint tap-tap-tap at idle.

Yet to listen to the vids mate, but will comment on the above.

True, Piston slap is most pronounced when cold and can completely disappear when the engine is hot.
the tapping at  hot idle makes me think it is something else. Generally, Piston slap noise is a dull knocking sound that will occur or increase  when you increase revs and load the motor on the road.
Essentially the piston is inside a bore that has worn oval . Acceleration causes the loose piston to wack the side of the bore more violently.
The Elantra bore scoring indicates parts failure (suggest broken rings?) A newly scored bore does not immediately indicate a bore worn oversize.
However, a broken ring or cracked piston will cause a noise.

[nzenigma]

Just watched the Russian doing your slap vid.  He is correct about noise increase on acceleration, but does no work to prove a point and ends with alot of it could be this or that. Also he has only one cylinder affected? Why? I would have the lid off and be investigating cam and lash.


Piston slap - the basics - YouTube this guy explains it perfectly.

[Buyers Remorse]

Just watched the Russian doing your slap vid.  He is correct about noise increase on acceleration, but does no work to prove a point and ends with alot of it could be this or that. Also he has only one cylinder affected? Why? I would have the lid off and be investigating cam and lash.


Piston slap - the basics - YouTube this guy explains it perfectly.

The Russian guy posted a follow-up video after they rebuilt the engine, which shows the damaged parts:
HYUNDAI ELANTRA ENGINE KNOCK FIX UPDATE - YouTube

I plan to film a video clip of mine and upload it on the weekend.

[Buyers Remorse]

@Buyers Remorse With reference to to North American engines, aren't they 2ltr engines used there and not the 1.8ltr used here as you have

I'm unsure if the 1.8ltr engines have lash adjustment @tw2005

Hyundai Canada issued a TSB for the 1.8 litre engines:

In cases where dealers receive a customer complaint regarding an engine knocking noise, dealers are required to validate the concern and confirm scheduled maintenance (oil changes) have been performed. The symptoms of this particular engine knocking condition is the engine exhibits a loud knock during start up but the noise reduces as the engine reaches operating temperature. For vehicles exhibiting these conditions we are advising dealers not to conduct any further diagnosis but to order a replacement engine short block assembly.

In regards to lash adjustment, the NU engine has roller swing arms and hydraulic lash adjusters, so no manual adjustment.

[nzenigma]

Two points. I did not say the lash was adjustable. if faulty they will create noise.

There seems to be a few problems with Hyundai's US engines which do not always come down under. For instance, the US i45 had crankshaft lube problems. Lead to court action there. The i45 did not last long here and I have seen same symptoms in Oz. Currently looking at a Kia with same block and same complaint.

@Buyers Remorse  we can chat on all day, agree and disagree, but until YOU strip the engine, its all hypothetical.
Frankly, if you have a slight tap when hot, as lots of people do, just keep driving. 

[mickd]

Okay,
 lots of video re: piston slap sounds hot or cold.
A) need to use the old " screwdriver/breaker bar/ length of steel " as a stehpiscope (? )to try and track down location of noise.
B) what does your mech think ?? ( don't go there saying what you think it is )
C) Our 09/ 2016 GD had a knack knack  when cold and a tap tap when hot  - "no fault found by dealer" -  my mech and self both  tracked  to oil pump area.
As noise was listed  on vehicle history and under warranty,  I  just went okay ,
 worry later near end of warranty.  Ran beautifully.

[nzenigma]

 

[nzenigma]

@Buyers Remorse

Just to add to the confusion, or maybe give you some confidence; I presently have two 1.8L GDs. Both have about 50k on the clock. When first started, especially in an enclosed workshop, the motors are a bit noisy, but quieten down to a purr when hot. One of them has a tapping sound for a while longer, Im assuming (and it sound like) that it is until oil gets to a lash control.

The cold noise is normal, given that the tops of the pistons need to expand. It is also why I never excessively rev a cold motor.

Good Luck 

[Buyers Remorse]

This sound my engine makes seems to be somewhat temperature dependent. Today it wasn't as bad as it usually is, but I've uploaded a couple of clips for you to watch/listen to. It's best if you wear headphones and turn the volume up a bit. If you listen carefully and ignore the normal valve train / injector noise, you'll notice another abnormal sound in the background, which is more obvious in the second half of each clip.

Video:
What's that sound? on Vimeo

Audio (better than the video):
Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

The following YouTube video sounds more like my engine typically does:
Hyundai Elantra Ticking / Knocking Sound on Engine - YouTube

[nzenigma]

This sound my engine makes seems to be somewhat temperature dependent. Today it wasn't as bad as it usually is, but I've uploaded a couple of clips for you to watch/listen to. It's best if you wear headphones and turn the volume up a bit. If you listen carefully and ignore the normal valve train / injector noise, you'll notice another abnormal sound in the background, which is more obvious in the second half of each clip.

Video:
What's that sound? on Vimeo

Audio (better than the video):
Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

The following YouTube video sounds more like my engine typically does:
Hyundai Elantra Ticking / Knocking Sound on Engine - YouTube

Ok Bro, Im working from the other side of the Tasman. This needs to be evidence based. The last clip is of a car in the open.
Your clips are of a  car in a cement block garage. The sound is dramatically ++++ reduced in the open. You also say it is temperature conscious, reduced to a ticking sound, in the shed? If so , dont worry. 

[mickd]

Must say our GD was louder in winter than in summer on start up.

[Buyers Remorse]

So I have an update of sorts.

I had a local workshop inspect the hydraulic valve last adjusters, as per a Hyundai TSB I provided them a copy of. They reported that all the HLAs are in good working order.

I also purchased a cheap endoscope (borescope) to inspect inside the cylinders. All four pistons and cylinders look practically like new.

After many hours of research (honestly, this engine noise has been driving me mad), I stumbled upon a YouTube video of a Ford engine that was making an identical sound to my Hyundai:
2011 Tundra 5.7 Bad Timing chain tensioner - YouTube
The noise becomes obvious about 45 seconds into the video. It comes and goes, just like mine.
In the case of this Ford, it was caused by a faulty timing chain tensioner.

I purchased a mechanic's stethoscope and probed all around the engine. I can hear a slight tapping sound around the area of timing chain tensioner.

Recently, I've also been getting an intermittent start-up rattle that lasts 1-2 seconds, which also points at a faulty timing chain tensioner (either that, or one of the variable valve timing actuators).

Unfortunately, replacing the timing chain tensioner is a big job, as you practically have to strip everything off the side of the engine, including the alternator, engine mount and oil pan. Imagine if you did all that and found there was nothing wrong with the tensioner!

I'm going to request an estimate from both the local Hyundai dealer and an independent shop.

[mickd]

Well you've been busy 
 Glad borescope worked well    No slap in the hole 
Hope you have a spare arm and leg laying around, because that will be the price.
Pretty sure oil pump is also chain driven (85% ). You'll need to make a check of that.

Apart from wanting "just to find it ", you could just turn radio up   

[Buyers Remorse]

Yes, turning up the radio up is one option, but assuming the timing chain tension is faulty, won't it eventually lead to damage to other engine components, e.g. the timing chain guides and the chain itself?

You mentioned the oil pump and I was wondering if I should get the oil pressure tested with a mechanical gauge? Apparently the oil pressure has to get dangerously low before the dashboard warning light illuminates, so there could be low pressure with no visual warning.

[mickd]

Not a pump failure  as such just more of a cover issue . Grab a gauge anyway, always handy.  Cam chain - maybe a simple way to check tension 
Blind Bambi there I'm afraid. ( No idea)

[Dazzler]

@Buyers Remorse

Thanks for the update. unfortunately our two most experienced volunteer technical advisors have gone quiet. There are others like Mick who often give helpful mechanical advice.

It is a can of worms and could end up being a money pit! Good luck with it. Thanks again for the update. following this with interest.