[Digby Jones]

Hello,

So I was driving to work last Monday - the oil light came on.  Always an ominous sign.
I pulled over - oil leaking out of the timing belt cover and all over the bottom of the  car, a trail of oil up the road behind the car - checked the oil - empty.
I was hoping to get it to my mechanic, who was not that far away.  So I walked to a servo and bought 4 litres of oil, put it in and started up - no oil pressure ( red light on )

The car was towed to my mechanic.  He has had a look at it, and replaced the crank seal.  He started it up, oil light went out, reved it up to 2000 rpm.  It was all looking good.  Then the seal popped out again.

He believes there is a build up of oil pressure pushing it out.  The build up should not be there.  He stated it may be a blockage elsewhere in the engine causing excessive pressure.


Has anyone had this problem before?

2010 Hyundai I30, petrol 2 litre, manual.

[tw2005]

Hello,

So I was driving to work last Monday - the oil light came on.  Always an ominous sign.
I pulled over - oil leaking out of the timing belt cover and all over the bottom of the  car, a trail of oil up the road behind the car - checked the oil - empty.
I was hoping to get it to my mechanic, who was not that far away.  So I walked to a servo and bought 4 litres of oil, put it in and started up - no oil pressure ( red light on )

The car was towed to my mechanic.  He has had a look at it, and replaced the crank seal.  He started it up, oil light went out, reved it up to 2000 rpm.  It was all looking good.  Then the seal popped out again.

He believes there is a build up of oil pressure pushing it out.  The build up should not be there.  He stated it may be a blockage elsewhere in the engine causing excessive pressure.


Has anyone had this problem before?

2010 Hyundai I30, petrol 2 litre, manual.

you know you better do a bit of a search cause this is sounding like the last one with a worn out thrust bearing on the crank. And i was again going to say what I said in that post I bet this is a manual, and......... it is.

Get your mechanic to has someone operate the clutch whilst having a dial gauge on the crank pulley or it may be that bad you'll see it by the natural eye.

Look on you tube there was a canadian that got hung out to dry after many $$ wasted going down the garden path.

If it's low K's and has book services  I reckon be worth having a go through consumer affairs. Unless it's rediculous mileage you'd have to question the quality.

Diesel seem ok, no reports I've read yet.

[tw2005]

I see you are already on this page. LOL

OIL SEAL FAILURE_ 130 motor removal

[Digby Jones]

Yes I just read through the 3 pages of comments from

OIL SEAL FAILURE_ 130 motor removal

could be it, I will bring it to my mechanics attention.

Another note, my clutch is horrible and apparently can add to this problem.  The clutch itself does not slip, but some times is doesn't seem to disengage properly.

I read up there is a hydraulic dampner that may be shot.  It's easy to by pass with a M16 - 1.5 pitch sump plug.

Thanks guys

[tw2005]

Yes I just read through the 3 pages of comments from

OIL SEAL FAILURE_ 130 motor removal

could be it, I will bring it to my mechanics attention.

Another note, my clutch is horrible and apparently can add to this problem.  The clutch itself does not slip, but some times is doesn't seem to disengage properly.

I read up there is a hydraulic dampner that may be shot.  It's easy to by pass with a M16 - 1.5 pitch sump plug.

Thanks guys

I'm yet to play with my damper, it is awkward but you have a much bigger issue so you may end up replacing the clutch anyway if the motor comes out.

[Digby Jones]

Just an update.

My mechanic has had the car for a while now, he was looking at all avenues ( and he was flat out ).

Any way, he says there is lateral movement in the crank, so the crank thrust washers could be gone.  He is going to drop the sump and check it out.

[nzenigma]

Gerard beat me to it. Belatedly read your first line and realised that this IS the GLOBAL issue that we solved a while back.

Cheers

[Digby Jones]

Update 2:

So the sump came off, definitely confirmed crank thrust washers.

The crank is badly worn.  For him to replace and rebuild is very costly.  A reconditioned motor may be over half the value of the car ( red book is about $6100 private, if I am lucky or $3800 trade in).

The best option is to get second hand from the wreckers - but that has it's own risks.  It may last 5 years or 5 minutes - when was the timing belt last changed, etc.

So, I am getting the second hand motor and maybe trade it in on a car which does not have a global issue with crank thrust washers.

Sorry guys, this is my second Hyundai and it has not been a good experience.  My wife's Corrolla is older, done 110,000 Km's and not an issue.  The oil is still gold up until the next oil change.

I will try to find a way to post images

[Digby Jones]

First image of the crank.  It's hard to see, but a big groove has worn into the side.

IMG 20180721 112714 ? imgbb.com

[Digby Jones]

What's left of the washers

IMG 20180721 112725 ? imgbb.com

[tw2005]

Great images, pity it's the worse case scenario at least no time or money wasted on endless seal replacements.

personally i'd love to see a challenge against Hyundai out of wty. Clearly they have a design issue, never had a motor do it's thrust washers. Fortunately the diesels are bullet proof.

I think If I was to swap out the motor you'd have to drop the sump and replace the washers straight up.

I've heard these motors are not reconditionable, not sure if true or notnever looked any further into that claim.

[nzenigma]

Problem is rare and seems to affect a motor with manual gearbox. A low kms auto motor from a wrecker would cover that issue. Timing belt is a minor issue and would not perplex a competent mechanic. Belt $50 + 2hrs work.

[mickd]

Digby,  how disheartening for you.   

NZ or TW , Just to jolt my brain,
Is this only the 2010 models ? , so far 

[tw2005]

Digby,  how disheartening for you.   

NZ or TW , Just to jolt my brain,
Is this only the 2010 models ? , so far 

no idea

[mickd]

Digby,  how disheartening for you.   

NZ or TW , Just to jolt my brain,
Is this only the 2010 models ? , so far 

no idea

thanks,  looks like I'll need to post rumage 👍

[tw2005]

thrust washer/bearing

03 elantra with 44000 miles thrust bearing gone cause - 2003 Hyundai Elantra

Thrust Bearing Failure [Archive] - Hyundai Elantra Forum

Thrust Bearing Failure Prevention & Analysis | MOTOR

Interesting comment of clutch in to start car. yet the diesel engine I guess seems ok

In addition, on manual transmission vehicles, the use of starter lockout systems (where the clutch pedal must be depressed in order to start the engine) adds to the problem, since this places forward pressure to the crankshaft during starting, when there’s little or no oil lubrication on the thrust bearing surfaces. Bearing manufacturers have tried to address these OE-inherent problems by adding a fine dispersal of silicon to the bearing matrix and by designing angled ramp areas on the thrust faces that help to promote oil delivery to the thrust areas.

[nzenigma]

Digby,  how disheartening for you.   

NZ or TW , Just to jolt my brain,
Is this only the 2010 models ? , so far 

no idea

thanks,  looks like I'll need to post rumage 👍

At least our wisest moderator didn't say Jeeez Dunno. 

Mick to answer your question with even more precise vagueness, this is not common enough to put a year on the car, just that its the FD model.
 I have seen U Tube footage of 2 guys in Canada having the same problem, same model but called an Elantra over there... from memory.
A couple of Americans . claimed to know about it. 
A suggestion that may be valid is that the thrust washers are from a batch with poor metal quality or have been fitted in reverse ( if that's possible).
Also, like Digby's mechanic, they assume it is caused by oil pressure and try fitting new seals then probably give up, so we don't hear about their failure.
At this stage cant pin it down to Korean or Chek cars.

[tw2005]

Digby,  how disheartening for you.   

NZ or TW , Just to jolt my brain,
Is this only the 2010 models ? , so far 

no idea

thanks,  looks like I'll need to post rumage 👍

At least our wisest moderator didn't say Jeeez Dunno. 

Mick to answer your question with even more precise vagueness, this is not common enough to put a year on the car, just that its the FD model.
 I have seen U Tube footage of 2 guys in Canada having the same problem, same model but called an Elantra over there... from memory.
A couple of Americans . claimed to know about it. 
A suggestion that may be valid is that the thrust washers are from a batch with poor metal quality or have been fitted in reverse ( if that's possible).
Also, like Digby's mechanic, they assume it is caused by oil pressure and try fitting new seals then probably give up, so we don't hear about their failure.
At this stage cant pin it down to Korean or Chek cars.

I was in the middle of a delicious apple strudel

[nzenigma]

Sorry if I had known 

Mate as usual you have done some useful beavering.
Link 1 is from a confused and confusing ex-member who has the problem on 2009. @Dazzler  Where did he live? Oz or UK?

Link 2 concerns a 2003 Elantra similar Link 3 but not sure coz I wnt to sleep.
 Link 4 is good and would indicate my point about quality and fitting.

[nzenigma]

Update 2:

 the sump came off, definitely confirmed crank thrust washers.

The crank is badly worn.  For him to replace and rebuild is very costly.  A reconditioned motor may be over half the value of the car ( red book is about $6100 private, if I am lucky or $3800 trade in).

The best option is to get second hand from the wreckers - but that has it's own risks.  It may last 5 years or 5 minutes - when was the timing belt last changed, etc.

 I am getting the second hand motor and maybe trade it in on a car which does not have a global issue with crank thrust washers.

Digby, I feel your pain, but I have to take issue on your assertion that this is a 'global issue'. The evidence is not there.

Gerard and I have spent many hours just to come up with a reason for the seal failure. The few failures we could find had never been properly repaired. By chance, we had a member with a motor on the bench and could prove the thrust bearing theory: that you have benefited from.

  How many FD i30s do you see on OUR roads? Answer: Thousands of them and none dropping oil.
Therefore, the chances of your next motor doing the same thing are less than 1000:1.

[Paolo5]

Do any of our learned members have an explanation of why the diesel variant does not seem to suffer this weakness?

[nzenigma]

Do any of our learned members have an explanation of why the diesel variant does not seem to suffer this weakness?

Hi mate? 

Well Gerard is going to say "because I own 3 and I love them".

Me, 1. the diesel motor is built to withstand a harsher form of combustion ( simply put).

2. Maybe we have never heard of any, it again being so rare as Ive said above.( guessing)

[tw2005]

Gerard beat me to it. Belatedly read your first line and realised that this IS the GLOBAL issue that we solved a while back.

Cheers

I'm confused. This is what you said and the OP simply has used this term since.Are you saying it's not Global? Or what are you saying?

Please explain?

I think the other links regardless of the fact they are earlier models does suggest the 2.0 L motor from Hyundai has had failure in this manner and would appear manuals are the high risk.

 

[nzenigma]

  Got me .

I defend myself with one word CONTEXTUALISE   

Sure we found a few complaints in North America. The rest of the world, not so far. 

would appear manuals are the high risk.

  if there is  a 1000:1 chance of failure, than a high risk cannot be suggested. 

[Dazzler]

Sorry if I had known 

Mate as usual you have done some useful beavering.
Link 1 is from a confused and confusing ex-member who has the problem on 2009. @Dazzler  Where did he live? Oz or UK?

Link 2 concerns a 2003 Elantra similar Link 3 but not sure coz I wnt to sleep.
 Link 4 is good and would indicate my point about quality and fitting.

If you mean sunnyd I'm not sure sorry! 

[nzenigma]

Yes Dazz that one. Thanks mate.

I think the other links regardless of the fact they are earlier models does suggest the 2.0 L motor from Hyundai has had failure in this manner 

Gerard, if we add to the i30 list, all the Elantras from 2003 onward, many ageing or traded, the seal issue still does not stand out.
I found a US girl who was complaining about her 2003 Elantra that always leaked heaps of oil.
The good oil advice in Link 4 is not Make or model specific when talking about installing crank bearings. The author appears to say bad practice can affect any motor.
Over the years I have replaced worn thrust washers on cars but they have not been causing seals to go South.
I still feel the oil pump plays a role with the i30 because, unlike those earlier motors, the pump is behind the seal and the side play may distort the pump allowing oil to escape at pressure.

[nzenigma]

Got me .

I defend myself with one word CONTEXTUALISE   

Sure we found a few complaints in North America. The rest of the world, not so far. 

would appear manuals are the high risk.

  if there is  a 1000:1 chance of failure, than a high risk cannot be suggested. 

Recent discussion with member from Georgia reminded me that the Europeans have manual cars, auto is not high on the list.

[mickd]

Okay, read all of that , had good laugh as well  .
Not a reason to avoid model, but just a case of :
If " problem A" happens , high chance "cause A" is the culprit.

Thanks gents.