[robbo137]

Ah yes i did see the Castrol 10w30 but i would prefer 5w30 given Canberra winters are pretty cold and long lasting. I think the 5w vs 10w will be better for cold starts etc. i think the correct SAE is more important than using a Castrol A5 oil (for me anyway).

I think i read that article not along going during my search for oils. I agree, i think overall the A3/B4 oils are superior due to the sheer but i was also reading that if the engine is designed for A5/B5 - that an A5/B5 oil is superior for that particular engine. I just can't seem to find out exactly what is different in our A5 engines. Perhaps the A5/B5 oils are also doing as described in the article... 'As engine durability may be compromised as HTHS viscosity is lowered, it is essential that new technology and polymers are utilized in high performance engine lubricants to maintain durability'. So maybe other technologies are enhanced in our A5 oils to make up for a more compromised HTHS viscosity? or maybe the engines are designed so as not to be concerned with HTHS as much as an A3/B4 engine- which is why you can use A3 in an A5 engine but not the other way around?

Yeah, that is weird and doesn't fit into the picture at all. I assume that the 1.6Ts are the same in the U.S. as here? I was reading that the U.S. go more by API (SL, SN etc) as opposed to ACEA with is more of a Euro framework designed more for emissions and extended drain intervals where as API and Dexos (which is also a U.S. regulatory system) has much shorter drain intervals. Maybe Hyundai in the U.S. are more concerned with the API framework? I know that there is a lot of disagreement between the 2 frameworks, car manufacturers, oil companies as well as the engineers who develop the engines as they are all looking to take things in different directions - Drain interval vs performance vs emissions vs engine protection etc. But, i would assume the U.S. 1.6Ts have the same service intervals as ours 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm


All our ACEA A5 oils are SL (2004 and prior) where as the A3/B4 oils are mainly SN and SN+. Gets a bit confusing. I'd love to find a ACEA A5/B5 and SN+ oil if possible. I was reading that the i30 has a direct injection turbo, so LSPI may be a consideration in oil choice which is SN+. One of those Mobil oils seems to be LSPI rated, A5 and SN+. But again, I don't know if the U.S engines are the same as ours?


European Oils - Auto Service World


This doc is also really good and talks about all the different associations and their competing priorities for anyone interested:

http://www.infineuminsight.com/media/1816/5-engine-oil-specifications-na.pdf

[CraigB]

Of course this all has to do with Fuel Economy which also leads to emissions.   So technically the A3/B4 has a stronger shear (film) strength than the A5/B5 oil.
But also because of that, the A5/B5 oil will have better fuel efficiency.   Again if you were planing on doing track type work, then the smart move would be to use A3/B4 as it's a "stronger" oil.

But that also brings us back to Hyundai USA decision to change to a 5w-40 oil.  For as far as I have googled, there are no 5w-40 oils that are A5/B5.  So for some reason they require a stronger shear strenth oil.

No reason to not stick with an A5B5 oil even with track work, if you want better protection then use a PAO oil which is designed for extreme conditions and sheer free.

I use true synthetic PAO oil exclusively in mine as I do like to blow the cobwebs out now and again tuned to just shy of 8000rpm I need this anyway and protects better over summer while retaining fuel efficiency. 

10 TENTHS RACING 5W-30 (100% PAO & ESTER) | Penrite Oil

[robbo137]

I've seen that oil and it looks pretty good (if true to its ratings). Appears to be AB5 as well as SN. I do wonder though how they manage to tick all those boxes (including GF5). Penrites HPR was a Group 3 Syn oil derived from a mineral base and then highly processed to extract impurities, mix in additives to then ultimately create a full Syn oil. Our regulations allow fully syn oils to originate (well, at least they did) from mineral base and allow this to be marketed as fully syn, where as in other countries full syn oils must originate from Group 4 and 5 oils. Perhaps this has changed since i lasted looked this up?

What work have you had done to yours CraigB? How any kw is it pulling?

Also, as an unrelated note - roughly how long does it take for the i30 SR/Nline to reach 'operating temp'? For e.g. to check the oil you wait for operating temp and then wait 5 minutes or you shouldn't rev it hard before it reaches operating temp. I thought that operating temp was engine oil temp, but when i asked AU Hyundai they said that once the temp gauge reaches just below the middle - that you have reached operating temp. I thought that this gauge was the coolant temp and coolant temp is not operating temp.

Thoughts?

[CraigB]

@robbo137 All full synthetics are mineral based (Shell Ultra being the exception with the base made from gas) with enough percentage of synthetic additives allowing them to be called full synthetic.

True synthetics - PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) are explained in Penrite FAQ’s

FAQs | Penrite Oil,-semi-synthetic-(SEMI-SYN.)-and-full-synthetic-(FULL-SYN.)-base-oils%3F

Mine was a non turbo 1.6ltr 99kw model, now about 125kw at the treads after post tune modifications on throttle body and intake after initial exhaust/extractor/timing mods.

[robbo137]

Looks like a definitional issue as Penrite describe full syn oils as being G3 and premium syn as being 4/5. I think in a lot of other countries to market as full syn you have to be group 4/5, rather than group 3. To the consumer you’d probably think fully synthetic = premium/true synthetic here in Aus but they don’t have to distinguish that in their marketing.

Which yeah, means your PAO oil going by their definitions is G4/5 - might be worth a crack!

That’s a decent amount of increase from that work you did! Makes me want to squeeze another 25-50kws out.. but then warranty..

[CraigB]

Much easier to gain extra out of the turbos, RaceChip can make your dreams come true

[robbo137]

I read a bit about those before. Possible to get 200+...?

[CraigB]

I read a bit about those before. Possible to get 200+...?

I believe the GTS (top tier) will give you +49 HP+116 Nm

[Purplehazeffc]

Just a bit of info as we are going along that way..

I did mentioned before that my Hyundai dealer that has been servicing my car, has been using Mobil Oil in the 5w-30 grade. Which is the correct grade.
That what was showing on the invoice that I received.
On getting the cars 40,000k service today. The invoice has Mobil Formula S 5w-30. https://lubes.mobil.com/AP-English-LCW/carengineoils_au_products_mobil-formula-s2-5w30.aspx#
Which is only a Semi Synthetic.   So maybe it looks like they have been using that Oil all along..
I had some Penrite 5w-30 A5/B5 oil still from when I brought a cpl of them while they were on special..
So I drained that oil out & put in the Penrite..   Because it doesn't sound right that a Semi Synthetic should be going into a turbo engine..   Thought ???

[CraigB]

@Purplehazeffc That's pretty sneaky of them   I agree semi synthetic shouldn't be used in high rpm turbo engines, just doesn't have the sheer strength compared to full syn or better still PAO spec.

[Purplehazeffc]

@Purplehazeffc That's pretty sneaky of them   I agree semi synthetic shouldn't be used in high rpm turbo engines, just doesn't have the sheer strength compared to full syn or better still PAO spec.

Which is exactly what I was thinking..  I'll message Hyundai service department on Facebook & see what they say.

[robbo137]

Wow @Purplehazeffc

That’s a bit weird! Is it an A5/B5 oil? I couldn’t find it anywhere in the oils info on google. I found that it is API SN. I also would have thought that a semi syn would be a no no.

Maybe it was a typo from them?... hopefully.  Seems a bit odd to me they’d put that oil in?

[mickd]

Point 4 : Speaker in boot couldn't check spare
would have been a case of WTF !!   

[Purplehazeffc]

Wow @Purplehazeffc

That’s a bit weird! Is it an A5/B5 oil? I couldn’t find it anywhere in the oils info on google. I found that it is API SN. I also would have thought that a semi syn would be a no no.

Maybe it was a typo from them?... hopefully.  Seems a bit odd to me they’d put that oil in?

All Mobil's website says that it is API SN, as you have mentioned.  There is no ACEA rating for that oil that I can find.
But it's the fact that it is a semi syn that looks to be the odd thing..
And to add to that, I had a turbo bearing failure at around the 15,000k mark that was fixed under warranty when I had my 20,000k service.
If the dealer had been using the same oil, as it was stated Mobil Oil 5w-30 on all my other service invoices. Make me wonder if that could've been a cause.

Point 4 : Speaker in boot couldn't check spare
would have been a case of WTF !!   

That would be the subwoofer box.  Maybe just to hard to move I guess. But if they did they may have been more confused.

[robbo137]

Yeah I wouldn’t be happy if a semi syn was put in my car. I looked at the Mobil lube site and the one they used isn’t recommended at all. It’s odd they had the audacity to state it on your invoice.. maybe they think it can be used safely?

Not a far stretch to assume perhaps your earlier issue is related. Is there another Hy dealer where you are you can take it too?

I spoke with a Hy tech at my dealer and he was really helpful for my oil questions. He said the best time to change oil in our engines is 7500km.

[mickd]

As mentioned elsewhere , dealers use what they can get the cheapest by the 200L drum.The drum usually has a product code number and nothing else, so it may be a typo .
Hy dealer at Bega uses Castrol PRO , heard service guy double checking full oil details and specifics as Castrol had changed the code that was on the drum, but not what was on the computer ordering system. ie, order one code and another code arrived.
Anti theft ??

[Purplehazeffc]

There is not really any other closer dealer. I would say 30 -40 ks away. Where the current one is 10ks at most.

I'll ask Hyundai Service Tech & see what they say.

It could be a typo. But they do use Mobil Oil going by the 3 previous services & the sticker they put on the windscreen.

[robbo137]

30kms isn’t too far if they use a better spec oil. Mine is around 25km away I think. Maybe give both dealers a call and see what oil they use?

Maybe either a typo or they used the wrong oil by mistake? I know my dealer uses valvoline A5 oil for turbos and uses similar spec oil as the one you just got for non turbo Hyundais...Except I think it’s still a fully synthetic. But maybe they keep some semi syn around for older engines and used the wrong one? Either way it’s a pretty big error I guess.

Typo would be best case scenario.

[CraigB]

No point in changing dealer/service centre if you are overall happy with them, just buy your own oil for them to use.

@Purplehazeffc I wouldn't be letting them add there injector cleaner either, I think you've mentioned previously you are already using 95 or 98 so that'll do all the cleaning necessary

[Patteri]

Whoa your dealers in Australia are quite something!

Oil change every 7500km?! That is the same rip off as in the North Americas 5000 mile rip off.

Only use good quality oils and Hyundai engines will go for a very long time (300k+). In Finland the oil change is every 15000km and that is the importers way to steal our money. All the other manufacturers have the same high quality oils and motors with 30000km change intervals and NO problems! It is safe to say, if you can drive 30k in the winters of Finland with no problems, then 15k is very safe. 7500km is just mocking the customer and stealing money in exchange for the guarantee.

The 1500km oil change is pretty much just a way to get a bit more sales margin from the new car sale. That is the reason for the original posts high price for a oil change with own oil supplied vs oil of the dealer. If the dealer makes 5000 dollars from the sale and 75 dollars from a unnecessary service, then you can count the sales margins percents very easily (1,5% more compared to the profit made from original sale and even larger percent if a smaller sales margin on the original sale).

Also it isn't too far to assume that the delivery fee ( I hear is outrageous in Australia?) should include delivery inspection, why do a another one in 1500km if the original inspection was made properly? In Finland this delivery fee is 600 euros for the transport of the vehicle and taking of the protecting plastics (badly) and surely isn't even close to the real cost of the delivery when comparing to the normal labour costs of the dealer.

[Dazzler]

@Patteri

Our 1500 service is usually a free one. I agree with you that in normal driving conditions $7,500 oil changes are overkill. Being that I did over 30 K per year in the two years I had my 2017 SR I was disappointed in the 10 K service interval but could live with that. Most of my 34 cars have been15K as per my current hybrid and that certainly suits me better.

[robbo137]

I don’t think he meant 7500km for NA engines but more so for your turbos. He was talking about the N, SR and golfs etc as well as other performance engines he builds. He said he found 7500km vs 5 or 10k to be the optimal interval. Not sure how legitimate that is, but we covered heaps of topics and chatted for a good 40 mins and he seemed to know his stuff. He was also probably talking about cars that are tracked and put under quite heavy load.

Good point @CraigB about not changing  dealers if happy with the overall service. For me it would depend on why or how the error was made on if I would take my business elsewhere. With any luck it was just a typo.

 

[CraigB]

@Patteri

Our 1500 service is usually a free one. I agree with you that in normal driving conditions $7,500 oil changes are overkill.

$7,500 oil change is really over the top

The 7500km changes are also classed as an intermediate service (not compulsory) which you'll see offered more frequently in the warmer climate countries, extreme temperatures - towing - aggressive driving are all good reasons to consider intermediate services.

[Dazzler]

@Patteri

Our 1500 service is usually a free one. I agree with you that in normal driving conditions $7,500 oil changes are overkill.

$7,500 oil change is really over the top

The 7500km changes are also classed as an intermediate service (not compulsory) which you'll see offered more frequently in the warmer climate countries, extreme temperatures - towing - aggressive driving are all good reasons to consider intermediate services.

Obviously dealers are more than happy to encourage more frequent servicing. They tried to tell me 7500 intervals on the SR and the Kona.. I can't print my reply here.

The sort of people who advocate  7500 intervals are the same ones who put 98 in when Hyundai is happy to give 5 year (or even 7) unlimited kilometre warranty while saying 91 or E10 are both adequate.

I understand if the car is constantly towing heavy loads or driven hard in high temperates, more frequent changes may be a good idea, but for the average joe blow I still consider it over kill and a waste of money. Modern Fully Synthetic oils are amazing and offer terrific protection. 10k is not far.., I can run that up in a couple of months... 

[robbo137]

I agree and think that 10k km is frequent enough for oil changes. I’ll be changing at the 10k mark interval. Not sure if he was trying to make money out of me as when I said I’ll book in at the 5k mark to drop the break in oil out he said not to bother and that there is no point and to just leave it in till the first 10k service. He said 7500k if tracking the car but 10k is more than adequate for your everyday turbo car that gets a bit of a boot full here and there.

I was going to drop the factory fill at either the 1500km or 5k km mark but he talked me out of it and saved me $150. I’ll probably need to change every 1k with the amount of smoke we are getting here. Surely that can’t be good for your engine?