i30 Owners Club
MODIFYING OR DETAILING YOUR I30 => ENGINE BAY => Topic started by: bloodnut on October 23, 2010, 08:23:47
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Has anybody on this forum blocked off thier EGR valve, i have done this on another crdi ute i currently own, it has lowered intake air temps, water temp a little, seems to be a little more torque & slightly better fuel economy, overall the engine run a lot cooler & more efficiant.
Cheers Bloodnut :)
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i wonder what it would do! its supposed to lower N0x i think and diesel smoke, by adding exhaust gas to the intake...
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petrol engines also have an egr valve.
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weld it up!!!
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and void my warranty? no thanks. :P :lol:
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nah... do it internally on the tube!!
come on mate!!! get the tig out! fill the tube and BAM!! no one will know!
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In the UK the car would fail the emissions part of its MOT test with this modification. Very costly and not very environmentally friendly :exclaim:
Not that I'm a member of greenpeace or anything. :lol:
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If its any help to anybody, on my other crdi car i made a 3mm shim that just simply slides into place,
can easily be removed for warranty issues.
Cheers Bloodnut :wink:
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In the UK the car would fail the emissions part of its MOT test with this modification. Very costly and not very environmentally friendly :exclaim:
Not that I'm a member of greenpeace or anything. :lol:
the same in oz mate,unroadworthy vehicle sticker applied to windscreen. anything after 1978 has the egr,earlier than that its classed as a pre pollution engine. :idea:
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not everything has an EGR... the nissans i have owned never had it!!!
it really shocked me when i was looking at the car just after i bought it to see an ERG tube... i thought the days of that were over!
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There are two way of getting diesels to comply with the Euro anti polution laws, which by the way, they use in Oz for trucks.
One is to use AdBlue and the the other is EGR.
Now rembember, thems that does wrong will be punsished,
If they get caught, that is :lol:
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adblue? whats this?
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It's a bit like vomit green... :wink:
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EGR blocking is common on many makes, I believe Hy use a different term for similar technology but I DONT see any Threads about poor "EGR" performance / failure on this site.
I had a new EGR on my last car, a Fiat Grande Punto, 1.9 MJet, at around 50,000 miles as it became completely choked / blocked & the solenoid operation plunger had seized with soot. Many Fiat owners ask about & discuss the advantages / draw-backs of blocking off the EGR. Bottom line is that there is no performance or economy benefits over a fully operational EGR, however, if there were issues related to a partly ineffective EGR then blocking i off MAY seem to improve things. In reality, he EGR provides a cooling effect on the incoming charge for combustion as well as reducing the NoX content of a modern diesel, probably the same for a petrol engine with an EGR... Some schools of thoughts suggest blocking the EGR may be detrimental to Turbo life....
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In the UK the car would fail the emissions part of its MOT test with this modification. Very costly and not very environmentally friendly :exclaim:
Not that I'm a member of greenpeace or anything. :lol:
the same in oz mate,unroadworthy vehicle sticker applied to windscreen. anything after 1978 has the egr,earlier than that its classed as a pre pollution engine. :idea:
Thats true but Australia being so much larger than the UK like how many times would you fit the UK into the state of West Australia? and we have a much lower population ( but boats arriving all the time ).
i don't think i can remember ever having been asked to have anything tested for polution and i cover a lot of ground each year driving.
Do they test you regular in VIC?
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AdBlue is a catalysing compound which is added to the exhaust to lower polutants
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How did you work out intake temps were down with egr valve blocked ?
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Taken from the USA Patents office FAQ's
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080216476 (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080216476)
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
[0003]An internal combustion (IC) engine may include an exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system for controlling the generation of undesirable pollutant gases and particulate matter in the operation of internal combustion engines. EGR systems primarily recirculate the exhaust gas by-products into the intake air supply of the internal combustion engine. The exhaust gas which is reintroduced to the engine cylinder reduces the concentration of oxygen therein, which in turn lowers the maximum combustion temperature within the cylinder and slows the chemical reaction of the combustion process, decreasing the formation of nitrous oxides (NOx). Furthermore, the exhaust gases typically contain unburned hydrocarbons which are burned on reintroduction into the engine cylinder, which further reduces the emission of exhaust gas by-products which would be emitted as undesirable pollutants from the IC engine.
Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080216476#ixzz143yFeiD8 (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080216476#ixzz143yFeiD8)
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Does anybody have pictures of where the egr valve is located on the i30? As stated before have blocked off egr in another current model crdi, slighty better fuel economy & cool engine temps {scanguage}. Have just cleaned crap off MAP & MAF sensor on other vehicle & would also be interested where these are located on the i30.
Thanks in advance.
Bloodnut
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:) C'mon guys get with the program! I will soon host pictures of what your MAP sensor looks like after 90k!
Blocking off the egr & cleaning MAP & MAF sensor make sense! Like i said i have done this on a 2010 crdi
model car. Going to search tomorrow on the wifes car for this mod, its worthwhile. Have look on otherr deisiel forums.
Cheers Bloodnut.
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I've never heard of EGR problems on the i30 so if thats the case why block off something that should be there & is working as intended, risking other issues to boot? Do you know something that Hyundai dont? :winker:
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Its not a problem, no I dont know more than Hyundai. Just know from experience that the egr is dumping hot exhaust gases into your inlet manifold, increasing engine temps, sooting up your manifold & sensors & breaking down your engine oil quicker.
Good luck guys.
CheersBloodnut
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Its not a problem, no I dint know more than Hyundai. Just know from experience that the egr is dumping hot exhaust gases into your inlet manifold, increasing engine temps, sooting up your manifold & sensors & breaking down your engine oil quicker.
Good luck guys.
CheersBloodnut
I am no technician, but Bloodnut's post sounds logical to me,
i would prefer to input clean filtered air into my engine than sooty
old exhaust gas, which must be oxygen depleted ?
In my opinion it is detrimental, and is only done to meet emissions.
only an opinion
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.. In my opinion it is detrimental, and is only done to meet emissions.
This is the whole point... it is to reduce emissions... and this is important when the world agrees it's important.
I don't know how old you are but I do hope that the younger inhabitants of the world can learn to make better decisions that might affect the next "whatever" years the world has.
Mind you, I also need to be pulled along by others making the legislation to improve the environment but at the same time I'm not about to defy that even if "it cools my intake".
It's a matter of big picture versus... your picture. :faint:
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Personally, i think global warming is a load of bo**ocks,
its just another ploy to get more money from us !
:twisted:
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I blocked my EGR valve today on my i30 premium 2.0crdi ,,WOW what a difference no more hesitation and so much more quieter then before NO more turbo lad its like a new car also gained about 13 more horses aswell. took it to friends garage its standard no mods running now at 152bhp feels like it aswell..
easily done used a ali coke can to make a solid gasket
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Bad choice to use coke can I'm afraid. Exhaust gasses are hot, even EGR ones. That'll probably go through your engine fairly soon.
On the subject of EGR, The idea of EGR is mainly to deplete oxygen levels so that full combustion can not occur, thus lowering NOx & combustion temps in the engine. Unfortunately it also contains particulates which are bad for your engine & oil. I think the mention that unburnt hydrocarbons also present in the EGR charge are re-combusted is a load of bull****. How can it be re-combusted if O2 is depleted already.
I hate the idea of EGR but the engine is designed for it and should be left alone IMO.
I have 2 ideas that I would like to see rather than EGR
1. Use a compressed gas cylinder of CO2 (there's plenty of it around apparantely) & inject that with an appropriate valve.
2. Inject water instead of EGR to put out the combustion process just enough to lower temps, not drown everything. This system could achieve temp lowering, uses only water in small amounts. All engines make more power in humid air than dry air, so there would possibly be a power gain as a result.
Lastly, I haven't looked at I30 but EGR's I've seen in the past are usually vacuum operated. So, if you were going to block your EGR, wouldn't you just block the vacuum tube instead of using shims, Coke cans etc.
Don't do it, I believe you will harm your engine over time.
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i been told by many people that it dont harm the engine. even the mechanic at my local hyundai dealer said block it off, it helps the engine breath clean air instead of its own S**t, plus helps turbo spoll up quick which is less turbo lag. the egr on i30 is electronic and runs at the back of engine from turbo. FRom my experiance the car runs smoother , alot quieter , and alot more torque and power. people have different opinions regarding egr valve. But when my local hyundai mechanic says block it , that said it all for me. i used coke can as tempory shim just to see if it caused any warning lights. and it hasn't... if you do block your egr valve block from exhaust side not the valve itself, and leave valve connected to loom. then it wont bring up any faults cos ECU thinks its still doing its job.
Thanks guys i will keep you posted if i get any fault lights come up
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Thanks, interesting discussion :goodjob:
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No problems hope this helps anyone who wishs to block the egr valve. i can send pictures of egr location and were to block it from
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post the pics, ill give it a go and see if the ultraguage shows any differences
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i been told by many people that it dont harm the engine. even the mechanic at my local hyundai dealer said block it off, it helps the engine breath clean air instead of its own S**t, plus helps turbo spoll up quick which is less turbo lag. the egr on i30 is electronic and runs at the back of engine from turbo. FRom my experiance the car runs smoother , alot quieter , and alot more torque and power. people have different opinions regarding egr valve. But when my local hyundai mechanic says block it , that said it all for me. i used coke can as tempory shim just to see if it caused any warning lights. and it hasn't... if you do block your egr valve block from exhaust side not the valve itself, and leave valve connected to loom. then it wont bring up any faults cos ECU thinks its still doing its job.
Thanks guys i will keep you posted if i get any fault lights come up
All this is true, and EGR is as far as i know completely useless and pointless device just like DPF! Only there to cause problems and in the end for unlucky owners nice financial problem. Only "real" use to insignificantly save ecology and to look like car industry cares LOL LOL LOL and LOL!
One question, EGR valve prevents creation of NOX gasses by "limiting" complete combustion by transfering 5-15% of exhaust gasses into intake.
So, when you remove it you have cleaner intake, better combustion, more hp and better economy, but ALSO higher exhaust temps in my opinion.
Like i said, EGR prevents complete combustion because thats when NOX gasses are created...you remove EGR, complete combustion -> temps go up...will this affect engine in any way?
Also some people report knocking which is not good....
Much appreciated if you could ask this your hyundai mechanic.
THX!
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BTW does the petrol engine have EGR? My other car doesn't, because of fuel injection. EGR's were introduced to combat NOx production caused by "Lean burn" carburettor technology, but I think fuel injection is not lean burn so it shouldn't be required, only in Diesel engines.
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"knocking" in a direct injected diesel?
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"knocking" in a direct injected diesel?
I said people reported it, im not into mechanics that much to know is it true or not.
I checked with my dealer and he said there's no down side to this so i'll block it next week.
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EGR blocking is common on many makes, I believe Hy use a different term for similar technology but I DONT see any Threads about poor "EGR" performance / failure on this site.
I had a new EGR on my last car, a Fiat Grande Punto, 1.9 MJet, at around 50,000 miles as it became completely choked / blocked & the solenoid operation plunger had seized with soot. Many Fiat owners ask about & discuss the advantages / draw-backs of blocking off the EGR. Bottom line is that there is no performance or economy benefits over a fully operational EGR, however, if there were issues related to a partly ineffective EGR then blocking i off MAY seem to improve things. In reality, he EGR provides a cooling effect on the incoming charge for combustion as well as reducing the NoX content of a modern diesel, probably the same for a petrol engine with an EGR... Some schools of thoughts suggest blocking the EGR may be detrimental to Turbo life....
If i understand it correctly how can that be?
I think its quite the opposite, EGR was the one who let very hot and dirty gasses into turbine and that was what shortened the life span.
Now turbo gets nice clean cold air from intake and it is cut off from exhaust.
Am i wrong?
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I don't have any technical drawings to show the actual path of EGR gasses but I think that the stress on the turbine comes from the hot side.
The turbine has 2 sets of vanes on a common shaft. The compressor side takes incoming air and forcefully compresses the cool air driven by the energy in the shaft from the exhaust gasses.
There is no argument that the high compression of diesel combustion causes the creation of NOx gasses. So, unfortunately EGR is required to COOL THE COMBUSTION IN THE CYLINDER which in turn, reduces NOx gasses AND provides COOLER EXHAUST GASSES.
If EGR is blocked off, exhaust gasses will be very high and these gasses pass through and drive the turbine. This extra heat could stress the turbo over time and cause failure, so you see blocking EGR increases exhaust gas temperature.
Make no mistake, I hate the EGR concept too. :neutral:
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True.
+ when you floor it EGR is closed, so i guess again there is no increase in temperature only in that condition.
Only real problem is normal driving and sustaining speed (which is like 90% of the time for me), lets say highway constant 110kph. Then egr should be open to lower temp and now is not.
So looks like only real question remains, how big is that temperature raise?
For example: normal driving with EGR is 600 celzius, and without is 700 celzius, and maximum is 800, then yes, somewhat bigger stress on turbine but in the end not that significant.
If normal driving with egr is 600 celzius, and without 750 celzius, and maximum is 700, then yes, that is big issue for sure.
I'll see with my dude in hyundai if we can go for a ride and he connects diagnostic laptop to read temperatures after closure.
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That would be a very good & informative test. I'd love to close mine off too, but not on the strength of other people's opinions, something more scientific is required.
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That would be a very good & informative test. I'd love to close mine off too, but not on the strength of other people's opinions, something more scientific is required.
I saw this topic and asked my dude in Hyundai (which has already done all that modification on my car flawlessly) and his answer was there's absolutely no reason not to block it, its only for ecology.
And i asked one dude more from another forum (insane amount of knowledge he has), this dude is special because "he gets epileptic seizure" every time any1 does a modification on a car. And even he said he already has his EGR blocked.
So for me these are 2 opinions that count even tho real data is "missing".
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So, are you going to do the test you previously mentioned or not.
Ecology is still an issue, you are contributing to dirty brown NOx when you drive which you breathe too.
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Was answering on your comment about other people opinion, not on the part you need proof etc.
I will do my best to do the test (i cant force hyudnai dealer to go with me to measure, its purely his will).
I dont care about ecology so thats out of the way for me.
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:goodjob: Good to see some of you guys are looking into the EGR block, I have now done 40 000kms with EGR blocked of in my CRDI 4WD, with no side effects, besides cleaner oil & lower engine & intake temps, according to my scan gauge. Do anybody have pictures of where to block EGR on i30, had a quick look, can't seem to locate EGR cooler.
Cheers Bloodnut
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I see quite a few fans of this concept on the site.. I do wonder though, if there are no downsides, why it is not like that my default :confused:
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Post a DIY.... I would block mine! :)
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Have found the egr pipe, cooler & valve, just haven't had time to block it , should get to it over chrissie break.
Cheers Bloodnut :goodjob2:
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I see quite a few fans of this concept on the site.. I do wonder though, if there are no downsides, why it is not like that my default :confused:
its an emissions law dazz. :idea:
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Guess I'm just cautious about warranty issues.. :confused:
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On my other crdi ute, the egr block plate, can be remove by undoing 2 10 mm nuts, the plate is slotted where the studs are, can be removed for warranty issues in 2 mins flat, including fetching the spanner.
Cheers Bloodnut
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Hi
I know that VW had problems with EGR on their TDI engines, they created a new plate with a lot smaller hole, that worked. No problems regarding the emission control every 2. year either.
BR
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Just thought I'd mention, in the 70's I blocked my EGR in a Subaru flat four engine. 1400k's later, 2 collapsed exhaust valves. Had to remove & replace them myself.
So it's not only the turbo, there are 8 exhaust valves in the diesel & you can imagine what Hyundai will charge to do that job.
I still recommend, don't do it. :fum:
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Yesterday my EGR was blocked. From the 200km i made till now i can only say "damn why i didnt do it long time ago!".
So obviously i am thrilled about positive experience i have, regarding problems you mentioned i will hope that they are random or certain model relevant.
If not, well, i'll have to deal with it some day in the future.
I still owe a measurement we couldnt do yesterday because its rush hour in the service coz of hyundai winter action car checkup for 0.20 $.
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Hi Xamaxy
What exactly did you gain by blocking the EGR..?
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Hi Xamaxy
What exactly did you gain by blocking the EGR..?
No more turbo lag, car now accelerates immediately from 1700rpm above. Insanely good feeling especially compared to before. (also this can be so obvious because of my other upgrades that was dampened by egr or something like that)
Throttle/car response in shifting between 1st and 2nd gear improved.
I think its even a bit quieter, perhaps placebo...
Estimated KM on BC went from 790km to 855km after only 20km with blocked EGR, which can perhaps suggest a slight improvement in economy.
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how did you do it?
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Brass plate sealing in front of EGR (if i translated it correctly). So that the hot gasses cant eventually heat their way through.
I guess something like this i found on internet.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70823&d=1168629163 (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70823&d=1168629163)
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Here's some condensed info regarding turbo failure from blocked / dirty EGR valve. Apparently, this really happened.
1. Engine temps increase.
2. Turbo seals fail.
3. Engine oil passes through broken seals into vacuum created by turbo inlet.
4. Engine runs on oil instead of diesel. No throttle control, goes to red line until oil is consumed or turbo / engine destruction. In the end engine seizes.
5. Ign key has no effect. If auto, car would go berserk.
How do you deal with this, with possibly no warning.
This is potentially dangerous. :disapp:
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Hi,
i am interested in this so can you please post a link to guy that this happened to?
"1. Engine temps increase"
I believe that diesel engine has higher exhaust temps @4000rpms then @2000rpms, right?
EGR by definition works only on normal driving, when you floor it it is shut off, right?
How can normal driving temp increase be even remotely compared to temps @4000rpm to make that kind of damage?
Also, i can redo your list that fits also :mrgreen::
1. Dude got car tuned (chip, egr, intake etc), raced it cold, turned it off without turbo cooling off, often high reving, playing Schumacher...
2. Turbo seals fail.
3. Engine oil passes through broken seals into vacuum created by turbo inlet.
4. Engine runs on oil instead of diesel. No throttle control, goes to red line until oil is consumed or turbo / engine destruction. In the end engine seizes.
5. Ign key has no effect. If auto, car would go berserk.
PS
Wiki copy/paste "EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity."
Shall we name all the parts that can be destroyed from this and factory made it this way? :scared:
:goodjob:
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I hate the idea of EGR valves as much as you, I agree with you entirely, we need a better alternative.
http://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/258910-egr-blanking.html (http://www.fiatforum.com/multipla/258910-egr-blanking.html) :undecided:
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I've read all 3 pages and it is exactly the same like what we have here hehe :mrgreen:
You seem to favor 'widemouthfrog' comments, while i favor 'momoe' comments :mrgreen:
EGR looks like to be completely the same as chip-tuning subject. Many pros and cons but without definitive data :happydance:
So, how did anyone chose to do it?
For me, it all comes down to who did recommend this.
For example, i first saw about EGR blocking right here in this topic. Then i immediately contacted 2 persons. One is dude with extreme car knowledge that hates any tuning to the car (buy stronger car if you want more power) and his answer was "i did egr block on all my 4 cars right away" . Second dude was my Official Hyundai Service guy who says " yep, its ecology crap thingy, 10min job to block it and no harm done".
I was like WOW, what about all the problems i read on internet like higher temps, eco tests etc and they both laughed.
That was good enough for me to get it. :D
PS
Check engine light and p0401 error is quite easily solved by drilling small hole in the blocking plate and in that way ECU detects some gasses and doesnt bitch about it :rofl:
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Only time will tell. :neutral:
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If you buy a Scanguage, you can clear the p0401 egr code, at anytime you wish. They are very handy, have one on 4x4, displays 4 engine functions at once, intake air, boost, water temp, liters per hundred & many more.
Cheers Bloodnut
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How accurate is instant mpg indicator on scangauge2?
I wanted it because of that instant fuel economy and EGT, but many say over the internet that instant fuel gauge is not correct, and sc2 doesnt have EGT. :confused:
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XAmaxy, thats correct, it does nt read EGT, as for trip meter, I dont use it, so I cant comment on the accuracy.
Cheers Bloodnut :goodjob2:
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An interesting development, on another topic, it has been suggested the the EGR is inoperative when the air cond is running. That is IF you have the ELECTRIC EGR valve I presume.
Can anyone confirm that this is actually the case. If true, I fail to see the connection between EGR and air cond, apart from the fact that air cond loads the motor & possibly the EGR interferes with smooth running.
Air cond is generally used to cool the car. If cooling is required, the ambient air temp is usually uncomfortably high, which means the air temp to the engine is also quite warm.
If it is acceptable to run the engine with EGR cancelled for prolonged periods in high temp conditions, then the worries about engine stress due to high combustion temperatures must be irrelevant.
I have been an advocate for not disconnecting the EGR, so I'd appreciate confirmation that this is in fact the case. :undecided:
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EGR, DPF, Turbo. The 3 main reasons I abandoned diesel.
Plus it only gave me 8 MPG more (I'll ignore the 194Bhp & 260ft lbs of torque for now!)
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You are ignoring the BEST parts. :)
We are about to get slugged a "Carbon Tax" which means "we pay $", and yet our country doesn't think DPF is required here. Strange how the govt is in the lead of other nations when it comes to collecting revenue, but lags at actually cleaning the air. I question their parentage. :fum:
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An interesting development, on another topic, it has been suggested the the EGR is inoperative when the air cond is running. That is IF you have the ELECTRIC EGR valve I presume.
......
Well that would certainly explain a lot for me if its true!!!
When my car had ~2000km all the way to ~40000km i had constant sort of hesitancy or better explained "not normally smooth acceleration - bumpy accel" between 1900-2500rpms ONLY when gently accelerating. Under hard accel no problem at all.
When i installed CAI because of the greater turbo sucking sound we could hear s-s-s-s-s-s-s instead of normal ssssssssssss intake sound. Sort of intermitent intake. Everything was checked and nothing could be found to correct this.
Here comes the funny part, during summer, 30+ degrees C out, air con working, car accelerates flawlessly!! Again no reason for that could be found.
So when you said quoted part it was 1 +1 for me and judging from what i have experienced that could be easily true.
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There is a little more about the i30's EGR valve @
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/197-i30-elantra-touring-forum/124862-diesel-automatic-gearbox-problem-2.html (http://www.hyundai-forums.com/197-i30-elantra-touring-forum/124862-diesel-automatic-gearbox-problem-2.html)
Dunno if helpful or not.
It is alleged (at least as I read it) that turning on the aircon bypasses the EGR. Cant comment - but turning on the aircon doesnt solve the auto kickdown issue I have from 4th to 3rd.
Ed
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Had the EGR on my old Grande Punto replaced after tring to clean it, it was INCREDIBLY clogged up! New one supplied & fitted cost me £156 during a full service at 54,000 miles when I alsoi had the cambelt / waterpump done, from memory the whole lot was around £375, Fiat dealers wanted almost £1,000 to do the job... :eek:
Part ex'd the Fiat at 74,000 miles running as sweet as a nut, personally I'd never consider changing the operation of the EGR, I believe updates to MoT requirements may sniff them out possibly along with re-maps too. I guess the Jury is out on an MoT stations ability to find a re-map but we'll see....
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Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. The Hyundai "E"EGR is electric, so if you want to compare performance just put a switch in line with the valve plunger switch. (pins 1 and 5 from memory on the EEGR connector)
If you disable the EEGR, you WILL see a mild improvement. I've proven it with many other cars over the years. Expect a kW or 2 but no more. A fresh charge of air has to be better than an oil soaked charge of air.
I also read a comment about longevity of the engine being affected by removal or blocking the EGR. Another twisting of the truth!! If your engine has good oil and regular oil changes then that is all you need to get good mileage. The EEGR has absolutely nothing to do with engine lubrication. It's just there to cut down on some aledgedly toxic gases that are produced. In reality, there is vastly more crap coming out your exhaust pipe than what is produced in a crankcase.
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Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. The Hyundai "E"EGR is electric, so if you want to compare performance just put a a in line with the valve plunger switch. (pins 1 and 5 from memory on the EEGR connector)
You left out the magic word, put a a in line :question: a What :question:
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I also miss the keyword. :D
Do you mean that we should connect pin 1 and 5 while the connector is still mounted on the eegr..? ..so that the eegr will be continuously disabled..?
Or am I totally off track.. :confused:
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What about MAF sensor?
ECU still "see" that there is no difference in intake pressure and again concludes that EGR is faulty, right?
Disabling EGR is easy any way you choose it...fooling ECU is a bit harder.
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Interesting link that was posted by Talking Horse ( http://www.hyundai-forums.com/197-i30-elantra-touring-forum/124862-diesel-automatic-gearbox-problem-2.html (http://www.hyundai-forums.com/197-i30-elantra-touring-forum/124862-diesel-automatic-gearbox-problem-2.html)
This, for the first time actually identifies where this elusive EGR unit is !! :goodjob:
It mentions that the Kia changed from vacuum to electric in a recall ( The Kia Carens { same engine and gearbox} fault came up when they changed the existing vacuum EGR valve with electric on a nationwide upgrade.) in the UK.
I assume that we have the electric version....but will need to check, :eek: but either way, it seems that a squirt or 2 of the cleaner would be good preventative maintanence each year as suggested. Note the precautipns outlined in this thread.
Our auto is at 58,000 and we have (touch wood) not have any of the issues described in this thread, but it would be interesting to give Elle B a clean and see if there is any discernable improvement. :happydance:
The cross referenceing to the Kia forums, especially relating to parts that are shared between the i30 and Kia sure adds more "grist" to the mill !!! :cool:
Well done guys...
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Sorry guys, the missing word is now in place. "Switch" was the missing word.
The pins I was refering to are in the connector that fits into the EEGR. 1 & 5 provide power to the solenoid, the other 3 pins are to sense the pressure.
The Hyundai GSW data sheets give a pretty good description of the circuit.
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The EGR valve is misnamed IMO, it should be called the Oxygen Depletion Valve, that is its function. So, the ODV is apparently cut out when using the air conditioner. This does not cause faults to be reported, so I wonder how this is achieved. Does anyone know :question:
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Wife owns a i30 2.0l petrol, which we have experienced some problems with not associiated with the ERG. I'll post that one on the appropriate thread.
Re EGR valve. Just bought a 2011 triton 2.5 turbo diesel. It was having problems when cold, with the motor surging. For the 1st 1km or so it would kangaroo hop when trying to cruise just above idle. The mechanic mentioned the ERG valve could be causing the problem, which it wasn't. I did some research and they are nothing more than a emmission control system. They pump sooty gases back into the motor. The main problem is it cloggs up the motor and put's contaminents in the oil, shortening the life of the motor.
Blocking it off may increase power and also fuel economy, but that a secondary benefit. Yes it is illegal, however I've heard that the increased fuel economy negatives the increased emissions. I haven't done it to my ute, as I'm concerned about warranty issues. I asked the Mitsubishi mechanic about the problems caused to diesels by the ERG. He said off the record, and I quote, "If I owned a diesel and it wasn't against the law I would bloke it up. They stuff the motor up." He also mentioned it would void warranty if any other problems arose, and it could cause sensor lights to activate. It sounds to me a bit like having a horse, and hooking a pipe up to it rear end, and pumping it back in it's mouth. It will lower methane gases, keep the streets clean, but your horse will eventually die.
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CBF Welcome to the forum, hope this site helps you. :goodjob2:
This EGR thread is now 3 pages long, there has been a lot of discussion about blocking the EGR, for me, the jury's still out.
I would say, in principle, I agree with EGR blocking, but to understand it's primary function introduces a problem. The primary function of the EGR valve is to lower combustion temperatures in the engine. This lowers Nitrous Oxide emissions in the atmosphere which is a good thing.
In the 70's when EGR first appeared, engines were not fuel injected, they had carburettors instead, it was common to run the engines on a special lean mixture which lowered hydrocarbon emissions, but created the nitrous oxide emission problem, which in turn was solved using the EGR valve solution. It was a well known fact that blocking the EGR valve on a petrol engine with a carby, would eventually lead to collapsed exhaust valves & or a hole in the piston due to high combustion temperatures. So in those days it was a definite no no.
Today's modern fuel injected engines appear to be a different matter. I have read that during air conditioner operation on the I30, the EGR is electrically isolated and so doesn't function at all. I find this statement perplexing and have no proof that this is in fact the case. But if this is true, then there would appear to be a case for permanent blocking. Note however, that the dealer mechanics always say "if there are any problems, warranty would be affected." I think that means, do so at your own risk. :neutral:
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Sorry to resurrect a pretty old thread, but does anyone know which one is the egr valve ? when I take the crdi engine cover off I see two pipes at the back of the engine -
* one black one that goes from the top of the engine into some tube on the black intake pipe and then another metal one that seems to go from the engine into the exhaust housing of the turbo...
thanks Paul (have been a lurker on this forum for a long time and seemed to have lost my old login in the site upgrade a while back)
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Not sure Paul.. Hopefully someone will know :goodjob:
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Sorry to resurrect a pretty old thread, but does anyone know which one is the egr valve ? when I take the crdi engine cover off I see two pipes at the back of the engine -
* one black one that goes from the top of the engine into some tube on the black intake pipe and then another metal one that seems to go from the engine into the exhaust housing of the turbo...
thanks Paul (have been a lurker on this forum for a long time and seemed to have lost my old login in the site upgrade a while back)
(http://www.veillatsa.com/catalogue/gestion%20moteur/vannes_EGR/egrvannes_fichiers/image087.gif)
Behind the engine, top-top right area.
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... seemed to have lost my old login in the site upgrade a while back
I sent you a PM about it :)
@Xamaxy - thanks for the pic :goodjob:
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Thanks Shambles - not too fussed, will just go with this one for now :goodjob:
Hmm interesting, will have to take a photo and highlight the two components I've found and wonder what they are there for.
thanks again guys.
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heres some snaps from my iphone - wonder what these are then ? (oh yeah found the egr valve and the tube that delivers it straight to the underside of the (mock?) throttlebody
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/601603_10151013523185135_623830134_11697705_202741826_n.jpg)
Looks like the black one going into the intake could be PCV maybe (positive crankcase ventilation)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/306938_10151013532420135_623830134_11697719_841223197_n.jpg)
(no idea what the bottom one is)
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Hi there, I wouldn't bother blocking the egr! The idea of blocking it is great! And there were a few brief moments that I could feel a slight difference, but the computer is too good and at times retarded the performance to compare with driving a non turbo diesel :(! I went and seen a company we use through work for auto electrical as he said they have blocked egr valves before on older cars, and that the benefits are real. But I was advised the i30 is just too switched on. Unfortunately we cleared the engine light only for it to come on by the time I got home! Some 35km of driving later. So I had to disconnect battery and ecu for the night to clear code.
I was surprised to see how much soot my blank had stopped the first time I put it in which was a couple months earlier and after driving a mere 7km there was a perfect black circle, so I can only imagine how much has gone through my engine as I have some 68k on the clock now.
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Alright I finally got around to doing the EGR block today, took the car for 20-30 minute drive, different speeds, different revs, zircon on/off, no check engine light so far.
Have not hooked up scangauge yet to see extract intake & water temp drop, but the factory needle gauge looks a little lower.
I will try & put pics of the plate with the soot build up after 20-30 mins driving.
Cheers
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Good work :goodjob2: it will be interesting to get some accurate feed back and anaylsis on the topic as against hearsay or supposition....
Look forward to your updates and if the overall result is positive, maybe a "how to do " summary.... :winker:
Cheers
Elle B
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Good work :goodjob2: it will be interesting to get some accurate feed back and anaylsis on the topic as against hearsay or supposition....
Look forward to your updates and if the overall result is positive, maybe a "how to do " summary.... :winker:
Cheers
Elle B
:whsaid:
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Just a quick update if anybodies interested, egr block been on a week now, driven everyday, no problems to report, no check engine light, car has done 8500km since last service, oil last week was jet soot black, after a week oil is getting slightly cleaner.
Cheers Bloodnut
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Many people do a private oil change @7500 km intervals, why don't you give it a go + new filter. It would be interesting to see the results after a few k's.
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Just a quick update if anybodies interested, egr block been on a week now, driven everyday, no problems to report, no check engine light, car has done 8500km since last service, oil last week was jet soot black, after a week oil is getting slightly cleaner.
Thanks Bloodnut... Interesting.....and it makes sense... but what about performance and so forth...anything noticable yet ?x :undecided:
Cheers
Elle B
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Didn't do the mod for performance gains, cant say I feel the car going any faster, just filled up yesterday, will see if it makes any difference to economy.
Cheers Bloodnut
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Didn't do the mod for performance gains, cant say I feel the car going any faster, just filled up yesterday, will see if it makes any difference to economy.
Cheers Bloodnut
That will be interesting, please keep us updated.. :goodjob2:
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Hi to every one,
I'm driving my i30(115) with blocked EGR since June and there is absolutely no faults(problems or what ever) and I've done over 6500mls (10000kms) for that time going to Bulgaria and back to Perth(Scotland)on the way back my last topping up the tank was in Belgium and to the ferry terminal in france(Calais) the odo was showing exactly 100miles(no more or less),then from Dover to Perth after around 8hrs front of my home the computer was showing that there is a diesel for 98miles.In most countries my speeds was 80 85 to 90miles only in UK 75 80 to 85 sometimes. I wish to apologize for my language grammar but hops any one understanding me.
Regards Gogov
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We understand fine, ghgogov
Thanks for the report. I really wish diesels didn't have EGR valves. :neutral:
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Thanks Gogov....what about performance, economy etc.... not faults or problems is one thing....but aside from cleaner oil, there needs to be other measurable benefits to make it worthwhile... :D
Bloodnut....any feed back from you ?
Cheers
Elle B
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ElleB,
There no other benefits that I can report on, other than engine runs cooler, intake temp cooler, no soot & particles going into the engine oil.
Didn't do it for performance, but if you want a cooler & cleaner engine, I think its worthwhile doing. Costs next to nothing to do & is easily reversible if not happy with results.
When it runs out of warranty ealy next year, will do some exhaust mods.
Cheers Bloodnut :goodjob2:
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I forgot to say that the car now pulls a bit stronger from around 1700(little before 2k rev). Since I did the modification
on 4th and 5th gear if the acceleration pedal is pressed to the bottom the clutch get slipping some times,even on 3rd gear on hill streets(if you press right to the bottom off course).
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I forgot to say that the car now pulls a bit stronger from around 1700(little before 2k rev). Since I did the modification
on 4th and 5th gear if the acceleration pedal is pressed to the bottom the clutch get slipping some times,even on 3rd gear on hill streets(if you press right to the bottom off course).
Really? :Yeah:
If your clutch slips under any circumstances it needs repairing.
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:wss:
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A photo would be great sounds like a good way of keeping your engine cleaner better performance will be a bonus also :)
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There is a photo of the block off plate made, in an earlier post, just scroll back.
Cheers Bloodnut
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Hello,
I own a i30 cw 115bhp diesel 2008, and i would like to block the erg.
But i have a few questions: i assume you block the erg on the inlet side, how hot wil the block plate going to be?
I have a piece of alluninium 1,5mm thick and i dont no if it wil stand the heat?
Or do i have to get a pice of metal? and how thick?
Dos annyone have photo's of an installed block plate?
Greethings from Holland!
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Welcome to the forum.
Hopefully someone can answer your questions.
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Doing the EGR block off mod in the next couple of days on a friends car in the next couple of days, will try to remember to take pictures.
Cheers Bloodnut
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Doing the EGR block off mod in the next couple of days on a friends car in the next couple of days, will try to remember to take pictures.
Cheers Bloodnut
So when are you doing it? :snigger: Just let us know in the next couple of days :winker: (I'm only joshing .. have done a similar thing myself)
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I've known people block off the EGR with thin section made from soft drink cans.
From a Vauxhall Forum :-
http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/blocking-off-egr-valve.100122/ (http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/blocking-off-egr-valve.100122/)
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I forgot to say that the car now pulls a bit stronger from around 1700(little before 2k rev). Since I did the modification
on 4th and 5th gear if the acceleration pedal is pressed to the bottom the clutch get slipping some times,even on 3rd gear on hill streets(if you press right to the bottom off course).
I found the problem with the slipping clutch - because there is a oil on it from the gearbox/probably from the shaft seal/
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I know the post is old, but I think it is very helpful post on how I canceled I EGR, the tutorial is in Spanish, if you have any questions you can ask without problems.
http://www.clubi30.es/showthread.php?tid=616 (http://www.clubi30.es/showthread.php?tid=616)
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Thanks for that info !!! :goodjob2:
My Spanish is not real flash.....so I translated it into english in a word file, with the photos. A couple of words are still "off", but certainly we can all get the idea now.. :)
Question is...how to post it...Just copy and paste it into this field?
Advice please.
:snigger:
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I guess that you can copy and paste the text - but any images need to be added via a photobucket image link or a similar host for pictures.
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I guess that you can copy and paste the text - but any images need to be added via a photobucket image link or a similar host for pictures.
Hi Tony.. :goodjob: :whsaid:
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Thanks guys... will get it sorted.. :happydance:
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I'm a recognised linguist for Spanish so if any translations need fine tuning, let me know if I can help.
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Roger que :head_butt:
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:rolleyes: OK, here goes:
Soy lingüista reconocido oficialmente, así que si puedo ayudar, solo hay que avisar.
:goodjob:
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:rolleyes: OK, here goes:
Soy lingüista reconocido oficialmente, así que si puedo ayudar, solo hay que avisar.
:goodjob:
Which loosely translates to, "I now have a colour test pattern at the bottom of my posts."
I think? :undecided:
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Which loosely translates to, "I now have a colour test pattern at the bottom of my posts."
I think? :undecided:
:rofl:
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Well guys...Here is my take on the report.. I am no guru...just used Google Translate.. :whistler:
Hope the image links work ok... :scared:
Spanish ERG valve blanking
A long time ago since I canceled, but today I shot some pictures to guide you a little bit about how you can do it Brico, the first thing we're going to take a few key steps, know what it is, what it does, the pros and cons of canceling the EGR in our car.
- What is it? The EGR valve is a solenoid valve, to pollute less, enter part of the exhaust gases into the intake manifold, getting re-burn and thus pollute less. It would be like if we respirásemos of carbon dioxide with oxygen, so we breathe bad air. The EGR operates at low speeds, from 2,200 rpm idle until approx., There after remains closed.
What is? Like I said, its function is that the vehicle complies pollutes less and pollution law EURO4 and EURO5.
- Annul Pros: The car breathes better, have a little more pull at low, we note that when leaving the car on a slope out better, especially if we get a speed bump in 2nd and try to lift the car. Apart lengthen the life of the engine, because the intake ducts often get stuck a lot with time and miles. ITV spends 100%, measured in diesel exhaust opacity and EGR has no bearing on it.
- Cons of override: warm more slowly, the car pollutes more ...
- How to cancel? For that matter ...
Materials Needed:
- Sheet less than 0.5 mm thick.
- Ratchet and 10mm socket wrench. and 13mm.
- Pliers pressure.
data:
- Required Time: 1.30 h. Approx.
- Estimated price: 0??.
- Difficulty: Medium, we can not forget any parts to assemble everything, we must pay close attention to what we do.
So getting started.
1. The first is to remove the engine cover and hood intake for it dismantle the two screws on the top and two of the bell, the 4 are 10mm., After removing the screws, pull the cover upward to release from behind, and to draw up the throw hood while outside.
http://postimage.org/image/4h0wr155z/ (http://postimage.org/image/4h0wr155z/)
2.2. Then we remove the pipe coming from the intercooler, for this first remove the clamp, we use pressure pliers, and once released carefully throw the tube out of its Location.
http://postimage.org/image/5n4wpttgn/ (http://postimage.org/image/5n4wpttgn/)
3. We must remove the meter of air to remove the two screws it 10mm. we see in the image, after removing disconnect the sensor by pressing on the clip and took the connector, once taken everything we threw the entire module and we have it on the street: (EYE; Now we have the air intake manifold, not fall we carry anything inside the engine, I suggest putting a newspaper or something to prevent strain anything ... If sneaks uproot NO CAR, try to recover what has been dropped with a magnet or something).
http://postimage.org/image/5n4wpttgn/ (http://postimage.org/image/5n4wpttgn/)
4. Now we have to remove the EGR tube to the inlet manifold, which is where we plug the operation without affecting EGR valve lest we jump failure, for it took out the two screws that hold it, one is behind them as shown in the image.
http://postimage.org/image/9ap99mr1j/ (http://postimage.org/image/9ap99mr1j/)
5. The other is in the front, two screws are 13mm., What you see is that by not oily adjust the gasket correctly reezuma some oil fumes out there, let's not important, it's just a little spotting.
http://postimage.org/image/hexdeddgn/ (http://postimage.org/image/hexdeddgn/)
6. Once we removed the board, is the photo, careful not to drop the engine to the need to make the plate well.
http://postimage.org/image/w389pgdwn/ (http://postimage.org/image/w389pgdwn/)
7. Below I show a chop of what needs to be done, copy the whole sheet without the big hole average, 4 pin not necessary, copy the plate and screw holes have enough:
http://postimage.org/image/hml0avofb/ (http://postimage.org/image/hml0avofb/)
My comments below:
Seems simple enough and there is a heap of info about the benefits on the net....
The other thing that has come to light , it that some of the desiel additives for fuel, to offset the removal of the sulphur, are making a good difference as well... .. I am looking into that now.. will report back soon..
Cheers
Elle B
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Just reading through it now, structure is still clunky from the all-too-literal translator but the sense comes through. 'respirasemos' means 'as if we were to breathe' - just the first observation, still reading...
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I'm worried about the 0.5 mm metal plate. If you look at blanking plates on eBay, they;re much thicker. I feel exhaust could melt that plate easily. Could be a metric decimal problem :whistler:
This example is 6mm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EGR-REMOVAL-BLANKING-PLATE-KIT-MITSUBISHI-DELICA-PAJERO-CANTER-L400-L300-L200-/271145533413?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f21887fe5&_uhb=1#ht_1979wt_1139 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EGR-REMOVAL-BLANKING-PLATE-KIT-MITSUBISHI-DELICA-PAJERO-CANTER-L400-L300-L200-/271145533413?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f21887fe5&_uhb=1#ht_1979wt_1139)
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OK, here's my translation directly overtyping the Spanish, no Google. I find it really messes with my head if I try fixing Google's quirky phraseological guesswork. It's after ten and I'm starting to squint, so pardon the on-the-fly typos. I'm sure I'll find them all tomorrow. :rolleyes:
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It's a long time since I disabled it, but today I took some photos to show you how you can do this. First we're going to take some key steps , know what it is, it's purpose, the pros and cons of disabling the EGR in our car.
- What is it? The EGR valve is a solenoid that, to reduce pollution, introduces part of the gas flow from the exhaust pipe to the inlet manifold, achieving a reburn and therefore cleaner outcome. It would be something like us breathing part of our CO2 with our O2, so that we breathe bad air. The EGR funcions at low revs, from idle to 2,200 RPM approx., from this point on it remains closed.
- What's its purpose? As I've said, its funcion is to have the vehicle pollute less, complying with EURO4 and EURO5 pollution laws.
- Pros of disabling: The car breathes better, shall have somewhat more torque down low, we shall notice that taking off on incline the car takes off better, above all if we hit a speed hump in 2nd gear and try lifting (hoon?) the car. Apart from this we prolong useful engine life, since the gas flows tend to become increasingly blocked over time and kilometres. It passes inspection 100%, in diesels exhaust opacity is measured and EGR has absolutely no bearing on this.
- Cons of disabling: It will reach operating temperature more slowly, the car pollutes somewhat more...
- How to disable it? That's where we're going...
Necessary materials:
- (Metal) sheet at least 0.5mm in thickness.
- Ratchet and socket wrench 10mm. and 13mm.
- Pressure(?) pliers.
Info:
- Time taken: 1:30h. Approx.
- Estimated price: 0€.
- Difficulty: Medium, we can't forget any component as we rebuild everything, we have to pay a lot of attention to what we're doing.
We begin:
1. The first step is to dismantle the engine cover and the inlet bell (manifold?), for that we dismantle the 2 screws of the cover and the 2 of the bell, the 4 are 10mm., once off, we pull upwards on the cover to free it from behind, and to remove the bell we pull upwards at the same time as out.
2. Following on, we should remove the pipe coming from the intercooler, for that first we remove the bracket, using the pressure pliers, and once free, pull on the tube carefully to extract it:
3. Remove the air meter, for this remove the 2 10mm screws. as seen in the image, once removed disconnect the sensor by pressing the clip, once removed, pull on the whole module and it's out: (CAUTION: Now we have the inlet collector exposed, don't let anything fall into it or we will blow the motor, I advise putting newspaper or something to avoid anything getting in... If it does DONT TURN ON THE ENGINE, try recovering whatever fell in with a magnet or something).
4. Now we have to remove the EGR pipe at the inlet of the collector, which is where we can plug the operation of the EGR without affecting the valve so that we won't get caught out, for that we take out the 2 screws that hold it, one of them is behind as seen in the image:
5. The other is on the front part, both are 13mm., what you see oily is that by not getting a good join it sweats a bit of oil fumes here, no big deal, it's simply a bit stained.
6. Once removed we have the join, as in the photo, take care that it does fall against the motor because we need to use it as a mould to create one the same.
7. Following on I show you what has to be done, we have to copy the sheet fully without the big hole in the middle, the 4 flanges are not necessary, copying the sheet with hole and screw holes is sufficient:
8. We assemble everything.
With that and "a piece of cake" we have the mod done, now to enjoy our new motor :lol: .
P.S: I have my sheet available for whomever wants it they want to start making their own ahead of time and that way make the mod quicker, I'll probably pass it to Apejeje on the 22nd, when I make his sheet if you want to start asking ;) .
I hope this will help!!!
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It is very difficult for me to translate from Spanish to English, do not understand much English and can be dangerous to translate Hahahaha.
Using the Google translator and following the most or least you can understand.
The phases are:
1. Access to the valve (See Photo)
2. Remove the valve gasket.
3. Replace gasket blind.
It summarizes VERY big but pretty much that.
It should be added that in time could leave the dashboard Check Control, especially sudden changes in atmospheric pressure, but disappears after 5 starts, do not worry, I when traveling to the beach, I am in an area 1500m above sea level and less than 50km. we are on the beach, but there are no more problems.
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If what I have read elsewhere is true, i.e. that the EGR valve will remain closed while the air conditioning is on, maybe it is possible to fool the cars ECU into thinking the aircon is on all the time by connecting a 12v wire to the pin on the ECU that senses if the aircon is on or not.
I am assuming that when the aircon is active a 12v supply is fed to a specific ECU pin.
I have the Hyundai workshop manual on my laptop but for some reason the wiring diagrams won't display.
Surely, in a hot country where you would have the aircon on permanently, the EGR valve would never be operated?
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If you get your ECU remapped, you can get the Egr disabled, bypassed, what ever you want to call it. I don't see how your car takes longer to warm up, I thought engine temp was set by thermostat. Also can anybody prove our car pollutes more, if it is running & breathing more effienctly?
Wifes car just got over 1200km today, took 55lt to fill, very happy.
Just interested in different views, not having a go at anybody, just here to learn.
Cheers Bloodnut
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No doubt we would all like to see the end of EGR, myself included. The prime function of the EGR is to reduce the combustion temp inside the cylinders to reduce the amount of nitrous oxide that results from high temperature combustion of fuel / air. So no matter how much better it breathes or visibly cleaner is appears to run, too much NOx is produced which is dirty and harmful.
NOx is 298 times more greenhouse gas than CO2 So although you espouse the removal of this valve, my grandchildren will have to contend with your input.
Not having a go at you, just saying.
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I see illegal engine mods as a P-plater's preoccupation. Eventually, we come to realise that if the feature were not absolutely necessary, the car manufacturers would be eliminating them on the drawing board. If they're not doing that, it's because it is absolutely necessary, be it for performance or environmental reasons. :victory:
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Being a bit of a car nut and in particular a P nut, I do see the benefit in some automotive modifications.
For example, extractors and free flowing exhaust systems.
The car manufacturers are hog tied by restrictive legislation and also, they build down to a price, but there's no doubt that after-market improvements can be made in several areas.
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Sure improvements can be made but not often in isolation (today's cars would need a lot of retuning for some changes) and certainly not by removing EGR. :lol:
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Yes, I wasn't talking about the EGR.
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I do miss the low tech when there was enough room inside my HQ's engine bay that I could get in it when it rained and continue to tune the Weber, check the timing, etc. Life was simple back then. :victory:
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Being a bit of a car nut and in particular a P nut, I do see the benefit in some automotive modifications.
For example, extractors and free flowing exhaust systems.
The car manufacturers are hog tied by restrictive legislation and also, they build down to a price, but there's no doubt that after-market improvements can be made in several areas.
Same here, but your mods do not contribute to environmental pollution, (except noise). :lol:
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:mrgreen:
And a lovely noise I make too.
And my car.
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The mind boggles at the thought of you fitting extractors to achieve better flowthrough. :eek: