[echocae]

Hi guys.. I got my car yesterday.. and today i try to replace intercooler with the PwR TUBE & FINS intercooler



why tube and fins = improves heat transfer for less pressure drop, resulting in higher flow and reduced lag time.

here the picture atm of my car will be finish installing the intercooler either sumtimes by tuesday

[Thumper]

I am curious, why install a different intercooler?

I've found the stock one is more than adequate for the job. (In certain instances it does it's job too well. I have to block the front off to keep the engine warm. This is in weather that's under 5 degrees C.)

Also, why put a blow off valve (Air bypass valve) on a diesel? Apart from the "Look at me!" factor with the noise, what does it accomplish? Diesels by design, do not have a throttle butterfly. They run WOT (Wide Open Throttle) all the time.

A diesel changes rpm by adding more fuel in. That's all. (Unlike a petrol engine which ads fuel AND air to increase RPM)

When you back off on a turbo diesel, all the engine does is shut off the fuel. Air is still being forced through the engine and out the exhaust. (Unlike a petrol engine when you lift off the throttle)

Diesel trucks do not have any BOV fitted, because it's not needed. (Petrol engines, they are needed)

Just curious, that's all.  

Apart from that, how hard was it to remove the front bumper on the i30?

[echocae]

removal of bumper only took 3-5 min.

and i think u still have a TB in the diesel.. coz i check it today.. and also.. yeah u right about BOV - look at me factor <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt="" title="Razz" />.

and the Intercooler.. i dont think is good enough to removing all the heat

[Lakes]

removal of bumper only took 3-5 min.

and i think u still have a TB in the diesel.. coz i check it today.. and also.. yeah u right about BOV - look at me factor .

and the Intercooler.. i dont think is good enough to removing all the heat

no butterfly in that throtlebody! Thumper is right diesel's just work off fuel being injected more fuel faster the motor runs less fuel slower it run's this is why diesels do not throttle instantly like a petrol.

[Lakes]

i was looking at the air intake body and it apears there is a butterfly as i can see there is a shaft with what looks like a vacume hook up but i'm not taking the rubber hose off to look

[echocae]

there is a butterfly body on diesel.. i30 is not ordinary diesel is a CRDI engine.. and most of CRDI engine they have TB

btw my new IC nearly up

[toxxic]

there is a butterfly body on diesel.. i30 is not ordinary diesel is a CRDI engine.. and most of CRDI engine they have TB

btw my new IC nearly up

There is no "throttle" on CRDi engines... this is because diesels adjust the ammount of fuel going to the cylinder, not the ammount of air and thats how engine speed is adjusted.

[Lakes]

there is a butterfly body on diesel.. i30 is not ordinary diesel is a CRDI engine.. and most of CRDI engine they have TB

btw my new IC nearly up

There is no "throttle" on CRDi engines... this is because diesels adjust the ammount of fuel going to the cylinder, not the ammount of air and thats how engine speed is adjusted.

Toxic thats what i thought, but was looking at the air intake and looks like some type of sharft with a vacume diaphram gizmo on one side, what would that be?
Thanks

[Thumper]

Well, I'll be stuffed! (To coin an old phrase)

Guess what, our i30's do indeed have a butterfly in the inlet manifold, just like a petrol engine, but, and this is a big but, it serves a different purpose.

Upon searching technical manuals on the internet, I've found that it is part of the emission control systems.

Older diesels did not employ any form of throttle butterfly.

New diesels can now have a butterfly (Like a throttle butterfly) that can act in two ways.

1)

Soot catcher purgative diesel engine intake throttle valve

A method for controlling intake throttling for a diesel engine provided with an exhaust gas soot catcher, which also has an intake throttling valve for restricting intake air, thus heating the exhaust gases for purging the soot catcher. The intake throttling valve is controlled by selecting a target opening amount for the intake throttling valve, and by altering the actual opening amount of the intake throttling valve.

2)

Electronic throttle valve from Pierburg

As exhaust emissions regulations become more stringent, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is expected to become a standard feature on diesels in virtually all applications. For the same reason, electronic engine management is being used on more and more engines and it is a logical step to integrate control of EGR into the engine's electronic control unit.

Responding to this trend, EGR valve specialist Pierburg AG, of Germany, has developed an advanced design butterfly throttle valve for diesels. This valve features precise proportional control of the valve and high resistance to the effects of the recirculating exhaust gases.

So, in the first instance, this valve can restrict air flow through the engine (Off throttle) to help super heat the exhaust air, so it can then burn off any carbon 'soot' in the PF.

Second instance, the valve can be closed during off throttle applications (Like coasting down a long hill) creating vacuum in the inlet manifold, which in turn helps suck exhaust gas from the EGR (Exhaust Gas Reticulation) valve, back through the engine.

Well I'll be, learn something new everyday!  

Ignorant Bob here.  Correct me if I am wrong.  i30 has variable geometry turbo.  I thought this would mean no need for blow off as the turbo pressure is controlled through variable geometry turbo technology.  This type of turbo (from what I have read), also delivers maximum torque over a broader rev range.

My experience with the i30 confirms what thumper has found, namely when the ambient temp is low, the intercooler runs too cold.  I've tried the experiment of blocking off the intercooler fins as well with some success. Even in hot weather (and we had some in March) I have found the top of the intercooler to be cool to touch.  Seems very efficient to me.

Not tryint to pick an argument here, just trying to present the alternative.

Bob

[Dazzler]

Maybe we need to say a little sorry to Echo ..

Sorry echo (you were right about the throttle butterfly)...

[echocae]

Maybe we need to say a little sorry to Echo ..

Sorry echo (you were right about the throttle butterfly)... ... as you know i like working on the engine <-- and yes i know is useless for automatic.. but it still can produce the SWOOOSH SOUND

as the intercooler I try to replace it with Tube n Fins intercooler.. the reason is i dont want to use a SILICON HOSE for piping and also.. looks good.. as for the cooling yes i notice that when diesel run in cold weather.. it use a lot of fuel.. But my intercooler is move infront of RADIATOR which is make the engine HOTTER as the air passed the intercooler.

[Lakes]

Be careful what you say here boyz as there is a spy from the Mazda club  
cheers

[echocae]

Be careful what you say here boyz as there is a spy from the Mazda club  
cheers

Mazda club? lol

[echocae]

here.. the finish product... sorry got no camera at that time use Phone camera... also notice i remove the front Hyundai Logo

[Shambles]

here.. the finish product... sorry got no camera at that time use Phone camera... also notice i remove the front Hyundai Logo

It's become a.. err..  ferrari    

You removed the front fogs too?

Jeebers

[CHB]

looks good mate

[echocae]

yeah.. its pretty good.. and the car i think more efficent a bit in automatic

[Thumper]

Right, after chatting with another mechanic, I think we've found out what this 'throttle butterfly' is.

I thought it had something to do with the EGR valve, closing slightly to create vacuum to suck the exhaust through the EGR valve at a greater rate.

Yet, it looks like it may have another use.

Engine shutdown valve.

This butterfly stops the air stream into the motor when you switch off the 'ignition', thus preventing any form of 'run-away' where a diesel can continue to run, without fuel, by sucking up the crankcase oil, burning it, instead of diesel fuel. (Also helps stopping the engine completely)

I could be used in both of these cases.

Until someone can acquire a technical manual for this vehicle, we can only speculate!  

[Shambles]

Sounds entirely feasible Thumper

Good sleuthin'

[Lakes]

Thumper i think i'll take that gizmo off if my motor will run for free no fuel
Cheers

[Thumper]

Umm, no!  

Have a read here about Diesel Run-Away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway

[Shambles]

Have a read here about Diesel Run-Away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway

Jeebers crackers    

What a shocking scenario that article paints  :o

[Lakes]

Hey Shambles, you would not have to worry about that m8, i've seen large diesel truck motors that have over a million kilometers up still going strong.
probably could happen with old tractors and so on but would need a lot of wear in the bore.

a scary motor is a Nitro burner! some you can't control engine speed if you rev them too high.

[toxxic]

Hey Shambles, you would not have to worry about that m8, i've seen large diesel truck motors that have over a million kilometers up still going strong.
probably could happen with old tractors and so on but would need a lot of wear in the bore.

a scary motor is a Nitro burner! some you can't control engine speed if you rev them too high.

Dieeling can happen on any modern diesel engine, all you need is the slightest ammount of oil in the intake for it too overrev and bang your turbo will shit itself, or a abit of valve bounce and the oil floodgates will open, iv seen a mercedes 2.2litre turbo diesel do this at worl, the slightest bit of oil was left in the intercooler after we put a new turbo in (old one ate itself and shot diesel everwhere) and it was idling away burning off all the old oil in the intake, next thing u know the idiot boss decided it would be fun too rev it up, bad idea. SLight bit of over revving, valve bounce, turbo bearlings failed, ate itself but thi time it shat oil everywhere which was promptly eaten by the engine, engine speed increased and increased till it siezed. Quite a sound, boss went pretty red.

On the topic of BOV, utterly useless, dont bother mate.

[Lakes]

Hey Shambles, you would not have to worry about that m8, i've seen large diesel truck motors that have over a million kilometers up still going strong.
probably could happen with old tractors and so on but would need a lot of wear in the bore.

a scary motor is a Nitro burner! some you can't control engine speed if you rev them too high.

Dieeling can happen on any modern diesel engine, all you need is the slightest ammount of oil in the intake for it too overrev and bang your turbo will shit itself, or a abit of valve bounce and the oil floodgates will open, iv seen a mercedes 2.2litre turbo diesel do this at worl, the slightest bit of oil was left in the intercooler after we put a new turbo in (old one ate itself and shot diesel everwhere) and it was idling away burning off all the old oil in the intake, next thing u know the idiot boss decided it would be fun too rev it up, bad idea. SLight bit of over revving, valve bounce, turbo bearlings failed, ate itself but thi time it shat oil everywhere which was promptly eaten by the engine, engine speed increased and increased till it siezed. Quite a sound, boss went pretty red.

On the topic of BOV, utterly useless, dont bother mate.

Nothing like first hand experience!
Hey Toxxic, Do the Mercedes use ball bearing's in there Turbo?
i think the turbo the i30 has uses ball bearings.

[Martin]

here.. the finish product... sorry got no camera at that time use Phone camera... also notice i remove the front Hyundai Logo

That is the funniest piece of photochopping I have ever seen  

[LuciferDarklord]

Bit off topic here, But the first of the HiLux diesels are notorious for 'taking off' on crankcase oil when the rings are worn.  Also old model VW golfs etc can get a pool of oil in the intake manifold from blow-by.  Go around a fast corner, all the oil sloshes into the engine - YEE-HAW!  The old "Screaming Gemmy" GM 2 stroke diesels also have a problem with sticking injector racks in the unit injector, preventing the governor from controlling the engine.  They have an emergency flap to cover the intake on the blower to make up for this trait.  Wanna get back at someone with a diesel 4wd with a snorkel?  Pour a litre or so of oil into the snorkel!

[toxxic]

Nothing like first hand experience!
Hey Toxxic, Do the Mercedes use ball bearing's in there Turbo?
i think the turbo the i30 has uses ball bearings.[/quote]


Yeah they use ball bearing VVG turbos in all new diesels, older ones are just normal ball bearing turbos. No cheap crap here... oh wait!

Not sure about the i30, i would assume its ball bearing because of such high rpm and pressures... Must be a decent little turbo.

Intercooler replacet in the i30 seems like pretty pointless, intake temps are already quite low (too low in some cases - winter mornings), with a stock turbo on stock boost - all you're gonna do is get more turbo lag and upset the computer! Even with more boost still pointless as the stock unit seems very efficient.

It seems like the best way to upgrade power is for a ecu reprogram.

And that butterfly is for the emmissions. A common design on most modern diesels, mercedes use a after the turbo just before the intake manifold. Not there to stop runon and I doubt it would stop, it would probably just snap.

[Dazzler]

Hi Toxxic

Nice to see you on the site..