[Martin]

We have had our company i30 now for some 3000km which is a good length of time for the little 1.6 turbo diesel engine to be run in. Its been returning 1000km of diesel for a full tank so the economy has been good...now to start the power up!

Excellent standard KW and NM for a stock turbo diesel 1600cc engine, thats for sure with a nice steady ramp, and dare I say it for a diesel a half decent rev range that makes the car a good little torque steerer and performer on the road...however that won't do for too long

[DeathRattle]

So looking at those charts, the turbo is generating about 17psi.
Interesting.

[Martin]

Its the Green line on the sheet, so try 19psi peak boost

[Medic01]

so this is a "stock" car on the dyno
64kw dosen't seem like a great deal, my accent makes 65Kw at the wheels and it's NA, not turbo.

but i wonder how much more you can squeeze out of it when you wind up the boost, and have something like a front mount cooler and everso slightly larger exhaust.

easy 100kw ATW anyone ?

[blawler]

i dont think testing on that car is a fair comparison. Because its white, and everyone knows the white car is faster out of the factory

Medic01,

Your Accent is a petrol.  If you compare the Kw of any diesel with a petrol, the diesel has lower Kw for the same sized motor.  Diesels are about better torque.  When you make a comparison of torque, then it is another matter.

Bob

[i30manUK]

WARRANTY QUESTION...

Martin, I asked in one of your previous topics on this subject if you have opened up the i30 engine to see if the internals are strong enough to take the kind of increases in power you claim for your product. Your answer (which was a generalised assertion, 'manufacturers normally allow tolerances so they can gradually tweak the engines themselves' kind of answer) leads me to believe that you haven't actually looked at the internals. I hope I'm wrong, but until you actually confirm that you have, I assume you haven't.

My question is this - As fitting your modification to an existing i30 would invalidate the Hyundai warranty, do you offer a comprehensive guarantee to anyone buying your product, if their engine is damaged as a result of fitting/using your product? ...and what would that guarantee cover?

The reason I ask is that (contrary to your assertion) I know that some manufacturers tweak their engines to the maximum, in order get the most power out of them (my 350z is a perfect example of this) and that any extra strain on the internals, caused by increased turbo power, can run the risk of causing catastrophic internal damage - I know this for a fact.

So - straight answers to a couple of simple questions please? This is your opportunity to reassure worriers like me!

[Martin]

Of course we havent pulled apart an i30CRDi engine to have a look at it 8-)

As for the 350Z where do we start......this is not a new subject for us.
Ham fisted modifications, over boosting, too many rpm, oil starvation, and detonation are the keys behind the failure of the 350Z engines over the years. The internals aren't at their limit, they are simply designed to live in a given detonation free operating condition, and because there has been very little PROPER tuning for the Z PCM those using Piggy Backs have simply pushed too hard and paid the price. Consider the Z engine reasonably stressed, and then figure that most of the breakages have been from those wanting 70% - 100% power increase. Consider the slow revving small turbo i30, and that we are asking 15% - 20% with a proper tuning method. Its all good  

[i30manUK]

Martin, I notice that you have not answered my straightforward questions about the warranty you offer (if indeed you offer one). I suppose I must draw my own conclusions from that. I would imagine that anyone else considering investing in your product would be wise to ask if there is a warranty and if so, what it does and does not cover. I would also have thought that a supplier would be keen to let potential customers know about their warranty.

As for the rest of your reply, I don't see why you used the 'shocked' smilie just because I asked if you have looked inside an i30 engine - I would have thought that someone in your line of business would want to know as much as possible about the internals before selling something that puts more stress on them.

...and the internally wrecked 350z's I have in mind weren't 'piggy-backed' - they had twin turbos professionally installed that were sourced from an Australian company (not yours). It's a little rash of you to assume that the mods I allude to were 'ham-fisted' when you're not aware of them. Also the power gains these people were after were in the region of 33% (300bhp to 400bhp)- not 70-100% as you wrongly guessed - not a million miles away from the gains you claim for your own add-on.

I'd just warn anyone considering increasing the power of their engines to look at the wider picture and not rely solely on the claims of the person selling it - and for godsake ask lots of questions before commiting yourself.





ps - at 140bhp, and as it's the wife's car, I SHALL be leaving it 'stock as a rock' as you put it. It's a runabout ffs. Any more power and I'd need to give the car some proper springs to stop it falling over when cornering! Brakes are OK though.

[LuciferDarklord]

Opening up the engine is not going to tell you anything!?!?  The only real way to find out, other than having access to Hyundai Engineer's design criteria and tolerances, is to push some engines until they break, and get an idea of the weakest point.  I dont think Martin has the budget to re-engineer then engine, just rearrange some of the compromises that the factory engineers have to deal with.

[Martin]

Martin, I notice that you have not answered my straightforward questions about the warranty you offer (if indeed you offer one). I suppose I must draw my own conclusions from that. I would imagine that anyone else considering investing in your product would be wise to ask if there is a warranty and if so, what it does and does not cover. I would also have thought that a supplier would be keen to let potential customers know about their warranty.

What do you think a PCM upgrade warranty will cover - workmanship and installation of the PCM upgrade....

Also the power gains these people were after were in the region of 33% (300bhp to 400bhp)- not 70-100% as you wrongly guessed - not a million miles away from the gains you claim for your own add-on.

Fitting an aftermarket twin turbo kit, fuel system, management system, and exhaust system to a normally aspirated 350Z for $10,000+ is far removed from reprogramming the factory controller in an i30, no matter how you look at it    :roll:

[Martin]

Opening up the engine is not going to tell you anything!?!?  The only real way to find out, other than having access to Hyundai Engineer's design criteria and tolerances, is to push some engines until they break, and get an idea of the weakest point.

'Looking' at it wont tell you anything.
The smartest way to do it is to leave the factory protections in place and allow the engine to boost and make power to the limits that are already in the PCM. Its not really difficult to understand, but, it obviously can be  

[Thumper]

Running an engine at 10/10ths, only to rely on factory protection systems.......... I am gobsmacked!  

Sorry Martin, this is one modification I will not allow you to perform on my own vehicle.

[i30manUK]

Opening up the engine is not going to tell you anything!?!?

Hmmmmmmmmm, I have to disagree with you there. Opening up the engine will tell you what the components are made of. If you know your stuff you will be able to make an informed guess as to whether they're strong enough to take the extra abuse you're planning for them. A friend of mine has increased the power of one of his engines from 276bhp to 580bhp+ with no ill effects, but he's had to have a complete internal rebuild using stronger components. Not cheap!


Martin - Thanks for answering my warranty question. Just a small point - neither of my Zeds have blown up, because they're looked after and they haven't had engine mods done to them    I was referring to cars owned by people I know. Jumping to conclusions again - tut tut, naughty boy!

...and personally I think there are relevant similarities between increasing the power to an i30 engine and increasing the power to a 350z engine (or indeed any engine) - but I suppose we'll just have to agree to differ on that one. Hope you don't mind the cross-questioning, but I think it's only fair that if you promote your product on an owners' forum that you're prepared to answer questions about it. I'm sure you know that already though.

[Lakes]

i help my friends that race Nitro Burners. the motors do not last long. it's a good way to learn the limits.
the crank & the rods have to be able to withstand a lot, same as the pistons and the pin. the diesel would probably need around 280 pound of cranking pressure just to burn the charge, so if you turn up the boost you increase dynamic compression. so just a bit more force down on the piston, piston pin, rods and bearing's, and i would guess they would only use a cast crank.
but like Martin said he keeps factory limits set so i can't see a problem. the engineers design them to take these limits with ease.

[Martin]

Sorry Martin, this is one modification I will not allow you to perform on my own vehicle.

No worries Thumper, Im pretty sure you were never in the market for it. The exhaust provided enough of a gain for you

[Martin]

Hmmmmmmmmm, I have to disagree with you there. Opening up the engine will tell you what the components are made of.

Only if you have Supermans X-ray vision