Labouring/lack of power

h20melon · **January 17, 2013, 09:08:29**

Hi,

I have had a problem with my car for about 500km's now and was wondering if anyone knows what might be happening before I hand it to Hyundai to investigate:

When accelerating at a normal or harder than normal (like taking off at lights getting up to 80km/h, or through a round-a-bout), as the engine passes through 1800-2000 rev range the car labours and vibrates. It doesn't happen in 1st or 2nd but usually after changing from 2nd (2500RPM) into 3rd (drops to 1500RPM) and the higher gears. Also when in 5th at 80km/h, going up hills that the car would normally find ok, I now have to drop down a gear (I'm Wollongong based for those who know of Mt Ousley), and the same with some 60km/h hills. Sometimes the vibrations go through the steering wheel and the dash shakes. If I accelerate like a granny, it doesn't show the symptoms, but still the lacking in power in the range lower than 2000RPM.

Any thoughts?

The dealer said that it will cost me $130 if they find the problem is not warranty related (like fuel or air filter).

The air filter looks a little dirty, which I will be changing tomorrow, but the light hasn't come on for any water in the fuel filter. I've been filling up at the same servo for the past 22000km's and have had no problems yet.

Thanks

Car is a 2011 CRDI CW.

**Reply #1: January 17, 2013, 09:40:06**

Dump the dealer... that's a poor response.

Dazzler · **Reply #2: January 17, 2013, 10:01:55**

Quote from: Pip on January 17, 2013, 09:40:06

Dump the dealer... that's a poor response.

Not good ..

(I'm guessing you don't have an alternative dealer in Wollongong though)

Hopefully we can come up with some suggestions that will help diagnose it

h20melon · **Reply #3: January 17, 2013, 11:04:21**

Yeah unfortunately there are only 2 Hyundai dealers in Wollongong, so no choice.

We'll see if anyone comes up with any suggestions, otherwise I will report the problem here for future reference.

Dazzler · **Reply #4: January 17, 2013, 11:12:41**

It does sound like a fuel system issue to me (but more likely one covered by the warranty)

**Reply #5: January 17, 2013, 11:24:30**

Quote from: h20melon on January 17, 2013, 11:04:21

Yeah unfortunately there are only 2 Hyundai dealers in Wollongong, so no choice.

Huh?

komaterpillar · **Reply #6: January 17, 2013, 12:04:06**

Gday

This is an odd one, my first thoughts are that because the check engine light hasn't come up it makes me think it may be a mechanical failure of some sort, as in something has failed that the ecu can't pick up and all it's inputs are still within the parameters.

First thing that springs to mind might be the stepper motor that controls the variable geometry turbo may have failed or the link between the stepper motor and the ring of secondary vanes in the turbo may have failed. This would give the symptoms that you describe ie. fine in 1st and 2nd, but problematic in higher gears (under normal driving you would require minimal boost, but higher gears labour the engine more requiring more boost).

Also supporting this is how you say that if you drive it like a granny the problem is not there ie. don't require boost.

The vibrating I think is just the engine laboring because quite simply without the boost it's not making enough ponies.

You say it's worst between 1800 and 2000 and upwards from there, wich is when it would be making some real boost

If this is the problem, I doubt it would bring up a check engine light because the ecu would still think its turning the stepper motor, but it may throw a code something along the lines of "MAP sensor out of range" or something similar

Could also be a dud MAP sensor not seeing the boost being created, and therefore not telling the ecu to increase the fuel rate to suit wich would also sit well with your symptoms. this probably wouldn't bring up the check engine light but would almost definitely throw a code.

So in my opinion it's boost related

Either way both of these should be warranty.

Just an assumption but, I doubt it's fuel related because your first indicator would of been the fuel light, wich would tell you either your filter is clogged or there's water in the water trap, and this hasn't happened.

My course of action would be, if worried about Hyundai stinging you $130 just to diagnose it (if it's not warranty) would be shop around at independent mechanics and get them to plug in a scan tool and see what's going on, should only be about 50 bucks. Then go to Hyundai with the results.

Good luck

*also just thought it could be the EGR valve carboned up and stuck open, this would make it underpowered and probably wouldn't throw a code or check engine light.

Fingers crossed for something simple

Phil №❶ · **Reply #7: January 17, 2013, 12:11:40**

Keith · **Reply #8: January 17, 2013, 12:12:46**

I'd say EGR, sounds almost exactly like the symptoms I had in my Fiat diesel when the EGR clogged up.

komaterpillar · **Reply #9: January 17, 2013, 12:20:52**

Anyone know if a carboned up EGR is under warranty? Because really the valve hasn't failed it's just full of shite. Reckon they would would try and claim wear and tear from driving style or something else?

Keith · **Reply #10: January 17, 2013, 12:27:23**

Quote from: komaterpillar on January 17, 2013, 12:20:52

Anyone know if a carboned up EGR is under warranty? Because really the valve hasn't failed it's just full of shite. Reckon they would would try and claim wear and tear from driving style or something else?

I guess there may be an argument in that the valve should be designed & made not to crud up... but thats a toughie... however some smart ass devised a blocking plate for the 1.9 diesel Fiat engine with 3 holes drilled in it. It was called a "swirl gasket" and was fitted in-line with the EGR to speed up gas flow & reduce the amount of carbon that could settle in the valve itself. Others just blocked the EGR off leading to endless debate about the impacts of doing that to both the engine AND the environment.

Shambles · **Reply #11: January 17, 2013, 12:54:30**

Well, as the EGR valve doesn't form part of any service schedule I've ever had, I would imagine it's not meant to clog up, and should be desooted under warranty.

But I like the boost theory too

Great posts Brett, me old boostmeister

Keith · **Reply #12: January 17, 2013, 13:18:47**

Quote from: Shambles on January 17, 2013, 12:54:30

"as the EGR valve doesn't form part of any service schedule I've ever had, I would imagine it's not meant to clog up, and should be desooted under warranty.

Good luck with that Steve!

eye30 · **Reply #13: January 17, 2013, 14:58:07**

Besides what has been posted isn't there a system in place that restricts rpm/speed, sort of get me home system, if there is an engine problem.

Keith · **Reply #14: January 17, 2013, 15:25:25**

Quote from: eye30 on January 17, 2013, 14:58:07

Besides what has been posted isn't there a system in place that restricts rpm/speed, sort of get me home system, if there is an engine problem.

Limp Home mode?

eye30 · **Reply #15: January 17, 2013, 15:29:36**

Quote from: Ffoxy on January 17, 2013, 15:25:25

Quote from: eye30 on January 17, 2013, 14:58:07
Besides what has been posted isn't there a system in place that restricts rpm/speed, sort of get me home system, if there is an engine problem.

Limp Home mode?

Yes that's the phrase I was looking for --- Thanks Ff

komaterpillar · **Reply #16: January 17, 2013, 20:55:44**

wouldn't limp home mode bring up the check engine light?

i don't think its limp home mode because it derates the engine to a preset rpm. whereas i understand the OP's engine goes through the whole rev range, just with no power.

h20melon · **Reply #17: January 17, 2013, 21:05:18**

Thanks guys.

komaterpillar: I was thinking that there could be something wrong with the turbo, as it is in the range when it should come on.

The guy at the service place didn't mention ERG valves when I asked him what wasn't covered by warranty - he only mentioned fuel and air filter.

**Reply #18: January 18, 2013, 03:17:09**

Quote from: komaterpillar on January 17, 2013, 20:55:44

wouldn't limp home mode bring up the check engine light?

Not sure about this. Back in 2008 ouri30 went into limp home mode and there was no engine warning light. It was before I had a Scangauge so I couldn't check for errors. (It ended up being a faulty sensor in the fuel filter that registered air in the fuel that wasn't there.)

What I am saying is, not all errors activate the warning light.

h20melon · **Reply #19: January 24, 2013, 06:46:17**

Just got the car back from the dealer. They could not find a problem with the engine, and that it was working fine.

They did fix the indicators as both flash as it autmatically switches off, and am getting a new radio because it gets 10 minutes fast within 2 weeks.

I'll keep driving like I have been and I guess if there's damage or anything then they had been warned.

Dazzler · **Reply #20: January 24, 2013, 06:59:02**

Quote from: h20melon on January 24, 2013, 06:46:17

Just got the car back from the dealer. They could not find a problem with the engine, and that it was working fine.

Sound very frustrating to me. Maybe we have an active member that lives near you that has a similar vehicle so you can do a comparison with their help

Doggie 1 · **Reply #21: January 24, 2013, 07:39:55**

Quote from: Dazzler on January 24, 2013, 06:59:02

Quote from: h20melon on January 24, 2013, 06:46:17
Just got the car back from the dealer. They could not find a problem with the engine, and that it was working fine.

Sound very frustrating to me. Maybe we have an active member that lives near you that has a similar vehicle so you can do a comparison with their help

Great idea.

h20melon · **Reply #22: January 24, 2013, 23:26:21**

yeah I was thinking about finding a smiliar car at a car yard to take for a test drive to see what it does.

Dazzler · **Reply #23: January 25, 2013, 00:23:58**

Quote from: h20melon on January 24, 2013, 23:26:21

yeah I was thinking about finding a smiliar car at a car yard to take for a test drive to see what it does.

That's a good idea too..

panda · **Reply #24: January 26, 2013, 02:43:37**

I live near you and haven't taken mine up Mt Ousley yet. My Mum drove the new petrol version up there to test drive it before she bought it without a problem. Neither of us own the diesel model though. I think your idea of taking another one for a test drive to compare is a good one

h20melon · **Reply #25: July 20, 2013, 01:32:28**

Update:

Haven't had time to test drive another car over the past 6 months, but did get the car serviced yesterday at Kmart.

I mentioned to the mechanic about the problem so he could check it out on his test drive.

They were able to replicate the problem of the labouring/vibration between 1300-2000RPM, which was good, and they have written it on the invoice.

So now I can book into Hyundai for this recall with the switch, and for them to fix the problem. At least then, they cannot try and charge me for their time.

If it takes longer than a day to find and fix, then I will be demanding a loan car so I can get to work.

h20melon · **Reply #26: August 02, 2013, 08:14:07**

Another update:

I booked the car into Wollongong Hyundai for today and when I dropped the car off the mechanic suggested that he would go for a drive in it up Mt Ousley (with me in passenger seat).

Anyway, he did notice this vibration coming from the car, and he did some harder driving etc.. and could replicate what I experience.

I left the car with them (appt. was for 8am) and they said to come back at 12noon. I came back when told, only to find out that they had only allocated 1 hour to look at the problem, and they couldn't find what was causing it and for me to book in again so they could have more time to look at it... I said to them why did I need to come back at 12noon when they could have kept looking for the cause?????? their reply: they were booked out...

I just don't get them... now I have to waste another day in dropping the car off to them and a day without a car. They outright refused to give me a courtesy car as they cannot tell me if it is warranty related or not (and they still pointed out they want to charge if they don't find it warranty related!). I suggested they can pick up the car from my work (leaving their car there) and drop it off at the end of the day - an out right no to that one as well.

It could be another 6 months before I get time to drop the car of and waste a day, and they said that's fine - I have plenty of warranty left....

Strange people that work for Hyundai.

oh and the main thing that the car went in for was to replace this faulty switch that I had the recall from and they didn't even do that, which I demanded them to do at the very least "it only takes 15 minutes to replace" (/me bashing my head against a brick wall....)

anyway: my rant is over, now to look at when I can book in next... next thing they will tell me is that it is not a warranty problem.

Phil №❶ · **Reply #27: August 02, 2013, 08:36:31**

That is downright disgraceful behaviour. You need to report this to the Dealer Principal and give him the opportunity to fix. If he is unable, then report to Hy Head Office, they don't deserve the franchise. Look for somewhere else to go as well.

rustynutz · **Reply #28: August 02, 2013, 08:49:35**

While I feel your pain I do see the dealer's side of things too.

They have other customers who also think they should have priority so it's a constant juggling act to try to keep everyone happy.

As for the switch, unless it's actually failed there is no real rush to swap it over. Basically wouldn't you prefer they spent the allotted time fixing or at least attempting to fix the vibration problem than wasting part of that time replacing the switch?

h20melon · **Reply #29: August 02, 2013, 09:02:57**

Unfortunately only 2 HY dealers around - Wollongong and Albion Park Rail (who 7 months ago said the car drove fine - ie: there was no problem).

As to the switch - there really is no indication from the drivers seat that the switch has failed as apparently it is connected to the brake lights (that's what my letter from HY said anyway. In my eyes out of the 2 problems that the car went in for they did not even try and fix one of them - ie: the car may as well have stayed in the car park.

What did they expect to achieve in only 1 hour of fault finding? when 20mins of that was test driving.