[Lachiepower0402]

Just thought I'd add in a few details

I work at a Hyundai dealership, we have previously had a i30 sr with the same fault as described by the customer, not starting after >30min drives, but starting the second time.

The tech working on the job was never able to fault it, however the customer provided videos, we were not able to drive it long enough. But the low pressure fuel pump (in tank) had already been replaced with no change.

We attempted to swap a high pressure fuel pump from a working vehicle which had no effect either.

[tw2005]

Just thought I'd add in a few details

I work at a Hyundai dealership, we have previously had a i30 sr with the same fault as described by the customer, not starting after >30min drives, but starting the second time.

The tech working on the job was never able to fault it, however the customer provided videos, we were not able to drive it long enough. But the low pressure fuel pump (in tank) had already been replaced with no change.

We attempted to swap a high pressure fuel pump from a working vehicle which had no effect either.

Always good to have some insight, I guess the real question people would like to know is what's happening in the background to find a fix?

Not something we can expect you to answer now you've identified yourself.

I remember several years ago when i was in battle with Mitsubishi chatting with a senior tech highlighting the value of data logging.

he remembered a Lancer which had an engine management issue, can't remember the exact detail. could not fault, over and over. after several weeks of logging and the customer managing to replicate the fault, they discovered this person just happened to drive the vehicle in such a manner to trigger the event.

end result was a software update being released.

I just can't imagine with these vehicles being so new that it's a component issue, more a glitch.

Is it not possible to get intothe live data and see what's enabled and what's not?

how many sensors can be monitored?

fuel pressure
injector trigger
immobiliser
crank and cam sensors
spark

It's cranking so what's missing?

[lukeee]

I personally think this is an engine management/sensor related problem. We would have a much different tune if there were some professionalism attached to the approach from head office and unnamed dealership.

It is very very clear to see that we have been filed in the top hard basket.

I appreciate they gave the tool to use, however we are yet to find the result from recording said problem. I’m going on a rampage if this comes back as inconclusive.

[Lachiepower0402]

ATM nothing as the customer took their vehicle back as they needed it, we were never able to fault the vehicle in the shop or when running a data logger on it overnight, the tech spoke to Hyundai for possibilities to trigger the issue, which involved spritied driving, etc, still no fault, expect customer still noticed it. So it seemed to be very intermittent.

We also hooked up a fuel pressure guage overnight to see if it was loosing pressure making a longer crank.

Also every sensor on the vehicle can be monitored and viewed live, just not very useful until the fault occurs.

We found the best temporary fix was to press the start button twice without pressing the brake to turn the igniton on (until the dash light up), allow the fuel pump to prime, then start the car, seemed to work every time.

[Lachiepower0402]

Honestly, I can only see the problem now as trying to start the car before it get time to prime the high pressure pump enough to inject. If anyone who is currently experiencing the issue could try what I described in the previous post (turning on ignition before cranking) and report back it would interesting to know what happens.

[jamcat102]

But its not normal and we shouldn't have to prime things. I have been dealing with Hyundai for 8 weeks about this. I think they are just unable to resolve the issue and are keep pushing it thinking i will give up. Fair trading has offered to step in but i will need to go to tribunal for this. I have to monitor my car with the flight recorder until Monday 30/04. Hopefully i can catch some data.

[tw2005]

ATM nothing as the customer took their vehicle back as they needed it, we were never able to fault the vehicle in the shop or when running a data logger on it overnight, the tech spoke to Hyundai for possibilities to trigger the issue, which involved spritied driving, etc, still no fault, expect customer still noticed it. So it seemed to be very intermittent.

We also hooked up a fuel pressure guage overnight to see if it was loosing pressure making a longer crank.

Also every sensor on the vehicle can be monitored and viewed live, just not very useful until the fault occurs.

We found the best temporary fix was to press the start button twice without pressing the brake to turn the igniton on (until the dash light up), allow the fuel pump to prime, then start the car, seemed to work every time.

Well every techs nightmare but also a good challenge and chance to be a hero. Next thought is can a more permanent logger be fitted like a blackbox which will continually grab data and then be uploaded until such time the event occurs?

Any chance( unless it's classified) you can give a quick shake down on what those loggers can capture ? are they grabbing all data or just any codes triggered?

[Lachiepower0402]

While I understand it's not normal to have to prime before start I wouldn't be able to tell you anymore, the car had left the workshop and honestly no one is interested in something that isn't of concern anymore, except me, I am about to lay down some cash for one so only interested as it's starting to become a common issue.

I would personally say it's not something mechanical because as I stated in a previous post we replaced the high pressure pump from a another vehicle and no change, it is most likely software/firmware which Hyundai will need to look into further.

With the flight recorder's, they record all the current data from all systems and modules of the vehicle and also any fault codes put in current including time and date. Besides the AutoLink Module their isn't any permenent blackbox available that would be able to give the detail the flight recorder can.

[Lachiepower0402]

Just decided to look on the hotline as their is one example of a paritally solved case, it relates to a short to ground. Refer to attached picture for screenshot

[tw2005]

While I understand it's not normal to have to prime before start I wouldn't be able to tell you anymore, the car had left the workshop and honestly no one is interested in something that isn't of concern anymore, except me, I am about to lay down some cash for one so only interested as it's starting to become a common issue.

I would personally say it's not something mechanical because as I stated in a previous post we replaced the high pressure pump from a another vehicle and no change, it is most likely software/firmware which Hyundai will need to look into further.

With the flight recorder's, they record all the current data from all systems and modules of the vehicle and also any fault codes put in current including time and date. Besides the AutoLink Module their isn't any permenent blackbox available that would be able to give the detail the flight recorder can.

They often say you never buy the first series in a new model, anyway if it's on the increase I'd expect some busy engineers in the background working it.  Brother in law just got himself a DCT CRDi. heard nothing bad yet. And I keep bragging about the 383000K FD example I keep trucking in. 

Thanks for the contribution

[Lachiepower0402]

Attached link is the pdf of the repaired wiring digram

i30.pdf - Google Drive

[Dazzler]

@Lachiepower0402

Thanks very much for the info. Your feedback is very helpful. 

[nzenigma]

@Lachiepower0402  Hi from me and  As Tw and Dazz have said, thankyou for your input.
 The problem you are trying to solve used to have a term in the electronic trade of " Dog fault"...you have to put it in a corner with instruments attached until the fault occurs and adjust the instruments to narrow down the area of concern. This can take days or weeks.

Someone in Hyundai has to have the initiative to retrieve  one or two of the complainants cars and give them a replacement. Then high level techs need to take charge of diagnosis.

Ive looked at the screenshots above and while I don't want to knock the repairer,   I am a bit confused. Is this the same fault?
If he had a "short to ground at pin5 E44" the relay(E44) would not pull in , therefore no starter motor action.
He hasn't explored the harness to find a very intermittent fault which occurs while the starter is cranking.

[Lachiepower0402]

@Lachiepower0402  Hi from me and  As Tw and Dazz have said, thankyou for your input.
 The problem you are trying to solve used to have a term in the electronic trade of " Dog fault"...you have to put it in a corner with instruments attached until the fault occurs and adjust the instruments to narrow down the area of concern. This can take days or weeks.

Someone in Hyundai has to have the initiative to retrieve  one or two of the complainants cars and give them a replacement. Then high level techs need to take charge of diagnosis.

Ive looked at the screenshots above and while I don't want to knock the repairer,   I am a bit confused. Is this the same fault?
If he had a "short to ground at pin5 E44" the relay(E44) would not pull in , therefore no starter motor action.
He hasn't explored the harness to find a very intermittent fault which occurs while the starter is cranking.

That's basically how its going at the moment, but the customer has taken the car back with nothing being done, so we can't continue until he brings it back again if it occurs again.

I can see what you mean once I look at it, without power at that pin nothing would happen, not even crank, he way of just seen something and gone with it, then it worked since it is a temporary issue. I'm pretty sure the customer will be getting a complete new wiring harness in that case, so I guess I'll see what happens

[Beardyboy]

I'm having exactly the same intermittent problem with my 2018 SR auto.

Like you, first start of the day is perfect, then every once in a while after being left for 30mins or so, the engine turns over but doesn't fire.its happened about 5 times in the past 3 weeks. it sounds to me like the car is starved of fuel. im wondering if its the ignition coil or an issue with the spark plugs of leads

My dealer has tested and can't find an issue as yet and there are no fault codes either.

im just monitoring it and plan to video the 'starting'  to try and capture what happens

[nzenigma]

Sorry to hear about your problem. But, you have joined a growing chorus .  We can only catalogue  all the complaints and wait for  Hyundai  respond  in a professional manner.
It would be reasonable, armed with all this info., that you owners stop taking your faulty cars back; instead demand a replacement vehicle.

[Hati]

So far this issue is restricted to the SR (petrol) models. Is that right?

[Dazzler]

I will attempt to escalate this by sending a link to this thread to Hyundai Australia.

Obviously, being an SR "auto" owner I have a vested interest.

It has now become common enough that Hyundai Head Office needs to get involved to cut it off at the pass before it has a detrimental effect on the reputation of an otherwise excellent vehicle.

New owners should not have to deal with an issue like this in this day and age.

So far this issue is restricted to the SR (petrol) models. Is that right?

Yes Hati that is correct.

[Dazzler]

This is what I just sent them...

Hi,

 I am the co-founder and Administrator of the worldwide i30 Owners club. I am based in Devonport Tasmania and have an i30 SR (DCT) which is our 4th i30 since 2008.

While I don't have any major issues with my vehicle we are having a number of Members with a relatively major issue with the same model. It is starting to impact on the reputation of this popular model.

It relates to a failure to start, which can be embarrassing and very inconvenient (particularly in a new vehicle)

Here is a link to the main thread on our site.

Can this be made known to the "Powers that be" so that a more coordinated effort can be undertaken to identify and resolve this issue ASAP.

2017 i30sr starting problem

Regards,

Darryl Bailey

[nzenigma]

Nice and succinct , not emotive. 
It will be interesting to see who and how he/she/they respond.
A diary of the interactions will be valuable.
While this pressure may not be appreciated, Hyundai should realise that we remain on their side.

Thanks Dazz

[lukeee]

Just FYI guys, James after the fight he had with Hyundai and then the damage the motor group added to one of the wheels has decided to part with the Hyundai. Traded it in and bought an Astra which he is quite happy with!

[nzenigma]

Just FYI guys, James after the fight he had with Hyundai and then the damage the motor group added to one of the wheels has decided to part with the Hyundai. Traded it in and bought an Astra which he is quite happy with!

Sorry to hear this, Thanks very much for keeping us in the loop.
 Better luck with the Astra,

[Dazzler]

Thanks for the heads up @lukeee

Disappointing, but understandable.

Here's the reply from Hyundai...

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for your email, we would suggest that anyone experiencing a concern with their vehilce will need to present it to their Hyundai Service Department.

Unfortunately we are unable to assist with providing diagnosis over this medium and would suggest presenting your Hyundai to your nearest Hyundai dealership, we will pass your feedback and concerns through to the relevant departments for review and consideration.

The dealership is equipped with the resources to inspect and diagnose the concerns. A full list of dealerships can be found by visiting the following link Hyundai Motor Company Australia - New & Used Cars Prices, Dealers & Test Drives | Hyundai Australia
Kind regards,
Erin Marshall
Customer Care Specialist – Social Media
Hyundai Motor Company Australia
Customer Care Centre
Phone: 1800 186 306

And my reply to that ...

Hi Erin,

Thanks for your reply. The relevant members have been dealing with their closest dealers, with limited success. This is why I am happy you are passing on our concerns to the relevant departments.

It seems to be happening often enough that a higher authority needs to be made aware so the fault can be adressed and worked on as a priority.

I'm not sure how bad things need to get before Hyundai Korea start throwing resources at fixing an issue?

Thanks again for your time.

Regards,

Darryl Bailey

[nzenigma]

Well that gives you confidence. 

Did he even read , let alone understand your email and linked topic?

If Erin intended to placate these already furious PD owners, he did exactly the opposite.

[Liisa]

Thanks for the heads up @lukeee

Disappointing, but understandable.

Here's the reply from Hyundai...

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for your email, we would suggest that anyone experiencing a concern with their vehilce will need to present it to their Hyundai Service Department.

Unfortunately we are unable to assist with providing diagnosis over this medium and would suggest presenting your Hyundai to your nearest Hyundai dealership, we will pass your feedback and concerns through to the relevant departments for review and consideration.

The dealership is equipped with the resources to inspect and diagnose the concerns. A full list of dealerships can be found by visiting the following link Hyundai Motor Company Australia - New & Used Cars Prices, Dealers & Test Drives | Hyundai Australia
Kind regards,
Erin Marshall
Customer Care Specialist – Social Media
Hyundai Motor Company Australia
Customer Care Centre
Phone: 1800 186 306

And my reply to that ...

Hi Erin,

Thanks for your reply. The relevant members have been dealing with their closest dealers, with limited success. This is why I am happy you are passing on our concerns to the relevant departments.

It seems to be happening often enough that a higher authority needs to be made aware so the fault can be adressed and worked on as a priority.

I'm not sure how bad things need to get before Hyundai Korea start throwing resources at fixing an issue?

Thanks again for your time.

Regards,

Darryl Bailey

It’s funny how they said that however I’ve called Hyundai several times and last I heard was that nothing had been recorded on their system about the videos I sent them or the issues with my car. The guy I last spoke to apparently flagged my complaint and said someone was going to call me in the next couple of days..... it’s been a week now and I still haven’t heard anything. This is beyond ridiculous now.

[Dazzler]

Hi Liisa,

Hopefully someone higher up is now monitoring this thread. I'll try and escalate it further if nothing more comes back from them next week. Keep at them.

[John B]

Maybe they would listen if Current Affair got involved . 

[Dazzler]

Maybe they would listen if Current Affair got involved . 

 

[nzenigma]

Maybe they would listen if Current Affair got involved . 

Some well placed media exposure may jerk them into action, but it needs to be initiated by one or more of the affected owners. Our logging of the issues is just that, it isn't hard evidence. However, it can assist the complainants.

[John B]

Yes I agree, the thing is it has been going on too long with no action from Hyundai. Some publicity that could possibly affect their sales might jolt them into some action. The polite approach to Hyundai does not seem to have worked. As it is we know of one person that has traded his  new i30 in for  a different make. Hopefully one of the affected owners will say enough is enough time to get tough.