[Misskaty]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can give me any advice or suggestions.

I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic and, a few weeks ago, I applied the brakes at a junction and the car didn't stop until I released the brake and pressed it a second time!  There was a noise of metal scraping on metal as if something was spinning and scraping on each revolution (if that makes sense; it's hard to describe).

I had the brakes checked by a local mechanic who said all was in good order so, to be honest, I thought it was a one off and forgot about it.

Then, last week, the same thing happened on my way to work, but this time the brakes didn't work on the second attempt and the car didn't stop when I tried to give way on a narrow road.  Again, it was the same metal scraping noise.  It was pure chance I didn't hit oncoming traffic.  I carried on to work and the brakes were fine the rest of the way, but it happened once again on the way home.

I called the local Hyundai garage and the car was collected by RAC and taken to the dealer, who had it for 5 days and then called me to say there is nothing wrong with the brakes!  They said they could not replicate the problem and all the testing concluded that the brakes are in good order and there is no problem.

How can there be no problem when the brakes have failed to work on 4 occasions?

The somewhat condescending mechanic suggested I  may have been sliding on ice.  I have been driving for more years than I care to mention and I know the difference between sliding on ice and brakes not working!

I would be very grateful if any one could give me some advice, please.

Many thanks
Katy

[Phil №❶]

Welcome to the forum Misskaty,

That is a terrible situation for you and sounds very dangerous.

Firstly, I presume that there are no warning lights on your instruments when this happens.

What does the footbrake actually feel like, is it soft, hard or spongy, at all.

Are there any pulsations in the footbrake.

How long since starting the car does this happen.

The only things I can suggest are possibly a stone or ice / water on the disks.

If it was ice / water I would expect your problem to occur when the wheels are cold at start of journey, there would be no evidence on inspection.

If it was a stone, I would expect to see some possible scoring of the disk or some other evidence.

Until this is resolved, I would suggest applying the brakes at the start of each journey to be sure they are working before proceeding too far.

Hopefully other members can help too. 

[AlanHo]

If you felt a heavy vibration in the brake pedal at the time - it would indicate that the anti-lock system was operating to stop any wheels from locking. It does this by releasing the brake on any wheel that stops rotating and then re-applying the brake again.

I am wondering if there may be a fault in the ABS system which is releasing the brakes and not re-applying them again instantly. Was the road slippery at the time ?

[Doggie 1]

Welcome to the forum Katy. 
I hope you're able to sort that problem out quickly as it is obviously dangerous.
I have no suggestions unfortunately, but others will add to what Alan & Phil have already suggested.

[Dazzler]

Welcome katy,

It is a real worry.. Nothing worse than being told nothing is wrong when clearly there is a problem. 

Maybe you should contact Hyundai UK and insist this gets further investigation. You must be terrified to drive it 

As Phil says is the pedal going to the floor or does it just feel dead??

[Phil №❶]

Thinking more about this problem, it appears that the grinding sound will only be present if the hydraulics are actually working, so we can rule out that side of things, so the main question is what is the grinding and lack of braking response.

[Shambles]

Once again we're hearing of "experts" reporting the result of their cursory examination as "no fault found", when they should listen to the customer who spends far more time with the car than they ever will, and who knows the car better 


I think I'll ask a top Hy Tekky to come in and look at this thread...

[beerman]

Once again we're hearing of "experts" reporting the result of their cursory examination as "no fault found", when they should listen to the customer who spends far more time with the car than they ever will, and who knows the car better 

Whilst I am the first to sink the boot into dealers, 5 days is hardly a cursory examination.

It would be interesting to know the exact circumstances surrounding each occurrence, where the car was parked before and exactly what happened leading up to the fault.

The fact that the braking system has returned to performing without fault after the incident is also interesting.

[Shambles]

Having a car for 5 days doesn't necessarily mean they spent 5 days looking at it. If there's any hint of a possible seizure they'd probably leave it dormant for 3 days and then try driving it a short distance.

That said, "The somewhat condescending mechanic suggested I  may have been sliding on ice." supports my postulation that they did not trust this customer to confer an accurate description of the circumstances in which the issue arose.

[2i30s]

in a real world  i would have thought the dealership would have driven the car too and from [by either service dept manager or mechanic]each morning/afternoon too try and replicate the fault. 

[Phil №❶]

Living in snow and severe cold, has anyone ever had an issue like this with their brakes at all?

[eye30]

I applied the brakes at a junction and the car didn't stop until I released the brake and pressed it a second time! 

Very interesting.....................

I had a similar experience a few months ago.

I was doing a 3 point turn.

Moved the car into the middle of the road, pressed brake and it didn't stop and carried on and I just glided and hit the kerb on otherside.

I put this down to not pressing brake hard enough but thinking back I think I nearly pushed the pedal through the floor.

dry road, sunny, no rain, no ice, no snow...

I'd be interested in any thoughts......

[Phil №❶]

Surely this was worth mentioning, at the time. 

That's pretty scary, what if it was an intersection with a semi coming at you 

[AlanHo]

Not too big a problem if it's only a semi coming at you - so said the actress to the bishop

[Phil №❶]

 

i changed my wording from "bearing down" to "coming at" for this very reason, still didn't work. 

[EssexTech]

MK.
I suspect that the Anti lock braking system was cutting in for some reason IF the brakes are ok as two garages have stated. How many miles has the vehicle done.

[Asterix]

Hi Katy

Welcome to the forum.

Living in snow and severe cold, has anyone ever had an issue like this with their brakes at all?

No 

As Phil mentioned earlier, water or spray on the discs could be the problem, that would explain the brakes working properly the rest of the journey, but then it should happen the first time she brakes, or after a long straight run on wet or moist roads. I don't know if that's the case.. 
...but that still doesn't explain the sound of metal...

[AlanHo]

The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.

[Phil №❶]

The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.

Is that so, I've never experienced ABS in action, thankfully.

Is there any advantage in trying ABS / ESP from a driver experience point of view.

I distinctly remember you mentioning that "all hell broke loose" when you demo'd these capabilities in the new model.

[Misskaty]

Thank you to everybody who has posted a response here and for all the welcome messages; the comments are all really useful and it's good to know that people do believe there is a problem! 
I collected the car from the garage this evening; the mechanic seems to be convinced it is 'the abs kicking in' and not a fault.  I asked about the grinding noise and he said that all cars make that noise when the abs is working.  I said I have never experienced a noise like that before and he repeated that all cars do it.  His explanation for the brakes not working is 'the car will not stop on ice even with abs'.  I said again that I was not on ice and he clearly did not believe me.  I drove the car home - about 20 miles - leaving an extra long stopping distance (!) and have to say the brakes worked perfectly but I am still very nervous that it may happen again.
In answer to the questions raised - the car has done just under 20000 miles.  The brakes don't feel any different when the problem happens; no harder or softer and they don't go to the floor, although I do instinctively push harder when the car doesn't stop.  It is parked overnight on a gravel drive or at work on a hard standing and the problem seems to happen after about 3 miles of driving on semi-rural roads, each time when driving at under 30mph in cold but not wet, snowy or icy weather.
Thank you again for all the helpful comments; I hope there is a solution as I don't want to be afraid to drive my i30!

[Surferdude]

The chatter of the ABS could sound strange if you are not used to it.

Is that so, I've never experienced ABS in action, thankfully.

Is there any advantage in trying ABS / ESP from a driver experience point of view.

I distinctly remember you mentioning that "all hell broke loose" when you demo'd these capabilities in the new model.

Phil, I've always advised my kids to test their car's ABS whenever they get a new one.
Obviously somehwhere safe, no traffic and a wet smooth, level road. Just jump on the brakes hard enough to lock up the wheels. The ABS will kick in and it feels like the pedal is trying to push back up into your foot. And the noise is scary.
I've suggested the same to a few customers over the years as there were cases where the violence of the ABS action scared drivers so much they took their foot off the brake, with disastrous consequences.
One elderly lady came back and thanked me. She agreed, had she experienced it in an emergency she would have panicked.

I had a recent experience that I didn't think relative to this thread but on reflection it might be. I was braking very lightly in a parking manoeuvre and I heard a scraping noise from the front and the brakes appeared to let go. It initially surprised me but it lasted for less than a second and I simply suspected that I'd run over some loose stones or similar and I had a wheel or two lock.

I put the noise down to the stones or whatever scraping on the ground and the odd braking feel down to ABS trying to do its thing and thought nothing more of it. FWIW.

[Phil №❶]

Thanks Surferdude, just what I wanted to know 

[AlanHo]

I had a recent experience that I didn't think relative to this thread but on reflection it might be. I was braking very lightly in a parking manoeuvre and I heard a scraping noise from the front and the brakes appeared to let go. It initially surprised me but it lasted for less than a second and I simply suspected that I'd run over some loose stones or similar and I had a wheel or two lock.

I put the noise down to the stones or whatever scraping on the ground and the odd braking feel down to ABS trying to do its thing and thought nothing more of it. FWIW.

"Forgot where I was"...?  Does it matter where you were?................

"Forgot where I was"...?  Does it matter where you were?................

Probably more appropriate most of the time, for what it's worth.

[Shambles]

I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic ...

I don't suppose there's a button in the cabin near your right knee that disables ESP ("ESP OFF") is there?

I have an 18 month old i30 1.4 classic ...

I don't suppose there's a button in the cabin near your right knee that disables ESP ("ESP OFF") is there?

Are you implying that if you turn off ESP, it will disable ABS?

I don't think there is a way of turning off or disabling ABS.  Or am I not understanding what your getting at Shambles?

[Shambles]

Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.

[Surferdude]

Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.

Don't think you can disable the ABS.

[eye30]

Errmm.. you've got me thinking now. I know it turns off the EBD (brake distribution) but does it disable the ABS? I'll try this next time I get a chance.

Don't think you can disable the ABS.

remove fuse but would be MOT failure in UK?