[Craig]

Hello all,

Well the old girl doesn't get used as much nowadays (once per week 23 miles each way) but had still been pretty much faultless until today.  I'd noticed recently that it seemed a little harder to get into gear.  Noting terrible just the lever felt a bit stiffer.  Then today it seemed like it took a couple of tries to get into reverse, and once on a steep car park exit it seemed to slip out of D.  Then I noticed that it stops showing the D on the dash when in drive after a few seconds, until I pull the lever back a bit.  It still seems to drive and shift fine (the gearbox has never missed a beat until now), but something is definitely amiss.

Can anyone suggest the likely cause?  It's done 85k miles on the original box and fluid so likely the fluid needs changed at least I'm guessing.

Thanks.

[Craig]

This might be a stupid question but can I top off the ATF fluid from under the bonnet?  Or at least measure it?  It's not something I've looked at before and I don't have a manual to hand.

[Craig]

Does my knob look okay to you? This is in drive.

[CraigB]

Does my knob look okay to you?

That question might attract some strange answers

[tw2005]

you're not going to like my thoughts, but you have a problem there. Where does the selector sit in R and can you get it down into manually selected 1 or 2 correctly.

Nearly 140000k on original fluid and 8 years old. Not good

I'm going to suggest the Valve Body is fouled up, likely loaded with mettalic residue assuming nothing has been done to the car and the selector cable and slector shaft is clear of obstruction.

Is the extra resistance as you slide the selector in the car?

[tw2005]

This is a shot of the valve body. at one end you can see a black shaft protruding, second image is the item.

When you move the selector it slides this manual valve in and out of the bore. The valve body is a very fine tolerance item with numerous channels, valves and bores throughout. Any contaminant or build up and things start jamming and wearing out.

I suspect and have read the valve bodies wear in these. I'll hazard a guess that maybe the casting material may be low quality.

really old fluid and lack of use may also have been the final nail in the coffin.

[tw2005]

exploded view

[tw2005]

Oh, as for fluid level, clean around the dipstick area so no dirt or foreign material can get into the filler tube. , pule the dipstick out (orange handle above the trans, wipe with clean cloth, insert , pull out and check where it sits. Ideally this should be done with the transmission at temp. there is a hot and cold mark, should be at hot when hot or at cold when cold

This is done in neutral have engine running. Unlikely it'll need fluid unless you have a leak, as you say it's original then it has not been touched so should be at the same level  when you got the car

[Craig]

I'm in the UK so I don't honestly think the mileage is a huge issue for that fluid.  Outside temp has been over 25C maybe twice in its life.  As you say the lack of use could be a factor and certainly there was no stickiness that I remember when it was in daily use.

I'm away for a couple of weeks but will check the positions in other gears when I get back.  Cheers everyone.

[tw2005]

I'm in the UK so I don't honestly think the mileage is a huge issue for that fluid.  Outside temp has been over 25C maybe twice in its life.  As you say the lack of use could be a factor and certainly there was no stickiness that I remember when it was in daily use.

I'm away for a couple of weeks but will check the positions in other gears when I get back.  Cheers everyone.

I think there's more at play than ambient temp for the lifespan of the fluid including age,contaminants and debris from wear and tear. if you're handy, there's a speed sensor at lower front and rear. I pulled these out on a 41000k box and they were loaded with metallic material as they are inductive pickups with strong magnets inside.

The fluid was chocolate in colour.

The box will produce it's own heat and is also feed through the cooler attached to the radiator so sure if you're in a high temp area it adds additional stress  but I don't think just because this is in a cooler environment the fluid is going to last extended periods.

Short trips, stop start all increase wear and deterioration and debris build up

All fluids degrade with age and where does all the debris and friction material end up? In the fluid.

[Dazzler]

I'm in the UK so I don't honestly think the mileage is a huge issue for that fluid.  Outside temp has been over 25C maybe twice in its life.  As you say the lack of use could be a factor and certainly there was no stickiness that I remember when it was in daily use.

I'm away for a couple of weeks but will check the positions in other gears when I get back.  Cheers everyone.

8 years and 85,000 MILES would be well past the recommended flush time for the transmission I would imagine (whatever the ambient conditions). 

[ABSi30]

Just tried mine the lever should go a little further back agains the stop edge.

[Craig]

I'm back from holidays now and finally got a look at the fluid level.  When I last drove the car it was fine other than the slightly odd lever position.  However, after another couple of weeks of no use at all, she now won't even get into Drive    Park, Reverse and Neutral are fine, but there was enough resistance to getting to D that I wasn't willing to pull back on the lever any harder.

I was going to take her for a spin to get the transmission up to temp before checking the fluid level, but obviously the lack of D made this impossible.  I therefore left her idling in Neutral for 10-15 minutes then tried to check the level.  The tricky bit is, the level looks totally different depending on which side of the dipstick you look at.  I tried it four times and got the same two-sided result each time.  I've attached some potato-quality photos of the dilemma:




I don't know if this means the fluid level is low or high as either is possible (could have been badly topped up during service without my knowledge).  Can someone weigh in and say which side of the stick is to be believed?  Incidentally the fluid didn't smell burned or look particularly dark to me.

Thanks.

[tw2005]

Frustrating isn't it? Drives me nuts too. I reckon if you get a sheet of paper or cardboard behind that dipstick the auto focus should be better rather than locking on the concrete.

No way I can say looking at that. looks like one side looks low, otherside looks too high.

Sometimes i just wipe and insert over and over until it gets consistent usually hot though.

looks blackish to me although focus is not helping.

primary concern though is the fouling.

So even if it's left there and at operating temp it still won't budge into D?

[Craig]

I'll try again with some paper tonight and give it a full 15 minutes then test for D and update.

[eye30]

Is there any writing on the dip stick?

If so, i would presume that you view from the side you can read the word(s).

On my stick there are 2 dimples, low and high marks.
I always read from the side the dimples are raised.......

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

[Craig]

You can just see the dipstick holes in the pic if you know where to look.  The level on one side is below the low hot. The level on the other is above the high hot.

I came out tonight to test again and found that I'd accidentally left her in Neutral from last time (handbrake on). This appears to be a bad thing.  I turned on the ignition and shifted to park, which was a bit stiff. I then turned to crank the motor and all the lights come on but there's no attempt to crank.   

So now the car won't start even though it looks like it should, and because it won't start it's now locked in park 

[Dazzler]

 

Is there a shift unlock button on your model. Most autos have one. It's usually adjacent to the lever. Worth a try if there is one. 

[tw2005]

In park, what is the dash displaying?

[sundiz]

Could there be some sort of misalingment in the shifter? I don't know how the shifter should look, but your seems to be little off. If the shifter is not in the right spot the N or P sensor would not reckonize the right gear and not allow the car to start.

Nevertheless, the transmission fluid shoud have been changed years ago...

[Craig]

It failing to show the selected gear was one of the first signs of trouble.  I'm not convinced of the need to change the fluid though. There's nothing in the manual that mandates more than 'inspection' unless the car is under 'severe usage' conditions.

[tw2005]

It failing to show the selected gear was one of the first signs of trouble.  I'm not convinced of the need to change the fluid though. There's nothing in the manual that mandates more than 'inspection' unless the car is under 'severe usage' conditions.

No point worrying about the fluid now. If you have not tried this yet you may need to disconnect the shift cable at the box and confirm that frees the shifter. if you know it's not the shifter then it's the transmission internals

[Craig]

In park, what is the dash displaying?

No gear selection is shown with the ignition on and sitting in park. I can't remember if that's normal.

[Craig]

Is there a shift unlock button on your model. Most autos have one. It's usually adjacent to the lever. Worth a try if there is one. 

Yep it has one.  I just used it to get the car out of park and back into Neutral and it started fine then.  It was a bit stiff getting it to Neutral.  Warming up now and going to measure the fluid again in a while.  The dash is showing N in neutral.

[tw2005]

In park, what is the dash displaying?

No gear selection is shown with the ignition on and sitting in park. I can't remember if that's normal.

If the display is not showing it then the inhibitor switch is out of position due to this seizing issue. If the ECU does not see P or N then no start just like any auto.

[tw2005]

Is there a shift unlock button on your model. Most autos have one. It's usually adjacent to the lever. Worth a try if there is one. 

Yep it has one.  I just used it to get the car out of park and back into Neutral and it started fine then.  It was a bit stiff getting it to Neutral.  Warming up now and going to measure the fluid again in a while.  The dash is showing N in neutral.

Don't understand why you had to use  the emergency release unless there is pressure on the interlock with it out of position, it's solenoid driven

[nzenigma]

Is there a shift unlock button on your model. Most autos have one. It's usually adjacent to the lever. Worth a try if there is one. 

Yep it has one.  I just used it to get the car out of park and back into Neutral and it started fine then.  It was a bit stiff getting it to Neutral.  Warming up now and going to measure the fluid again in a while.  The dash is showing N in neutral.

Don't understand why you had to use  the emergency release unless there is pressure on the interlock with it out of position, it's solenoid driven

Coming in a bit late here. See no reason to use the unlock button, unless the solenoid is not being activated. That leads me to the ignition lock. The circuit goes there. Some WD40 may work.

[Craig]

Is there a shift unlock button on your model. Most autos have one. It's usually adjacent to the lever. Worth a try if there is one. 

Yep it has one.  I just used it to get the car out of park and back into Neutral and it started fine then.  It was a bit stiff getting it to Neutral.  Warming up now and going to measure the fluid again in a while.  The dash is showing N in neutral.

Don't understand why you had to use  the emergency release unless there is pressure on the interlock with it out of position, it's solenoid driven

Coming in a bit late here. See no reason to use the unlock button, unless the solenoid is not being activated. That leads me to the ignition lock. The circuit goes there. Some WD40 may work.

I couldn't move the shifter at all without using the manual unlock.

WD40 I have.  Where would you suggest I spray it?

[tw2005]

no where, need to identify fault and cause first

[nzenigma]

no where, need to identify fault and cause first

don't be like that Gerard, I like sort of said like I thought I knew about it 

IF the interlock is not releasing, the area to trace is behind the ignition barrel. That is where the solenoid is switched/activated,  some cars use a cable.