[Just Rick]

A good idea in northern Europe where the sun can be seasonally dim, but designers of modern cars have gone berserk with the concept and turned it into a fashion statement.

I agree, and in my opinion most people that retrofit them are not doing so for the added "visibility" but more for the "Look At Me, Look At Me" factor....    

this is so true,so many young yahoo's out there who are fitting 100w bulbs to their fog lamps and running them constantly,going slighlty  here for a story,seen a young fella at work,playing with his fog lamps(GTR Skyline) went to see if he wanted some help,took a look at the globe size(100),told him that was highly illegal,let him continue,as he wasn't going to listen to this old fart anyhow,once he was finished,I said right take my car drive up the road,turn round come back and I'll drive you car with the fog lamps on like he does on a regular basis towards you and just have a look at how they look,did this and we pulled back into works carpark and he happily changed them back to the 35w globes,one young fella point taken lesson learnt

[Doggie 1]

A good idea in northern Europe where the sun can be seasonally dim, but designers of modern cars have gone berserk with the concept and turned it into a fashion statement.

I agree, and in my opinion most people that retrofit them are not doing so for the added "visibility" but more for the "Look At Me, Look At Me" factor....    

this is so true,so many young yahoo's out there who are fitting 100w bulbs to their fog lamps and running them constantly,going slighlty  here for a story,seen a young fella at work,playing with his fog lamps(GTR Skyline) went to see if he wanted some help,took a look at the globe size(100),told him that was highly illegal,let him continue,as he wasn't going to listen to this old fart anyhow,once he was finished,I said right take my car drive up the road,turn round come back and I'll drive you car with the fog lamps on like he does on a regular basis towards you and just have a look at how they look,did this and we pulled back into works carpark and he happily changed them back to the 35w globes,one young fella point taken lesson learnt

A happy ending for both of you. 

[Just Rick]

Geez Rick, don't you get me started on compulsory lights on!

It took us long enough to get the law repealed last time.....

Rusty yes sadly ask ten different PPL you'll get ten different answers,I choose lighs on and support the passing of a regulation,only because I think it is for the safety of the rider,I choose to do it because I value my life, I am highly rider aware,both m/cycle and bicycle, as I have and still do both,but there are so many road users out there who don't give a toss about any other road user and simply do not look before making a manuevour,anyhow again I get  someone beat me badly with the butt of a bang stick

[Phil №❶]

Good post (61) Rick,

I always try to point out the dangers of fiddling with lighting arrangements, the reason being that quite often, people modify their lights and drive the vehicle on the road, turn them on, looks great, happy with the increased range etc, but they're only looking at half of the equation, to an approaching vehicle, the lights can range from uncomfortable to downright dangerous, causing night blindness and possible catastrophic results. Remember, the driver you're blinding is closing in on YOU.

[rustynutz]

Geez Rick, don't you get me started on compulsory lights on!

It took us long enough to get the law repealed last time.....

Rusty yes sadly ask ten different PPL you'll get ten different answers,I choose lighs on and support the passing of a regulation,only because I think it is for the safety of the rider,I choose to do it because I value my life, I am highly rider aware,both m/cycle and bicycle, as I have and still do both,but there are so many road users out there who don't give a toss about any other road user and simply do not look before making a manuevour,anyhow again I get  someone beat me badly with the butt of a bang stick

I believe it should be the riders choice, Rick...

At the time the law was passed there was no proof that it was beneficial which was one reason it was eventually repealed.

I haven't got a problem with those that choose to ride with their light on as in certain conditions it's gonna be an advantage...but, there are also situations where having your light on is gonna be hazardous.
 
Btw, I think you'll find not much has changed as modern motorcycles still don't have a light switch. What has changed though is that it is not illegal to fit a switch if you so choose.

At the end of the day, as you are probably well aware of, regardless of the size of your vehicle and/or having lights on, people will still pull out in front of you because some people just don't look..... 

[Just Rick]

Btw, I think you'll find not much has changed as modern motorcycles still don't have a light switch. What has changed though is that it is not illegal to fit a switch if you so choose.

At the end of the day, as you are probably well aware of, regardless of the size of your vehicle and/or having lights on, people will still pull out in front of you because some people just don't look..... 

Rusty you have me totally confused now, not sure what bikes you have been riding for the last 41 years but everyone I have been fortunate to ride,(other than a trails or motocross bike) have all had light switches of one sort or another. even the old BSA Bantam I had had a light switch on top of the light housing,most others have been within reach of my right thumb.
But as you say it is the riders choice,I choose to support the practice as you choose to not support it,if we were all the smae in our opinions and practices it would be a boring world

[rustynutz]

Seems you haven't been on any modern motorcycles, Rick..... 


In 1992 "hardwired" headlights were mandated for fitment on all new motorcycles in Australia. (ADR19.01)
This meant that headlights came on with the ignition. There was no on/off switch. Fitting one was illegal.

In 1997 this ADR was repealed by the Federal Government after an enquiry into motorcycle safety cited a lack of evidence that this rule benefited motorcyclists.

With Australia being such a small market, not a lot changed after it was repealed as far as the bikes were concerned, motorcycles still have headlights hard wired.
The difference now though is it's not illegal to fit an on/off switch. 
 
There were issues with roadworthy requirements and insurance companies too with drivers using the excuse that they didn't see the motorcycle because the headlight wasn't working...Hard to prove one way or the other if it was smashed....
So, unroadworthy bike=no insurance.... 


Look closely and you'll see there's no headlight on/off switch, only a hi/lo switch....

[baroudeur]

I think it's an illusion that DRLs are brighter than fog lights. A simple test is to compare a. Fogs and headlights however both have significant reflectors to focus the light and have much more potential to blind or dazzle, fogs more so because they are not aimed down like low beam headlights are.

Fog lamps have a wide flat topped beam directed downwards much lower than a dipped beam.

After converting my fogs to DRLs they had to be adjusted upwards to the maximum setting to provide a  suitable forward light but they don't dazzle.  .

[baroudeur]

But, the use of existing fog lights as DRL's will still not be legal as they don't have the all important "ECE R87 Approval Mark".

Gets a bit complex.

ECE r87 is the requirement for new cars to have DRLs.  We are discussing after market 'DRLs'. 

As long as the light is the correct colour there is no restriction on using lights in daytime in the U.K.

A fog lamp used in daylight cannot cause dazzle nor if turned off automatically when  the  headlamps are used  at night .

[Just Rick]

Rusty thanks for that info I don't really look at a lot of bikes these days,only when I'm on the seat,I did talk to Wayne this morning when I went to get the paper,his is the last bike I rode,2005 Ninja,he has in fact done what you said, he had a Baja light control switch fitted to his,so he could turn the H/light off,he confirmed when he first got the bike it was lights on all the time.

I have learnt something again today.

[baroudeur]

Use the existing fog lamps.  Only requires a 5 pin changeover relay to replace the existing fog lamp relay.  Two piggyback fuse holders abnd some wire.

I replaced the bulbs with @blue' types giving a whiter light as the LEDs I tried were not bright enough.

DRLs come on with ignition and go off with lights on and comply with U.K. lighting regulations.

Hi,
Can you give more details for DIY ?

Remove the fog lamp relay.

Connect the 5 pin relay coil to earth and to  the headlamp lo fuse with a  fuse tap.

Connect the normally closed relay  terminals to the  reverse lamp  fuse socket with a fuse tap and the terminal in the fog lamp relay socket that feeds the fog lamps.

With the 'ignition' on the normally closed relay contacts supply the fog lamps via the 'ignition' controlled reverse lamp fuse tap.

When the  headlamps are turned on the relay contacts open cutting the feed to the fog lamps.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/

[rcflyers]

I looked at this problem for quite a while and the only place I was happy with DRL's was in the original fog lamps.  I fitted a pair of these LED bulbs in the fog lamps,

881 7.5W Super White High Power Driving LED Fog Light Lamp Front Foglight Pack Of 2: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

Controlled by this auto relay  (which switched the DRL's on when the engine is started,

Ring Automotive RCT460 12S Smartcon Split Charge/Combination Relay: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

and also a normal 5 pin relay to switch the DRL's off when the headlamps are switched on.

All works great!

[Phil №❶]

In Australia, you can be fined for having fog lights illuminated when fog is not present. For some reason, even the cars with fitted DRL's do not use the fog lights, but rather the many varied and distinctive linear shapes.

Regarding the relays, I used an IGN on power source to light the DRL's, no need to use a relay for that, then I used a relay that when energized by the headlamps, it cut power to the DRL's. So that way, a relay is only physically energized when headlamps are in use, which for us is a very minor amount of time, compared to total driving time.

[eye30]

In Australia, you can be fined for having fog lights illuminated when fog is not present.

You can here but for some reason cars have them on even in bright sunshine and pc plod does nowt.....

[Phil №❶]

Your lot must have plenty of cash, that's a revenue opportunity going to waste 

[rcflyers]

I will let you know if I get stopped by the police.

Another benefit of the auto relay is that when you arrive home at night, turn your headlights off before switching the headlights off and the DRL's remain lit for a minute or so before automatically switching off allowing you illuminated access to your front door!

[Phil №❶]

Ok 

[baroudeur]

Your lot must have plenty of cash, that's a revenue opportunity going to waste 

Only if there is legislation to enforce..........

All DLRs fitted to vehicles which are required to have them are marked DL to show they comply with the very complex requirements of the DLR legislation. However, there does not appear to be any legislation covering the fitment of any lamps which do not have to conform other than they shall not cause dazzle during darkness.  After market DLR type lamps, used during daylight hours and wired appropriately to go off when legal lighting is required seem to fall outside any legislation and there appears to be no reports of any prosecutions for such use..