Author Topic: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?  (Read 18413 times)

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Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« December 26, 2017, 22:33:51 »
Hiyas, it has definitely been some time since I've posted here, guess it's been trouble-free motoring since then.

However I have run into this dreaded automatic gearbox problem which there has been several posts both here and other websites.
Usual slipping from 2nd to 3rd, primarily when cold or has been sitting warm for half an hour or so. A little lazy getting into reverse.
Overdrive engagement/disengagement seems very random.

So I did some research ending mainly with customers forking out for recond boxes, new valve bodies, or unfortunately, no outcome recorded at all.

I have yet to read any codes or book the car for a check (will do), but thought I would ask first if anyone found a cheaper, simpler solution.
Would anyone have old/new part numbers for the valve body?
I also found a company called Sonnax do parts for the gearbox - :link: Sonnax Hyundai/Kia A4CF1, A4CF2 Valve Body Layout
has anyone gone down this route?
Looking at youtube videos of valve body removal I feel confident of doing this myself

Finally, if anyone in Brisbane, Australia has had these troubles and could recommend a repairer with experience to these problems, could you let me know, preferably northside.


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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #1 : December 26, 2017, 23:58:45 »
Bugger! Sorry to hear that.  :welcomeback:

I think @tw2005 mentioned the other day that you can get new throttle body components for around $1000 from somewhere. I've tagged him to get more detail. If you can do the work I guess a $1000 is a lot better than the 3K - 4K quotes some have mentioned.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #2 : December 27, 2017, 02:10:42 »
Can't recommend anyone as I will never trust an automatic transmission place again in my life.

SONNAX, AFAIK are specialists in Valave Bodies in the US and develop workarounds, improvements etc for identified weaknesses in OEM products. Not always DIYand can require specialist tooling and jigs. The VB is a very precise item tolerance wise.

as for the VB part numbers. I believe there are 2, original and updated number and they're the same in the petrol and D4FB motors. Not sure about the 1.6L

4621023020

710.70 USD delivered from Koraps ($916) or Ebay found this :link: Transmission Valve Body 4621023020 46210 23020 for Hyundai i30 i30CW 2007~12 | eBay

Notice how much more Koraps on Ebay wil be thanks to Ebay wanting a cut. $1070

You may want to check the Duty Thresholds. I believe under $1000 may be ok.

I believe the original number was     4621023000 in the earlier models but is a little more expensive

Maybe you could jag a low k write of from the Auctions? And pull the box.

I have a spare but as I have 2 CRDi autos I'm hold onto to that one because I know mine is a little weak in the 2-3 even though the VB has suposedly been replaced.

If you do drop the pan, use the original sealant. I don't like the aftermarket gaskets, they seem to weep.

Maybe gary @nzenigma will have more knowledge / contacts. I've been inside a Mitsubishi Auto trans once, that's about my depth of knowledge. the  Hyundai boxes in the past have been loosely based on some of those designs.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #3 : December 27, 2017, 02:17:37 »
Just out of curiosity, what K's has it done and how often has the fluid been flushed?
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #4 : December 27, 2017, 03:16:33 »
Many thanks for the replies...
She's an 09 model with 65k
Changed the fluid early this year - Feb/Mar
Currently the fluid looks dark but smells ok

I'm not keen on the ebay items despite the numbers looking ok.
Just not sure what you're getting till it's in your hands.
And the descriptions leave a lot to be desired.
If I was confident it was a simple out and in swap, I'd probably take that route.

Plan is to see what Hyundai say and really try to narrow down the issue, specifically.
Get quotes ring around, drop VB and take it in?

Many thanks for the details  :victory:
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #5 : December 27, 2017, 03:22:17 »
Many thanks for the replies...
She's an 09 model with 65k
Changed the fluid early this year - Feb/Mar
Currently the fluid looks dark but smells ok

I'm not keen on the ebay items despite the numbers looking ok.
Just not sure what you're getting till it's in your hands.
And the descriptions leave a lot to be desired.
If I was confident it was a simple out and in swap, I'd probably take that route.

Plan is to see what Hyundai say and really try to narrow down the issue, specifically.
Get quotes ring around, drop VB and take it in?

Many thanks for the details  :victory:
I think once you start talking to them you'll running in the opposite direction very quickly from some of the figures I've seen.

If the fluid looks dark then how was it changed? Drain pan and refill? Only way to do it properly is to flush and takes about 10L

40000k and 12 months later mine  is still cherry pink and smells delicious.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #6 : December 27, 2017, 03:23:59 »
 While I've read a lot about this in the usual regurgitated blogs , I have never had to deal with this problem or met people with hands on experience. .
 I did talk to a supplier in Southport QLD who was bringing in the valve bodies for about $800.
I would be more interested in finding the part that is failing. I was also interested in a U tube shot made by a reasonably lucid American who found and repaired dry solder joints. this was the cure he claimed.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #7 : December 27, 2017, 03:31:41 »
Would be real nice to narrow it down instead of have a full overhaul or replacement ordered.
I've seen the video, but his symptoms were not the same as mine, or others.
Gives a great insight into pulling the VB out though.

Oh and yeah, I just drained and filled, didn't think much of it at the time... low kays and well ahead of service schedule.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #8 : December 27, 2017, 03:45:48 »
While I've read a lot about this in the usual regurgitated blogs , I have never had to deal with this problem or met people with hands on experience. .
 I did talk to a supplier in Southport QLD who was bringing in the valve bodies for about $800.
I would be more interested in finding the part that is failing. I was also interested in a U tube shot made by a reasonably lucid American who found and repaired dry solder joints. this was the cure he claimed.

I suspect poor castings and excessive wear in the bores. I know when I pulled the speed sensors out of that box I had in the taxi the amount of alloy metallic paste stick to those was substantial.

I know I'll be flushing mine out fairly regularly



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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #9 : December 27, 2017, 03:47:21 »
Would be real nice to narrow it down instead of have a full overhaul or replacement ordered.
I've seen the video, but his symptoms were not the same as mine, or others.
Gives a great insight into pulling the VB out though.

Oh and yeah, I just drained and filled, didn't think much of it at the time... low kays and well ahead of service schedule.

Yeah, that would have been a waste of time. About 2-3 litres comes out and it'll look just a dirty. I tried that with 5 Litre drain refil twice. Still looked like crap. $50 wasted.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #10 : December 27, 2017, 03:57:28 »
I am suspecting that the part number you provided tw2005 - 46210 23020, is for the entire assembly???

According to this schematic it encompasses pretty much everything
:link: 46210-23020 - Genuine Hyundai BODY ASSY-ATA VALVE

Best price I could find (legit?) - :link: 4621023020 Hyundai / KIA BODY ASSY-ATA VALVE Price: 522.6$, Weight: 5.76kg - PartSouq - Auto Parts Around the World
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 04:07:35 by Eyethirty » »
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #11 : December 27, 2017, 06:57:19 »
I am suspecting that the part number you provided tw2005 - 46210 23020, is for the entire assembly???

According to this schematic it encompasses pretty much everything
:link: 46210-23020 - Genuine Hyundai BODY ASSY-ATA VALVE

Best price I could find (legit?) - :link: 4621023020 Hyundai / KIA BODY ASSY-ATA VALVE Price: 522.6$, Weight: 5.76kg - PartSouq - Auto Parts Around the World

Can't comment, but have a read of this.

:link: Partsouq.com illegally (hilariously) uses Steven Segal's signature on import/export documents, and other shady practices : Autos

I'd stick to Koraps if going offshore.

And yes it's for a valve body, that's what the whole assembly is.

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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #12 : December 27, 2017, 16:07:10 »
Over the last few years I have been working on numerous i30s, most have been FD, and the Km's ranged from 20k to 200k. Not one auto fault :whistler: so far.

Just attempting to apply a bit of logic here, but failing  :wacko:

A car that has done 65,000 km (= 40,000 miles) is still a new car !!
The fault is recognised, but given the amount of i30s on the road it is not a common fault.
 tw may be correct about bad casting, but the bodies are cast en masse, if that was the case I think we would see clusters of cars failing at about the same interval.
"Usual slipping from 2nd to 3rd, primarily when cold..  A little lazy getting into reverse." That sounds like a single component. I would suggest that something like a valve spring has failed...note suggest  :confused:..

 Not sure about "Overdrive engagement/disengagement seems very random." Do you mean the fault occurs occasionally or that it is always there and overdrive only works sometimes?.
If so , still think it is one small component.

Eyethirty, You need to TALK to some transmission specialists ( that excludes Hy dealers) and hope someone has had enough interest to find the problem , not take the easy route and just change the whole body.
Then, if they reveal  their findings, you need to source the component.



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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #13 : December 27, 2017, 18:19:33 »
Interestingly, I seem to think nearly all the transmission failings have been 2010/11 models and a disproportionate amount of them the CW (wagon) variant. I could be wrong but that seems to be the case from the reports we've had on here.  :cool:

Edit: So yours is an '09 model... interesting. I still feel most with the throttle body issue have been 2010/11.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #14 : December 27, 2017, 18:36:10 »
Have you spoken to Hyundai? 65k is fairly low ks for a transmission failure. The ACCC may have the opinon that you should expect more km from a transmission.

I discovered droping the pan and replacing the fluid is how Hyundai services automatics apparantly....Another reason I dont use them.

My wife's 2011 hatch had the valve body failure almost from new.....
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #15 : December 27, 2017, 19:27:52 »
The overdrive behaviour can be quite random.
Primarily it engages very early (around 50kph) and very sluggishly.
I normally drive around in 3rd and knock it over when speeds exceed 75-80kph.
It will either engage smoothly (mostly when it's warm) or nothing will happen for a second, then slowly engage.
Othertimes I'll get a small rise in rpm during that pause, then revert back to normal as it engages.

If I drive around in OD the box can't make up it's mind whether it wants OD or 3rd.
And when coming to a stop while in OD it's like the box wants to hold that gear till around 10kph then you can feel it let go (disengage)
It feels alot like popping into neutral.

The closest I've come to finding an exact failure is in the description for this part: :link: Valve Body Repair A4CF1 A4CF2
Whether it's to be believed or not, dunno... but it's the only part description that mentions the 2nd to 3rd AND 3rd to 4th slip, and of course reverse complaints.

It suggests replacing the TCC Control Valve and Pressure Reducing Valve... one is a simple swap, the other requires machining :(

I probably won't do anything till after the new year. Surely a transmission specialist has come across this problem, here's hoping a simple vacuum test will shine some light.

Dazzler, I would have thought by 2010/11 the new VB would have been implimented?
beerman, what was your solution? The ACCC could be an option.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #16 : December 27, 2017, 20:56:50 »
The 2010/11 thing made me suspect a bad batch or different supplier.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #17 : December 27, 2017, 22:02:00 »

The closest I've come to finding an exact failure is in the description for this part: :link: Valve Body Repair A4CF1 A4CF2
Whether it's to be believed or not, dunno... but it's the only part description that mentions the 2nd to 3rd AND 3rd to 4th slip, and of course reverse complaints.
.

Looks like my theory and Gerard's both have currency. Possibly maybe.  :head_knock:
Maktrans is in Poland. Seems legitimate. Mate and I buy parts from the old East bloc and have no problem.
If you start machining then as you realise $$$$ and a whole body may be the way to go.

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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #18 : December 27, 2019, 16:05:02 »
Hi again...
Thanks Dazzler for reopening the thread for a small update. I know some of you have been reading and I'm sorry it was one of those dead-end topics on an issue I believe several people have had.

After procrastinating, changing the steering bush and a proper  transmission fluid flush I was able to purchase a new valve body. Not a single trans guy called me back, nor did the bloke who flushed it have any recollection of any problems with previous vehicles. He did offer to "pull it apart and take a look" but that's a inconvenience and an unknown dollar sign I really didn't need.
Hyundai Australia quoted me $2400 just for the part and assurred me it was the correct part number. They also stated there was an * next to the part number which apparently meant at some stage the valve body was a field replacement item, aka warranty item. I am far from any warranty, despite having under 100,000kms and I was not willing to part with $2400, nor eBay's now $1200.

So in Oct 2019 I went shopping... in Korea. And, no I didn't travel to Korea just to buy the VB, however given the flight prices, you could, and still be out front of anything locally here in Australia. The prices have gone up dramatically since 6-12 months ago, however still good buying. I also grabbed the electrical connectors, a rear left lock actuator and door delta. Highlight of the trip was Seoraksan NP via Hongcheon in a TAU powered Genesis... story another time.

As was linked in previous replies, the VB is around 6kg. I never figured the shipping and just walked into Brisbane with it in my carry on, raising a few eyebrows, but no duty or GST. I think he got tired of my excited story.

So that's where I am at... exactly 2 years later, with the same symptoms eventually persisting post flushing. I plan to swap VBs and electrical connectors. Man time has flown and I've barely put 20,000kms on the car. Just need to sort out everything I'm gonna need.
It was mentioned earlier about using Hyundai sealant instead of an aftermarket gasket. Does anyone else have any tips for me? I not exactly sure when I'll be starting this.
I'll attempt to take some pictures, but it won't be much different from the youtube videos etc.

Thanks
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #19 : December 27, 2019, 16:40:32 »
Thanks for the update mate. I await pics.  :mrgreen:

The prices have gone pear shaped. One problem is Morrison's gone South miracle OZ $. Other is horrendous US freight rates ( fedex etc) have put Korea and US  companies off my shopping list
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #20 : December 27, 2019, 17:00:26 »
What a great idea - carry on parts !  :goodjob:
Need some bike parts , I'll put this idea to my oldest & SIL for when they go O/S in March. Cylinder head for one, shaft drive diff assembly for the other  :happydance:
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #21 : December 27, 2019, 17:34:43 »
I only mentioned using FIPG as per it's done in the factory as sealant used and threebond 1281 is one I can recommend cures fast and works .  You're going to be replacing the internal filter so I think RIPCO sells an aftermarket  filter/gasket kit. If there's a sealant product that can be applied to the gasket I'd use it.

I've had those paper gaskets used on my pan and also used on a Mits pan(vertical) and both weeped. It took me 2 attempts unfortunately, rather awkward trying to hold the pan and get the bolts in without messing up the liquid sealant. Up on a hoist it would be easier.

I think 2nd time I had to use Permatex red as I purchased OEM sealant from a local trusting it was ok. Stock date was 2012 and it was not stored in a cool place. left me with my pan's down. I had just enough high temp permatex red to get it done, but it requires hours to cure before you refill, I left it overnight

Someone here only a couple of weeks ago used a Auto trans place at Underwood for a rebuilt VB with success.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #22 : December 27, 2019, 17:40:58 »
Quote
Suprising it would be that out of wack I always thought it would be more to do with wear within the  box.

Did you want to share the whole experience like where you ended up getting the parts, how you resealed the pan, any issues after wards with leaks,  etc

certainly if you have the factory tool you can rest adaptives easier, surprised it took a week. I remember I had to do an emergency box swap on our old magna 4 speed. It had huge amounts of shift flare but I sorted that out in one night. It was more prevalent at high speed shifts.

It was quite interesting because I would freplicate the shift condions over and over and it would virtually half the flare each time , then I 'd do shifts it all gears and vary the throttle loads and shift speeds.

In the end i finished with a box smoother and no issues that was used  in better  condition than the piece of rubbish Fluidrive in Vic produced and lasting  a mere 60000K.

Good to hear you've had a win, what was the final outlay in comparison to the dealership?

I ended up getting the reconditioned valve body from a Transmission specialist in QLD called Automatic Wreck Trans for $750. I did check around for the price and the cheapest one I found was $990 on ebay (bqauto from my memory) but it takes 2 weeks as the part is overseas.
Penrite ATF and filter were from Repco. Gasket was Permatex Red.

I followed the instruction on Youtube. Just search A4CF1/2 valve body and there’re lots of videos about it including rebuilding, changing solenoid, checking resistant, v.v. It was a bit painful to put back the valve body. I had to use the scissor jack with some carton pads to lift it up slowly. The job took me around 2 hours as I loosened and tightened all the bolts by hands. Could be faster if you have an impact drill though.

The reason why I spent a week on the adaptive values cause I mainly do bumper to bumper driving therefore the throttle position is hard to meet the requirement (25-35%). The cheap OBDII from ebay is really helpful here 😁

I still can see some of tiny black pieces when I check the fluid. Should I change the ATF one more time to clean out the transmission?


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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #23 : December 28, 2019, 04:00:37 »
Thanks for the responses and the links.
Sounds like quankino sorted out their troubles.
I may even give his mob a call after I do the swap and see what can be done with the old one.

I rang alot of transmission places on the northside of Brisbane and with no reply and my guy being unsure, I was determined to just buy new.
I travel to Korea every now and then and have bought back all kinds of parts and accessories, friends have Kia and Hyundai.
The first time I even looked at Korean prices for the VB, they were $260AUD... about 12 months ago.

Time and convenience were my issue... people needed to use the car and we hadn't plan to travel till Oct.

As for taking parts on aircraft, I've never had a problem. At one point I've had a duffle bag full of Mobis parts. Korean Air is a fantastic airline.
As for the VB, I think it just raised suspicion for its value... a story he wasn't expecting at 6am.
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #24 : January 31, 2020, 21:02:36 »
In relation to gear box part numbers, i would like to know 2 things.

the difference between A4CF1 and A4CF2?

where do i find the code on the gear box itself?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 21:26:20 by blastslayer » »
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #25 : January 31, 2020, 23:06:39 »
In relation to gear box part numbers, i would like to know 2 things.

the difference between A4CF1 and A4CF2?

where do i find the code on the gear box itself?

1st: A4CF1 and A4CF2 are identical.
2nd: I don't really get the question hre. Do you mean the error code from the transmission?
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #26 : February 01, 2020, 04:45:01 »
In relation to gear box part numbers, i would like to know 2 things.

the difference between A4CF1 and A4CF2?

where do i find the code on the gear box itself?
The difference is all internal and to do with the torque rating of the transmission.  A4CF1 were fitted to the 1.6L Gamma and smaller, the A4CF2 was fitted to the 2.0 Petrol and D4FB diesel. The valve bodies were the same
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #27 : February 01, 2020, 05:01:12 »
Then I found this, so not too sure . may depend on the region too?

Torque limit of the CF1 was 152Nm, CF2 was about 235Nm



The four-speed automatic transmission A4CF1- is a joint development of specialists from Mitsubishi and Hyundai. It was first introduced in 2005 and was intended for small-displacement front-wheel drive cars with engines up to 2 liters. This modification of automatic transmission was installed in Hyundai Accent, Elantra, Getz, Kia Cerato, Spectra, Soul and other small-displacement models. A4CF2 is a modified and reinforced version of the A4CF1,

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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #28 : February 01, 2020, 06:08:32 »
Thanks for the info, according to sources i can source a VB from several cars  (VB$36 from u pullit)?  Of the 2 versions, A4CF1 and 2, would the entire trans be reinforced, leaving the same VB or would A4CF2 have a new reinforced VB also

cars i can rip into below

Edit: would also like to know if there's a way to determine if it's a wiring harness problem (dry solder etc) or hydraulic/solenoid


« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 10:02:27 by blastslayer » »
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Re: Solution to A4CF2 Automatic Gearbox Problems?
« Reply #29 : February 01, 2020, 15:22:51 »
Some good info there guys. I've decided to "sticky" this topic.  :goodjob:
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