[Fireescape]

Hello
About 2 weeks before the end of my 6 speed manual diesel i30's warranty period I notice that changing gears became difficult. It was always a very smooth and light action but, overnight, it became stiff and hard to engage each gear, including reverse. I checked the clutch master cylinder fluid levels, which were fine, and couldn't see any leaks around the master or slaves cylinders, so decided to get my local Hyundai dealer to have a look . They agreed that it was stiffer than normal to change gears, but like me, couldn't see any external issue. They told me that more likely than not that the clutch was worn and would need replacing, which would cost around the $1300 mark and would take 2 days. As the car was still able to be driven I decided to leave it for a bit until I had time to get the work done. I wasn't convinced that the issue was a worn clutch, having driven cars with worn clutches before, the clutch normally start to slip when it's worn out, rather than become difficult to change gears. I was also thinking that a worn clutch would be a gradual thing, slowly becoming worse, rather than an thing that changes overnight.

Over the following week the gear change issue got worse until it became almost impossible to change gears in the car. I took it back to the Hyundai dealer, who, to their credit, got me straight in and asked them to fully investigate what was happening. The next morning the service manager rang me and explained that the clutch wasn't worn, or at least not to any great degree, but one of the springs on the clutch disk had broken and fallen out of the clutch, which was why I wasn't able to change gears. He said that it probably was the original clutch installed at the factory (had Hyundai and Kia markings on it) but because it was a clutch issue it would not be covered by warranty, and it would be $1644 installed  for an aftermarket clutch, or around $1850 for a genuine one. I agreed to have it fixed and the work was scheduled in to be done. 

After I got off the phone I got to thinking about Hyundai's warranty, and whether this failure should be covered by it. I got my service handbook out and read right through it. There are numerous sections that relate to mechanical failures and material failures being covered but the only section I could find that relates to the clutch itself, section 14 of the warranty exclusions section, which explains what isn't covered by the 5 year warranty -

The replacement of consumable components normally replaced
or repaired in the process of routine maintenance servicing, which
include but are not limited to: lubricants, fluids, coolant inhibitor/
anti freeze, refrigerant, filters and filter elements, drive belts, spark
plugs, fuses, spark plug leads, gaskets and oil seals, shim/packing,
batteries, clutch and brake friction linings, brake disc rotors -
including machining, exhaust systems, light bulbs, wiper blades
and arms, all hoses and attaching devices.

So I'm thinking that the clutch didn't wear out (worn friction lining) and was considered by the service manager to be in good condition. It failed due to a material or manufacturing fault, a spring breaking away from the clutch, so it should be covered by the warranty. I ring the service manager back and express my concerns and thoughts on the repair, and he agrees, but.... tells me that his hands are tied, Hyundai have a 20,000km warranty on the clutch (my car has over 200,000km on it), even though I can find no reference to this 20,000km clutch warranty anywhere. The service manager suggests that I ring the Hyundai help line and speak to them about it, which I do, speaking to Bella, and explaining my thoughts on the situation. She, again, agrees with what I'm saying, it sounds like a mechanical failure. She tells me she'll ring the dealer and have a talk to them about the situation. At this point that's all I know (I like to finish my posts without any clear resolution, to keep people interested ), I haven't heard back from the dealer or Hyundai.

So the question is, what do you think? Do I have a right to pursue a warranty claim or should I just pay up to have the clutch repaired/replaced (if that is the decision that Hyundai come to).

[Hati]

I would ring Hyundai HQ and tell them that according to their own exclusion list, the clutch spring plate is not listed specifically, only the friction disc, so it should be covered. The 20k "warranty" is bullshit me thinks, if it is not in YOUR user manual, it cannot be expected of you to know about it. The service manager may also say that the Earth is flat. Holds the same amount of truth

Worst case they should cover a part of it as a minimum.

[Dazzler]

What Hati says. Plus, if Hyundai won't come to the party I'd be getting it done by an independent garage that has a good reputation.  I'm sure it can be done for a lot less, maybe even under $1000.

[Fireescape]

I did get some quotes before I took it to Mitsubishi, $1250 and "around $1100". The reason I eventually took it to Hyundai was because I was dubious that the issue was a worn clutch, thinking that it might have been something wrong with the gearbox itself, which might have cost many thousands to remedy outside of the Hyundai warranty. The problem is that with clutches you kinda have to commit to getting it done, just to have a look, because the whole gearbox needs to come out to inspect the fault. You can't exactly say to Hyundai "pull the gearbox out, and the clutch out, and if it's worn out put it back together and I'll take it around the corner", they'd probably charge you a thousand dollars just to have a look.

[Dazzler]

Fair call.. I kind of forgot they have been in for a look! 

Hopefully Hyundai will come to the party (atleast to some extent) 

[h20melon]

I had the same argument with HY when my car had the vibration issue. I pointed out the same wording in my book, but both the dealer and HY kept referring to the whole clutch plate isn't covered by the 5 year warranty.  My friction linings were in almost immaculate condition. Even the stamps were still visible on both sides.

I even contemplated them just putting it back together but the dealer in Albion Park Rail were charging $130 per hour so it was going to cost around $1000 just in labour so had them replace the clutch anyway and try to fight with HY.

I sent them letters and emails and went to the Department of Fair Trading, but HY still didn't budge.

As the items weren't replaced under warranty, I requested all items including oil to be kept and given to me, which they did except the gearbox oil (which I argued they had no right to dispose of it as it was still legally mine), so I have a full clutch assembly that I can put back in if needed.

[mickd]

Hi Fire,
No offense but you should have thrown this up here as soon as you started having trouble.
As it states " linings", not springs. 
Usually you can burn out a clutch and the pressure plate is still good.
Chase hard and call twice a day,  pester the crap out of the help line. Usually calls to these services "are recorded for training purposes ", actually is a record of what is said. If the person cannot help you, say "for the purposes of the tape , put me through to your manager ". It may take  couple of goes but be persistent.
20k km on a clutch as claimed by dealer is now on the i30 forum and that might be worth mentioning to Hy Australia.
Those with manuals on this forum should start calling Hy in their country  re: this claim and get confirmation or denial,  in writing if possible.

Keep us posted.   

[Fireescape]

I had the same argument with HY when my car had the vibration issue. I pointed out the same wording in my book, but both the dealer and HY kept referring to the whole clutch plate isn't covered by the 5 year warranty.  My friction linings were in almost immaculate condition. Even the stamps were still visible on both sides.

Was there anything obviously wrong with your clutch when they pulled it out, I've heard of this vibration issue before, my car used to grone below 1500rpm when it was working,, probably from the clutch. I wonder if my issue might be dealt with differently because there's an obvious failure of a component, saying that a damping spring on a clutch disk is somehow related to a friction lining is a massive leap, one which Hyundai appear to be happy to make unfortunately, and more likely than not,  unjustly.

[eye30]

I took it back to the Hyundai dealer, who, to their credit, got me straight in and asked them to fully investigate what was happening. The next morning the service manager rang me and explained that the clutch wasn't worn, or at least not to any great degree, but one of the springs on the clutch disk had broken and fallen out of the clutch, which was why I wasn't able to change gears.

Ok
So from what you say they have removed and examined the clutch plate and associated components.

Found spring broke so i would say mechanical/part fault and, therefore, covered.

Not friction plate or any other consumable.

As reported and examined initially before warranty had expired then hy warranty claim..

[Dazzler]

I took it back to the Hyundai dealer, who, to their credit, got me straight in and asked them to fully investigate what was happening. The next morning the service manager rang me and explained that the clutch wasn't worn, or at least not to any great degree, but one of the springs on the clutch disk had broken and fallen out of the clutch, which was why I wasn't able to change gears.

Ok
So from what you say they have removed and examined the clutch plate and associated components.

Found spring broke so i would say mechanical/part fault and, therefore, covered.

Not friction plate or any other consumable.

As reported and examined initially before warranty had expired then hy warranty claim..

Exactly,

except @h20melon didn't have any joy!

Hyundai seem better than most other makes for honouring claims outside the strict guidelines of the warranty but I think it sometimes depends on how hard the dealer goes in to bat for you. 

[h20melon]

@Fireescape There was nothing visibly wrong with the clutch plate, pressure plate or the bearing.  I have all three parts.  I uploaded 2 videos to YouTube showing the parts.  Hyundai i30 CRDi Friction Plate - YouTube and Hyundai i30cw CRDi Pressure Plate - YouTube

This was the 2nd clutch put into my car after purchasing it, both for the same vibration reason. The first was claimed to have oil leaking from gearbox seal onto clutch causing the vibration. The second is still unknown. I'm guessing that as the dealer couldn't find any visible problem, they blamed the friction plate. 

From all my talking to HY and the dealer, although the friction plate wasn't under warranty and the pressure plate and bearing was, I couldn't just change the friction plate (and if the problem still exists then it's not the plate, but if the vibration disappears then it is the plate), but they (HY) said that according to the dealer the problem is the friction plate thus I need to replace the whole assembly otherwise any damage caused later will not be covered by warranty as the problem originated from an item not in warranty.  If that all makes sense.

[Fireescape]

It's interesting h20melon, you would think that once the first clutch was replaced, and the issue was still evident, that Hyundai would have to admit that there was a material fault, or a part wasn't fit for service. Having dealt with Hyundai recently in regards to a warranty claim, for a problem with the electronic steering module in my car which caused the car to meander all over the road, it does seem very hit or miss whether you'll be successful with your claim. I had to make multiple trips down to the dealer to get anything done, if I'd just accepted the first assessment I'd still be struggling to control the car now.

I'll certainly have some questions if my clutch isn't found to be covered under the warranty, as far as I'm concerned it's fairly black and white, a component of the drivetrain failed due to a material or workmanship issue, which is expressly covered by the warranty, as written in the warranty booklet supplied with the car. The fact that the spring is contained on a component that also has a friction surface on it is irrelevant in my opinion, only hope that Hyundai feel the same, guess we'll find out tomorrow.   

[Dazzler]

Fingers crossed mate. Be firm but tactful.  You've been unlucky to have two major issues in what is inherently a very reliable car... 

[Fireescape]

Quick update
Nothing good to report unfortunately, spoke to the service manager this morning, Hyundai's customer care woman didn't even bother to ring him last Friday. He suggested that I ring her back, which I did. She was very unhelpful this morning, pretty much insisted that the clutch was out of warranty, stating that this alleged 20,000km warranty applied and that was that. I asked her where this was written down and she replied that it was in the warranty passport, which I replied wasn't true. She put me on hold, then stated that she
would write something down and email it to me. I kinda laughed at this, inquiring whether she often made up warranty policy on the spot, which didn't go down to well. Anyway I wasn't making any headway with Hyundai so I've had to get Fair Trading involved, and will have to pay for my clutch repair, with the hope that I'll be able to get my money back at a later point.

So pretty disappointing with Hyundai at the moment. The service manager has been great but his hands are pretty much tied by Hyundai Australia, who have been very difficult to deal with. The clutch failure was not wear related, but was a mechanical failure (or a material one), something that Hyundai themselves state us covered by their 5 year warranty. I guess Hyundai believe that they can just make the rules up as they go, or at very least hide the rules in a filing cabinet somewhere at their head office, to be produced as needed, wonder if Fair Trading will think this is acceptable. 

[Surferdude]

I'm glad you've got Fair Trading involved.
This needs to be resolved.

[Dazzler]

I'm glad you've got Fair Trading involved.
This needs to be resolved.

 

Yours isn't the first with the clutch plate spring failure. Not common, but has been mentioned on here before. You are definitely within your rights to be angry/disappointed and take it further. 

[Paolo5]

Hyundai makes such a great car...it is disheartening to hear that Hyundai Australia is the weak link here.

[mickd]

Hyundai makes such a great car...it is disheartening to hear that Hyundai Australia is the weak link here.

Maybe an email to the parent company 

[h20melon]

Definitely keep us informed.

I should have mentioned in my post that after the first replacement clutch, the car was fine with no vibration for about 35,000 kms then the vibration came back. I explained about the problem to the dealer but they found no visible problem like the oil they claim had leaked with the first one.  Whether they were making up stories or not, i cannot be sure as HY seems to "trust" the mechanics and dealers.

Good luck.

[eye30]

Email/write  signed delivered letter to the MD stating the above and that you wish to claim in accordance with the warranty as per the paperwork provided with the car.

[Fireescape]

Another little update
So my car was ready to go today, picked it up and paid my money. Had another talk to the service manager, who wrote out that the fault was a broken spring on the clutch cisk (apparently one of the four springs actually snapped in half, which damaged the disk to the degree that cracking was evident). Unfortunately the service department binned my original disk and the spring, which wasn't ideal. The clutch installed is an Exedy, which seems to have a lighter pedal feel, engages a lot higher (the original clutch engaged when the pedal was about 10mm off the carpet, the Exedy is more like 50mm) than the original one. It also doesn't grone at lower engine speeds in higher gears (say 1500rpm in 3rd accelerating to 2500rpm), which is nice.

As far as my warranty claim goes that's in the hands of Fair Trading, probably be a few weeks before I hear anything, be nice to have my money refunded, but we'll see how I go. More updates to follow.

[Dazzler]

Another little update
So my car was ready to go today, picked it up and paid my money. Had another talk to the service manager, who wrote out that the fault was a broken spring on the clutch cisk (apparently one of the four springs actually snapped in half, which damaged the disk to the degree that cracking was evident). Unfortunately the service department binned my original disk and the spring, which wasn't ideal. The clutch installed is an Exedy, which seems to have a lighter pedal feel, engages a lot higher (the original clutch engaged when the pedal was about 10mm off the carpet, the Exedy is more like 50mm) than the original one. It also doesn't grone at lower engine speeds in higher gears (say 1500rpm in 3rd accelerating to 2500rpm), which is nice.

As far as my warranty claim goes that's in the hands of Fair Trading, probably be a few weeks before I hear anything, be nice to have my money refunded, but we'll see how I go. More updates to follow.

Cheers for the feedback. It definitely reads like a component fail, not wear and tear. Lets hope common sense prevails and fair trading isn't a toothless tiger... 

[Paolo5]

 

Lets hope common sense prevails and fair trading isn't a toothless tiger... 

In my experience Fair Trading is very gummy indeed..

They don't seem to have the authority to make judgement calls.

If anything, Fair Trading might suggest that Hy and Fireescape go halves in the bill. Gees I hope that I am wrong...

[eye30]

I feel that success will depend on the relationship the dealer has with hy hq.

If the dealer has say in the past sailed close to the wind with warranty claims then hy hq may be reluctant to cover.

But if they are good dealers then fingers crossed they will see that the fault is not clutch friction material related and honour the warranty.

Ps
Did you contact the MD direct as when i had a claim refused i did and it was honoured.

[Fireescape]

Ps
Did you contact the MD direct as when i had a claim refused i did and it was honoured.

The warranty was originally denied by the dealer, even though they agreed with my suggestion that it was a part failure rather than a worn component. They stated that their hands were tied and I should make contact with Hyundai Australia directly, via their customer help line and take it up with them, which I did, this was on Friday last week. The customer service officer (cso)  originally agreed with my assessment that it was a parts failure and told me that she would contact the dealer and ring me back. I didn't hear from her again on Friday so rang the dealer on Monday to find out what was happening. He asked if I had spoken to Hyundai Australia, and I asked him if the cso had rang him to be told that she hadn't. So I ring the cso again and now her whole attitude had changed, with her talking about this 20k clutch warranty, and telling me she'd write down the policy on a piece of paper (she couldn't find it documented anywhere when she had put me on hold to look through the warranty passport), which I replied wasn't good enough, she can't just generate official policy on the run and that she could write anything she wanted to down in regards to denying warranty claims. I told her she could send me this "policy" and I would contact Fair Trading NSW and make a formal complaint about Hyundai Australia's  behaviour in this regard. I then rang the dealer back and asked them to go ahead with the repair, as I needed my car back on the road, and started procedures with Fair Trading.

[eye30]

Ok i got all that from your previous posts so i would have contacted the MD direct and let them know what hadps been said, especially re 20k clutch.

Now i would be contacting the MD at hyhq to inform them of you requesting fair trade to be involved and awaiting their investigation as you are being told an exclusion that is not in the warranty t&c's and require clarification.

Be interesting how quickly hy hq reply

[John B]

I dont know if this is possible but just a thought. Is it possible that an official letter could be sent to HY HQ from the i30 Owners club requesting confirmation on why one of our members that has a mechanical failure on his clutch can not obtain warranty. Many world wide members of our i30 Owners Club have a vested interest in the outcome. ( or words to this effect )

[Dazzler]

I dont know if this is possible but just a thought. Is it possible that an official letter could be sent to HY HQ from the i30 Owners club requesting confirmation on why one of our members that has a mechanical failure on his clutch can not obtain warranty. Many world wide members of our i30 Owners Club have a vested interest in the outcome. ( or words to this effect )

Nice idea john, but it could set a bit of a precedent. Where do we draw the line, we probably have a disputed warranty claim every few weeks on here and we only usually hear the owner's side of the story. We don't normally see things like documentary evidence of service history, etc..

Not suggesting that Fireescape or anyone else isn't legit though..

@Shambles What's your take mate?

[Surferdude]

I think there's some merit in this.
Perhaps if we approach HA, they could designate a "go to" contact for us.

Obviously individual cases could not be discussed but in this instance for example, I don't see why we couldn't ask for clarification of the clutch warrant issue.

ie. Specifically is there a 20,000 limit on ALL clutch components (like a pressure plate spring).

[Fireescape]

Obviously I believe the clutch should've been covered by Hyundai's 5 year warranty, it was an obvious material failure, which is expressly covered by the warranty in Hyundai's own literature provided with the car. The biggest issue I have with the whole situation though is the fact that Hyundai seem to be happy to just make stuff up, in relation to the warranty, as they go along. I'd imagine a situation where this fault takes out the gearbox, a spring floating around inside the bell housing could get jammed anywhere. So you have the possibility that many thousands of dollars damage could be done to your car, all of which you'll have to wear, if your Hyundai has more than 20,000km on it. These kind of policies need to be told to potential customers, not generated in thought bubbles in customer service staff brains. I'm sure if there was a policy written down stating that if anything at all happens to the clutch, in any way, including obvious part failures, after 20,000km, then you'll have to pay for the whole repair yourself people might have second thoughts about purchasing the car...maybe.

Just to answer the question about the cars service history,  it has a  full service history, with every service in the past 5 years being carried out on time. Funny thing is this  was never checked  by Hyundai, as far as I know, including when I had the whole electronic steering assembly replaced under warranty  6 or so months ago.