[AlanHo]

Latest newsletter from Honest John

Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond has said that the Government is exploring a new ‘tax treatment’ for diesel cars.

The statement is the strongest indication yet that the Government will introduce a new diesel tax, with changes likely to be announced at the Autumn Budget on 5 December 2017.

Fuel duty on petrol and diesel has been frozen for seven years - at 57.9p-per-litre – but the Government’s stance on a new ‘tax treatment’ has sparked fears that diesels will face a new tax before the end of the year.

“The Chancellor has fired a warning shot to diesel drivers,” said RAC chief engineer David Bizley. “This uncertainty is bound to be of concern to private and business motorists alike, who will be wanting urgent clarity on just what the Government plan to do.”

It’s unclear what the ‘tax treatment’ would represent, but a new diesel scrappage scheme and/or an increase in diesel fuel duty are two ideas that have been speculated.

Diesel car buyers are already facing higher VED, with the new road tax system set to add hundreds of pounds to the running costs of Britain’s most-popular diesels. However, with diesel emissions linked to 9500 annual deaths in London each year, the Government is facing increasing calls to do more to improve air quality in Britain's cities and encourage drivers to buy cleaner vehicles.

At this stage, it’s unclear what the ‘tax treatment’ would represent, but a new diesel scrappage scheme and/or an increase in diesel fuel duty are two ideas that have been speculated in recent weeks.

The UK’s automotive industry body, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), has warned against the anti-diesel agenda because of the negative implications that it could have on reducing CO2 emissions, but healthcare professionals argue that the move away from diesel is the only answer.

Mike Hawes, SMMT Chief Executive, said: “The automotive industry has some of the most challenging CO2 reduction targets...for this positive trend to continue, modern low emission diesels and AFVs such as plug-ins, hydrogen and hybrids must be encouraged with long term incentives.”

Dr Penny Woods of the British Lung Foundation said: “It’s a tragedy that on the 60th anniversary of the Clean Air Act, we continue see pollution limits broken in many parts of the capital, urgent action is needed to clean up London’s air.

“Air pollution contributes to 9500 early deaths in London every year. It worsens existing lung conditions, increases the risk of getting lung cancer and impairs child lung development.”

FOOTNOTE
Did you notice that the focus once more is on London. They don't give a shit about us people in Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle etc

[Lakes]

9,000 lot of deaths!!  How many people die from road accidents in 2016 in GB?
Live longer, move to Tassie!

[eye30]

2015 = 1732 deaths

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain

[AlanHo]

You Aussies cannot be complacent about this issue - it will effect you even though you are not yet being poisoned by diesel fumes.

The savagely reduced demand for diesel cars in Europe and the USA will cause manufacturers to concentrate on petrol, hybrid and electric cars which will in turn make diesel cars more expensive and universally unpopular. The result being that the cost of new diesels will rocket and second hand values plummet.

You guys with diesels will need to consider the impact on your own situation before it's too late.

Don't say I didn't warn you....

[mickd]

Hi,
Emissions are a concern and the Euro levels have changed things for all, but the article states "low emission diesels " must be encouraged.
I take it this means the current,  less than 10 years old.
Nearly all sold here mention Euro level compliant,  but as VW have shown its easy to meet levels in a controlled environment. I'll bet others have done the same.
There are plenty of old oilers around,  i close the vent when stuck behind one.

[beerman]

Personally can't see how the price of second hand diesels will fall.

You have to remember that what attracted a buyer to the diesel in the new market (Economy/Power) will hold the same attraction to a second hand buyer. It could also be argued that there will still be diesel fans out there and they will seek out good second hand diesels if new are not avaliable, having an affect on prices.

Should you legislate them out of existance, there will not be sufficient sales numbers to make a profit from making them, so they will go the way of the dodo.

On VW/Audi/Skoda: I am sure that if anyone else was cheating the system it would have been discovered by now.  It should be noted that the fix that has been implemented shows that it is possible to comply with the system too....

[AlanHo]

The reality is that the much higher fuel tax that will be applied and the congestion zone penalty will price diesels out of  existence. It is inevitable.

Face facts - it is going to happen.

[mickd]

Congestion zone - don't think we have that here. ? Vastly different population /area  ratio.  Trucks and buses would also be affected,  increasing travel /transport costs.
Probably getting those types of vehicles upgraded first would be more beneficial.
Next would be any diesel loco's , construction equipment etc.
Years ago the NSW government came up with a brilliant idea-Electric loco's for freight trains ! So they bought heap of them and everyone gave themselves a pat on the back.
Pity most goods sidings aren't electrified,  Pity they took so much power going up the Blue Mountains that the sub-stations overloaded and shut down.
Last I saw of them they were all at Lithgow,  being vandalised and rusting away .

Sometimes ideas need more thought than one would have thought needed.

[Dazzler]

Sometimes ideas need more thought than one would have thought needed.

Wow, try and say that sentence fast 10 times

You make some good points for sure Mick!

[neptune]

and in whose life time will this become a change?

[asathorny]

Congestion zone - don't think we have that here. ? Vastly different population /area  ratio.  Trucks and buses would also be affected,  increasing travel /transport costs.
Probably getting those types of vehicles upgraded first would be more beneficial.
Next would be any diesel loco's , construction equipment etc.
Years ago the NSW government came up with a brilliant idea-Electric loco's for freight trains ! So they bought heap of them and everyone gave themselves a pat on the back.
Pity most goods sidings aren't electrified,  Pity they took so much power going up the Blue Mountains that the sub-stations overloaded and shut down.
Last I saw of them they were all at Lithgow,  being vandalised and rusting away .

Sometimes ideas need more thought than one would have thought needed.

I was under the misapprehension that most electric trains nowadays had there own generator onboard 

[AlanHo]

Many large diesel trains should really be called Diesel-Electric Locomotives because the diesel engine is connected to a generator and not the wheels which are driven by electric motors.

This is more efficient and reliable than huge gearboxes and clutches or fluid torque converters.

The type of trains the OP referred to were pure electric picking up the supply from either an overhead catenary system or a third rail.

[Snookes]

Personally can't see how the price of second hand diesels will fall.

You have to remember that what attracted a buyer to the diesel in the new market (Economy/Power) will hold the same attraction to a second hand buyer. It could also be argued that there will still be diesel fans out there and they will seek out good second hand diesels if new are not available, having an affect on prices.

Should you legislate them out of existence, there will not be sufficient sales numbers to make a profit from making them, so they will go the way of the dodo.

On VW/Audi/Skoda: I am sure that if anyone else was cheating the system it would have been discovered by now.  It should be noted that the fix that has been implemented shows that it is possible to comply with the system too....

The tests that found the VW issue were conducted by US agencies on US vehicles as US emissions regulations were considered more stringent than most. They wanted to prove to Europe that diesel vehicles could be less polluting. They tested three vehicles. Yes three ! Two Volkswagens and a BMW. They wanted to test a Mercedes Benz but couldn't get one.

So out of all the diesel vehicles in the world, three were tested. What about the rest ? Perhaps they got their big fish early and left it at that. There could very well be other manufacturers doing similar or worse who have got off scott-free. Yet VW gets crusified.

[mickd]

Alanho,
Your description is correct, I should have been more explicit  👍

Snookes,
Yes VW was caught out,  they admitted it,  bet others are the same , they just haven't been caught yet, probably  program removal as part of next service.

[nzenigma]

Alan's warning may hold water for London and wider Britain, however, the more progressive French require all cars in Paris to have diesel particulate filters.   This will help to phase out the old models, not all diesel cars.

Also, Britain had screwed up its car industry by 1980. Its not a manufacturer on the scale of France or Germany. The view of those two on the motor industry, will have a quite different slant to that of the Brits.

Britain is really a piddling little island when compared to Australia.
Major East Coast cities are 1000 km apart. We rely on diesel powered road transport. We have no reasonable alternative in the short to medium term.
If diesel tax was contemplated with the view to moving to some hybrid model, the transport industry would go on strike. To just tax the private motorist would be complex and the end of that government.

  I'm heading off to order my 2017 CRDi.

[Lakes]

2015 = 1732 deaths

Reported Road Casualties Great Britain - Wikipedia

Alan, we rely on Diesel to power our road trains as they need very Hi Torque to pull the weight they have too, also most long range trains use diesel, not to mention some City commuter trains in some states ( would cost too much to convert to electric.

but diesel could go up, then food prices would rise too so would not matter will still effect petrol drivers too.

You Aussies cannot be complacent about this issue - it will effect you even though you are not yet being poisoned by diesel fumes.

The savagely reduced demand for diesel cars in Europe and the USA will cause manufacturers to concentrate on petrol, hybrid and electric cars which will in turn make diesel cars more expensive and universally unpopular. The result being that the cost of new diesels will rocket and second hand values plummet.

You guys with diesels will need to consider the impact on your own situation before it's too late.

Don't say I didn't warn you....

[Lakes]

Also it has been general knowledge for a long long time diesel exh fumes are harmful to health. so is unleaded petrol fumes. LPG less so, that's why most fork lifts that operate inside are LPG or electric. so do we bring back LPG powered?

[mickd]

I had a XF Falcon on LPG,  really cheap to run.
If everyone went to LPG the gov. would raise the tax on it to the same as petrol to keep the money flowing.
Unfortunately,  that just may  well be the end of the gas bbq !

[Dazzler]

Also it has been general knowledge for a long long time diesel exh fumes are harmful to health. so is unleaded petrol fumes. LPG less so, that's why most fork lifts that operate inside are LPG or electric. so do we bring back LPG powered?

Apparently there is a shortage of gas in Australia now! 

I had a XF Falcon on LPG,  really cheap to run.
If everyone went to LPG the gov. would raise the tax on it to the same as petrol to keep the money flowing.
Unfortunately,  that just may  well be the end of the gas bbq !

I believe that has already happened to some extent...

[nzenigma]

Apparently there is a shortage of gas in Australia now! 

But not in Singapore! That's where its gone.

[Asterix]

Alanho,
Your description is correct, I should have been more explicit  👍

Snookes,
Yes VW was caught out,  they admitted it,  bet others are the same , they just haven't been caught yet, probably  program removal as part of next service.

Renault caught in ?emissiongate? scandal after report accuses it of pollution cheating ? RT Business

[Lakes]

you can get LPG to run in with diesel cleans them up and they also perform better.

[The Gonz]

I can't see Diesel disappearing any time soon in the big brown land of milk and honey. We military have built our vehicle fleets on Diesel as the most reliable single fuel source for our distances.