[Asterix]

Pics will have to wait until tomorrow, it's allmost midnight here now.

I did measure the tread after dismantling them, it was 5,5 mm all over, but I will take pic's tomorrow.

[Asterix]

As you can see here, the company Shark racing supplies adjustable rods for the rear camber, but they are at 180 USD.

I was thinking uncrewing the bolt between the suspension frame and the lower arm (under the spring), then make the hole in the suspension frame wider, to allow the bolt to adjust horizontal, that would make me able to adjust the camber, right..

[Surferdude]

Yes it would but it's almost impossible to tighten it enough so it won't slip (move) under load, thus making your adjustment problems even worse.

[Asterix]

I'm afraid you're right 

Here a pic of the summertyre on the right rear:



I just measured the rear wheels today with the spirit leveler ( is it really the right word ? )

At the bottom the leveler was set against the tyre.

On right wheel there is 17 mm at the top of the tyre. The leveler is actually level vertical with the wheel arch.





But on the left side the leveler is approx 10 mm from the arch when level vertical, and the space between leveler and tyre is here 23 mm.




There's something wrong here..

[AlanHo]

Asterix

This is off topic - for which I apologise - but is your car fitted with Continental Premium Contact tyres - the tread pattern looks similar. If so - how do you find them for cabin noise?

[Asterix]

Asterix

This is off topic - for which I apologise - but is your car fitted with Continental Premium Contact tyres - the tread pattern looks similar. If so - how do you find them for cabin noise?

Hi Alan

No apology needed. Yes, it is Conti P C 2.

They are ok, very similar, noisewise, to the Pirelli P6000 fitted when I bought the car, but I think the bad alignment of the rear provides more noise than normal, even though there's no heel and toe.

In general there's to much roadnoise in the car, but that's another issue.

[Surferdude]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.
But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.
Was one of your winter tyres worn more than the other?

I had those Contis on a hire car in the UK a coupl eof years ago and found them very quiet, so much so that I commented on them at the time. The pattern is not unlike my Duraplus.
 And yes, it's a "spirit level". The bubble is in some form of spirit (ethanol or alcohol etc).

[Asterix]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.

I've never done this kind of measuring before, but I've also not had a car before with this issue.
On my 1993 Nissan primera both camber an toe is adjustable, so no problem.

But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.

Yes, but I'm a little surprised that it would be so significant. But, I have nothing to compare with.

Was one of your winter tyres worn more than the other?

The rear left had more even wear, which surprises me, as the camber is the same for left and right.

I might just go to the tyrecenter to have another alignment done, to see if anything have changed.

Will you agree with me, if I state that more load in the car creates more negative camber..

The Conti tyres did get good result for noise in some test I saw some time ago, but I also got very nice feedback from costumers when I worked at a VW dealer. That's the main reason for buying them.

[Phil №❶]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.
But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.

Panels? The measurement is taken from the Spirit level to the tyre sidewall, so who cares about the panels. 

As far as the adjustable rods are concerned, yes they are expensive but so are 2 rear tyres that have worn unevenly and have to be tossed away. I believe your concern is when towing & 4 adults in the car, so if you got the adjustable rods, how would they be adjusted for this type of weight situation and what would happen when you're not towing or driving with less people, to me it's always going to involve some form of compromise. 

[Asterix]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.
But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.

Panels? The measurement is taken from the Spirit level to the tyre sidewall, so who cares about the panels. 

As far as the adjustable rods are concerned, yes they are expensive but so are 2 rear tyres that have worn unevenly and have to be tossed away. I believe your concern is when towing & 4 adults in the car, so if you got the adjustable rods, how would they be adjusted for this type of weight situation and what would happen when you're not towing or driving with less people, to me it's always going to involve some form of compromise. 

Well, the manufacturer allways state that alignment should be carried out at empty car, but I might just try to have the alignment done with some weight in the car to make e.g 3 persons be "standard"

[Phil №❶]

How much weight does your van place on the rear suspension Asterix & do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

[Asterix]

How much weight does your van place on the rear suspension Asterix & do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

I only have 60 kg on the towball.

Levelling springs on A frame..

None of the km's on the wintertyres are with the caravan.

[Phil №❶]

do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

Have a look at this, do you have them in your country 

http://www.hardingscaravans.com.au/preparing-to-tow-distributing-hitch.htm

[Surferdude]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.
But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.

Panels? The measurement is taken from the Spirit level to the tyre sidewall, so who cares about the panels. 

Yeah. Sorry. I should have put my glasses on to look more closely at the pics. However, Asterix makes the point that there is a diference from one side to the other but the rear camber settings are the same on both sides. Assuming the alignment settings are correct I can only assume there is some small difference in the way the spirit level is being read. It's not possible to be sure the ground is level, the car is level and the spirit level is totally accurate on both sides. To explain those a bit, a minor dip in the road surface would be enough to put the comparison between two side out. The car on an alignment machine sits (or should) on turntables on rollers which ensure the suspension is settled evenly on both sides. The bubble in the spirit level, especially in a vertical position is only positioned by eye. And if that was accurate enough there would be no need for a wheel alignment machine.
The car is sitting on what appear to me to be pavers not a level slab of concrete (but I might be wrong). And looking at the wall in front of the car (again, it's hard to tell) but it appears to be on a light slope where the floor butts up to it.

[Surferdude]

How much weight does your van place on the rear suspension Asterix & do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

I only have 60 kg on the towball.

Levelling springs on A frame..

None of the km's on the wintertyres are with the caravan.

The levelling springs help. But 60kg at the drawbar is only what it is at rest. So Acceleration, braking and dips in the road all magnify this figure or reduce it.

Although the handbooks generally say set alignments with the car empty, I know from personal experience that this is not necessarily going to give the best result. I would be inclined to pay a bit extra and take readings with two people in the car and again with four, just to see how much if any, difference it makes. If there is no difference then that's good. If there is some, a good alignment operator will have some idea what allowance to make to optimise the wear (it probably can't be eliminated).

[Surferdude]

I believe your concern is when towing & 4 adults in the car, so if you got the adjustable rods, how would they be adjusted for this type of weight situation and what would happen when you're not towing or driving with less people, to me it's always going to involve some form of compromise. 

This is a good point. Even if you have the adjustment option, it's not necessarily going to fix the problem, although it might move the wear issue to the outside shoulders, depending on when you are travelling loaded or not.

[Phil №❶]

Good comments, as usual surferdude 

[Asterix]

do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

Have a look at this, do you have them in your country 

http://www.hardingscaravans.com.au/preparing-to-tow-distributing-hitch.htm

I've never seen or heard of these, will try to search the web. Maybe they are not approved in DK/EU..

[Asterix]

I've never seen measuring like that done before Asterix although I can see what you're trying to do.
But there could be marginal differences in the panels or their mounting from one side to the other.

Panels? The measurement is taken from the Spirit level to the tyre sidewall, so who cares about the panels. 

Yeah. Sorry. I should have put my glasses on to look more closely at the pics. However, Asterix makes the point that there is a diference from one side to the other but the rear camber settings are the same on both sides. Assuming the alignment settings are correct I can only assume there is some small difference in the way the spirit level is being read. It's not possible to be sure the ground is level, the car is level and the spirit level is totally accurate on both sides. To explain those a bit, a minor dip in the road surface would be enough to put the comparison between two side out. The car on an alignment machine sits (or should) on turntables on rollers which ensure the suspension is settled evenly on both sides. The bubble in the spirit level, especially in a vertical position is only positioned by eye. And if that was accurate enough there would be no need for a wheel alignment machine.
The car is sitting on what appear to me to be pavers not a level slab of concrete (but I might be wrong). And looking at the wall in front of the car (again, it's hard to tell) but it appears to be on a light slope where the floor butts up to it.

You're right.

It is pavers, and they are not 100% level, and the driveway has an incline, so I know the readings is not accurate, but they give a good hint.

[Asterix]

How much weight does your van place on the rear suspension Asterix & do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

I only have 60 kg on the towball.

Levelling springs on A frame..

None of the km's on the wintertyres are with the caravan.

The levelling springs help. But 60kg at the drawbar is only what it is at rest. So Acceleration, braking and dips in the road all magnify this figure or reduce it.

Yes, but I expect the manufacturer, Hyundai, to have taken that into considderation.
DK law states that weight on the towball must be min. 4% of weight towed, in my case 1400x0,04=56kg, which is very fine as I have 60-65 kg on the towball. Max weight on towball is BTW 70 or 75 kg, can't remember.

BUT, I must say, I don't think the caravan is the problem, as I havent towed the caravan with the wintertyres.

How much weight does your van place on the rear suspension Asterix & do you have those caravan levelling spring things fitted to your caravan A frame 

I only have 60 kg on the towball.

Levelling springs on A frame..

None of the km's on the wintertyres are with the caravan.

Although the handbooks generally say set alignments with the car empty, I know from personal experience that this is not necessarily going to give the best result. I would be inclined to pay a bit extra and take readings with two people in the car and again with four, just to see how much if any, difference it makes. If there is no difference then that's good. If there is some, a good alignment operator will have some idea what allowance to make to optimise the wear (it probably can't be eliminated).

I will try to get a new alignment, first with empty car, then with some weight in it, it would be nice to see the difference.

[Asterix]

This is a good point. Even if you have the adjustment option, it's not necessarily going to fix the problem, although it might move the wear issue to the outside shoulders, depending on when you are travelling loaded or not.

Agree, but if I can have the camber adjusted I might get even wear.

This pic taken today after a short trip. The dirt on the tyre is all the way out to the inside of the tyre, but not all the way out to the outside.

i think it would help a lot if I could get the wear all over the tyre.



I want to thank you both for your comments, it's much appreciated. 

[Phil №❶]

I hope you investigate the ride leveler springs, they allow weight to be transferred to the driving wheels of the car. Do you have any problems with night vision and the lights pointing up to the treetops instead of on the road. The springs are extremely popular here, my friend had them fitted and says they make a huge difference to the handling of the car / van too.

The most respected brand here in Oz for towbars is Hayman Reese. Use the advantage of the internet and have a chat with them. 

[Asterix]

I hope you investigate the ride leveler springs, they allow weight to be transferred to the driving wheels of the car. Do you have any problems with night vision and the lights pointing up to the treetops instead of on the road. The springs are extremely popular here, my friend had them fitted and says they make a huge difference to the handling of the car / van too.

The most respected brand here in Oz for towbars is Hayman Reese. Use the advantage of the internet and have a chat with them. 

I will look around for the leveler springs, will also post a ? at a Danish camping forum to see if anybody have heard of it.

I have no problems with lights in the treetops, as the car is equipped with electric height adjustment of the headlights.
I allways adjust to lowest setting when driving with the caravan, day or night, as we must have daytime running light here in DK. The low beam is the DRL on the i30, here in DK, anyway.

[Phil №❶]

Just ask Princess Mary, she would have seen them in use in Tassie.