[PhireSideZA]

...starting problems seem to be quite popular in this board

Lately my car has been hesitant to start when warm, and sometimes needed me to turn the car off and on again to re-prime the fuel pump before it starts up. The starter motor sometimes makes that awful sound when the sprag clutch isn't happy and on occasion the starter has turned but all I hear is the starter motor turning, which I suspect is due to the solenoid not kicking the fork forwards to lock the gear into place on the flywheel.

I suspect a service kit is needed so I have requested some prices on that. I believe getting to the starter is easiest done via the bottom of the car, so that is the route I will be taking once I get the kit and have a few hours handy to remove and replace the parts. I tried peeping through the bonnet but all I can see is the solenoid. Seems they hid the bugger away quite well

[tw2005]

...starting problems seem to be quite popular in this board

Lately my car has been hesitant to start when warm, and sometimes needed me to turn the car off and on again to re-prime the fuel pump before it starts up. The starter motor sometimes makes that awful sound when the sprag clutch isn't happy and on occasion the starter has turned but all I hear is the starter motor turning, which I suspect is due to the solenoid not kicking the fork forwards to lock the gear into place on the flywheel.

I suspect a service kit is needed so I have requested some prices on that. I believe getting to the starter is easiest done via the bottom of the car, so that is the route I will be taking once I get the kit and have a few hours handy to remove and replace the parts. I tried peeping through the bonnet but all I can see is the solenoid. Seems they hid the bugger away quite well

Not sure what to say on this one but are all the symbols and their behaviour normal in the instrument cluster. Just thinking if it's similar to the bad ecu in panama

[Aye30]

Hello, Just one question, are you still on the original battery that came with the car?

[PhireSideZA]

Not sure what to say on this one but are all the symbols and their behaviour normal in the instrument cluster. Just thinking if it's similar to the bad ecu in panama

All normal unfortunately. No stored fault codes when using the OBD scantool either.

Sometimes when I start the car, the car cranks and attempts to start but never seems to properly start firing on all cylinders. A restart straight afterwards will give me that typical sound you get when you try to start an already running car, a sound which I think is the overrun clutch doing it's part. Once in maybe twenty starts I can hear the motor turn but the solenoid does not kick the spindle forward to engage with the flywheel. A restart usually fixes this. I will try to get a video of the behaviour sometime.

Hello, Just one question, are you still on the original battery that came with the car?

I replaced the battery in April of this year and the voltage is good at idle and with the ignition turned off. I replaced the fuel filter two weeks ago as I thought it may be that causing my issue (hard starts) but the issue still seems to persist. The occasional start that does not engage the gear with the flywheel makes me think the starter system needs attention.

Back with my old company I used my car for work and the car frequently had 30 - 40 starts per day for around three years, so it would be my thinking that it needs a little TLC

[tw2005]

Not sure what to say on this one but are all the symbols and their behaviour normal in the instrument cluster. Just thinking if it's similar to the bad ecu in panama

All normal unfortunately. No stored fault codes when using the OBD scantool either.

Sometimes when I start the car, the car cranks and attempts to start but never seems to properly start firing on all cylinders. A restart straight afterwards will give me that typical sound you get when you try to start an already running car, a sound which I think is the overrun clutch doing it's part. Once in maybe twenty starts I can hear the motor turn but the solenoid does not kick the spindle forward to engage with the flywheel. A restart usually fixes this. I will try to get a video of the behaviour sometime.

Hello, Just one question, are you still on the original battery that came with the car?

I replaced the battery in April of this year and the voltage is good at idle and with the ignition turned off. I replaced the fuel filter two weeks ago as I thought it may be that causing my issue (hard starts) but the issue still seems to persist. The occasional start that does not engage the gear with the flywheel makes me think the starter system needs attention.

Back with my old company I used my car for work and the car frequently had 30 - 40 starts per day for around three years, so it would be my thinking that it needs a little TLC

i wonder if this is another crank sensor on its way out then.

[PhireSideZA]

The crank angle sensor would definitely be a cheaper part to replace than a starter motor (Hyundai SA wants the equivalent of AU$450 for an entire unit and can't supply me with just the brushes and bushes) but the fact that the solenoid isn't kicking the shaft forward every once in a while has me thinking it may be something to do with the motor. But it's anyone's guess at this stage.

As luck would have it I have started recording a video of each and every start I do and it's been behaving well the last two days. Murphy is an ass.

[tw2005]

The crank angle sensor would definitely be a cheaper part to replace than a starter motor (Hyundai SA wants the equivalent of AU$450 for an entire unit and can't supply me with just the brushes and bushes) but the fact that the solenoid isn't kicking the shaft forward every once in a while has me thinking it may be something to do with the motor. But it's anyone's guess at this stage.

As luck would have it I have started recording a video of each and every start I do and it's been behaving well the last two days. Murphy is an ass.

They always do, patience. So what parts are you after for the starter? Worth removal and inspection first? Maybe the pinion gear is damaged and fouling preventing clean enagagement. Is it gummed up with dust (clutch dust) Do you have the starter part number?

[PhireSideZA]

My girlfriend's dad managed to source a replacement starter with the correct 8-tooth output for a little over AU$110 which should be here tomorrow. Unfortunately due to work I cannot afford to take a day's leave right now to inspect it but I will check it out this weekend. It just has to last until then.

The part no I got off of it is 36100-2B100 but I would probably look at installing the replacement motor and solenoid then stripping the existing one and seeing if I can find a kit to replace what needs replacing.

Basically I need to strip it off the car to see what's the matter, but I also can't afford to sit without it for a while and AU$110 is a small price to pay for peace of mind knowing that I have a complete unit in case I manage to break it more than it already is

[tw2005]

My girlfriend's dad managed to source a replacement starter with the correct 8-tooth output for a little over AU$110 which should be here tomorrow. Unfortunately due to work I cannot afford to take a day's leave right now to inspect it but I will check it out this weekend. It just has to last until then.

The part no I got off of it is 36100-2B100 but I would probably look at installing the replacement motor and solenoid then stripping the existing one and seeing if I can find a kit to replace what needs replacing.

Basically I need to strip it off the car to see what's the matter, but I also can't afford to sit without it for a while and AU$110 is a small price to pay for peace of mind knowing that I have a complete unit in case I manage to break it more than it already is

Overrun clutch with pinion

3613911140 and looks like it's fitted to every Hyundai imagineable

[tw2005]

solenoid 361202B100








brushes 361702B100







361002B100 starter assembly

[PhireSideZA]

Thanks for the info!

I see the same parts would be found on the Matrix...there is one standing in a road near me. Maybe I should go do some nighttime shopping rather

[PhireSideZA]

I got around to replacing the starter motor this weekend and it's not a difficult process, however there is not much space to work with.

We ended up removing the cooling fan assembly to get space to drop the new starter in from the top. The old one we removed from the bottom which kept on binding on the AC compressor pipes so it was not ideal.

I split the old starter motor as well last night. The brushes were still sufficient but there was a lot of carbon build up around the magnets. The bushes are quite worn so I think this was causing sideways drag on the shaft. I haven't tested the motor on the bench yet.

I'll try upload some pics I took when I had it apart

[tw2005]

looking a bit sad, so has a bushing worn out and the armature colliding with the internals?

[mickd]

Looks like it's been doing it for a little while.  Good solid windings in the arm .

[PhireSideZA]

looking a bit sad, so has a bushing worn out and the armature colliding with the internals?

That is what I suspect. I am an IT professional by trade, not an auto electrician or a mechanic so please excuse my limited knowledge on the subject but it does seem like the bushings are a bit tired and caused collision with the armature and the magnets. What this has to do with the issue I had where every now and again the solenoid would not kick the shaft forward to engage with the flywheel, I have no idea, but this issue has also disappeared. Perhaps the solenoid was also getting a bit tired.

Looks like it's been doing it for a little while.  Good solid windings in the arm .

I won't lie, the sound of the new starter is something to get used to. It sounds like a Mazda now, not a Hyundai anymore

[tw2005]

Well by the sounds of it the solenoid was engaging but then the armature jammed.

You must do a lot of stop start driving ?

[nzenigma]

looking a bit sad, so has a bushing worn out and the armature colliding with the internals?

That is what I suspect. I am an IT professional by trade, not an auto electrician or a mechanic so please excuse my limited knowledge on the subject but it does seem like the bushings are a bit tired and caused collision with the armature and the magnets. What this has to do with the issue I had where every now and again the solenoid would not kick the shaft forward to engage with the flywheel, I have no idea, but this issue has also disappeared. Perhaps the solenoid was also getting a bit tired.

Looks like it's been doing it for a little while.  Good solid windings in the arm .

I won't lie, the sound of the new starter is something to get used to. It sounds like a Mazda now, not a Hyundai anymore

As an observer, i have watched you apply your IT skills.
You looked at the obvious, ignored all the chatter and fixed the problem , Well done. 

[mickd]

looking a bit sad, so has a bushing worn out and the armature colliding with the internals?

That is what I suspect. I am an IT professional by trade, not an auto electrician or a mechanic so please excuse my limited knowledge on the subject but it does seem like the bushings are a bit tired and caused collision with the armature and the magnets. What this has to do with the issue I had where every now and again the solenoid would not kick the shaft forward to engage with the flywheel, I have no idea, but this issue has also disappeared. Perhaps the solenoid was also getting a bit tired.

Looks like it's been doing it for a little while.  Good solid windings in the arm .

I won't lie, the sound of the new starter is something to get used to. It sounds like a Mazda now, not a Hyundai anymore

It probably has an even lower reduction so it should spin quicker and suck a little less amps .
Trouble free again   
Did electrical apprenticeship 78-82 at BHP Newcastle. In the first year we were rebuilding motors from 12volt little ones to 415volt 800hp ( bigger ones were kept for 3rd years ) seen the same damage in them all from bearing / housing /shaft wear.

[PhireSideZA]

Well by the sounds of it the solenoid was engaging but then the armature jammed.

You must do a lot of stop start driving ?

This is also quite possible. I used to, back at my old company. It felt like 30 - 40 starts a day but was probably close to 20 - 25 starts per day, five days a week, for three years. That gives a figure of between 15600 and 19500 starts since I had the car

I now drive to work and back, so I start it a much more palatable two times per day, maybe three if I need to stop by the store on the way home

As an observer, i have watched you apply your IT skills.
You looked at the obvious, ignored all the chatter and fixed the problem , Well done. 

It was honestly my last resort as I suspected the hard starts may have had something to do with the fuel filter being a bit clogged. Thankfully not something bigger like a fuel pump or injectors

It probably has an even lower reduction so it should spin quicker and suck a little less amps .
Trouble free again   
Did electrical apprenticeship 78-82 at BHP Newcastle. In the first year we were rebuilding motors from 12volt little ones to 415volt 800hp ( bigger ones were kept for 3rd years ) seen the same damage in them all from bearing / housing /shaft wear.

I actually saw the spec sheet for the new motor, I should attach it if you are interested in it. Oddly there are no reduction gears on this specific starter motor, although there seems to be two variants available, one with 8 teeth and another with 9. My model was the former. I think it's rated for 1kW with a 1.5kW peak, and it cost ~AU$110, give or take. The brand is Arrow, one I am unfamiliar with, but if it works...

Motors are actually fascinating pieces of machinery and it's amazing when you think of how much we make use of them despite their simplicity. Your typical car has them to start the engine and to operate the fan for the HVAC, your computer should have one to keep the processor cool and to operate the hard drives if you do not use a Solid-State Drive, even your fridge has one to circulate the gas to keep your beers nice and frosty

[08crd]

Definitely looks as though the armature has been poling, worn out shaft bushes? 

How many klm's has it done?

[PhireSideZA]

The bushes have about 0.5mm, if not more, play on them. The end near the front being the worst.

Just shy of 251'000km as of now

[PhireSideZA]

254'000km update:

The new starter motor is performing well. No more signs of hesitant starting or funny sounds. However, I still haven't gotten around to fixing the old motor. Too many other projects going on right now to concentrate on just one

[Dazzler]

254'000km update:

The new starter motor is performing well. No more signs of hesitant starting or funny sounds. However, I still haven't gotten around to fixing the old motor. Too many other projects going on right now to concentrate on just one

Sounds interesting... You'll have to PM me soon Phil..