Author Topic: Steering knock  (Read 2756 times)

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Steering knock
« April 11, 2017, 22:47:31 »
I just dropped the Wife off in her 2008 i30 CRDI and noticed a knock on the steering. I read on another thread that there had been a recall :link: Hyundai Motor Company Australia Pty Ltd?Hyundai i30 (FD) Vehicle | Product Safety Australia
I rang the local dealer where we purchased the car and they said to bring it in next week as they can't look at it until after easter. Anyway I decided to take a closer look and could feel the play in the steering and knocking both when engine running and not running. First of all I drove the car up on ramps but nothing much to see as steering shaft etc mostly sealed. Then I discovered the universal joint on the inside below the steering wheel after pulling the carpet back a little, with a powerful torch I watched the UJ while I rocked the steering wheel and could 'see the play' on the splines and the upper shaft turning but not the lower due to the play. The 12mm bolt looked tight enough but when I got a socket on it i got a quarter of a turn and guess what no more play or knocking. So it appears that even though my VIN is outside of the range mentioned in the recall notice I had an incorrectly torqued bolt or worn splines. I will keep a close eye on it as its fairly accessible but just wanted to mention this in case others have similar issues.
Cheers
Mark
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 03:45:22 by i30CRDI » »



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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #1 : April 12, 2017, 03:18:36 »
I just dropped the Wife off in her 2008 i30 CRDI and noticed a knock on the steering. I read on another thread that there had been a recall :link: Hyundai Motor Company Australia Pty Ltd?Hyundai i30 (FD) Vehicle | Product Safety Australia
I rang the local dealer where we purchased the car and they said to bring it in next week as they can't look at it until after easter. Anyway I decided to take a closer look and could feel the play in the steering and knocking both when engine running and not running. First of all I drove the car up on ramps but nothing much to see as steering shaft etc mostly sealed. Then I discovered the universal joint on the inside below the steering wheel after pulling the carpet back a little, with a powerful torch I watched the UJ while I rocked the steering wheel and could 'see the play' on the splines and the upper shaft turning but not the lower due to the play. The 12mm bolt looked tight enough but when I got a socket on it i got a quarter of a turn and guess what no more play or knocking. So it appears that even though my VIN is outside of the range mentioned in the recall notice I had an correctly torqued bolt or worn splines. I will keep a close eye on it as its fairly accessible but just wanted to mention this in case others have similar issues.
Cheers
Mark

Interesting news. I have a 2008 , same problem. Just been to lazy to fault find it. maybe I should follow suit. I'd be wrapped if I just need to nip up the coupling.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #2 : April 13, 2017, 03:55:26 »
The recall is for a rubber bush in the steering column. I have replaced a few.  On my wife's 2009 FD did it twice. Seems that the replacement bush you get from the dealer is  not always made from the  'improved'  rubber.

The knock is a bit hard to locate and you tend to suspect the uni joint area, but it is not really prone to wear.
If it is the bush, it will have disintegrated. The knock will be greater when the power steer is engaged.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #3 : April 13, 2017, 06:43:56 »
The recall is for a rubber bush in the steering column. I have replaced a few.  On my wife's 2009 FD did it twice. Seems that the replacement bush you get from the dealer is  not always made from the  'improved'  rubber.

The knock is a bit hard to locate and you tend to suspect the uni joint area, but it is not really prone to wear.
If it is the bush, it will have disintegrated. The knock will be greater when the power steer is engaged.

Do you have copies of them all or reference numbers? What range was the bushing recall for because I can't find it and both of mine have been in to Hyundai. One needed the brake switch, the other had it done already but needed the MDPS software checked.

PRA No.
2014/14475
Date published
9 Dec 2014
VIN range KMHDB51ER8U029385 - KMHDC51TR8U095415
Production date June 1 2007 - Mar 31 2008

universal joint bolt on the steering column has been incorrectly tightened


PRA No.
2015/14883
Date published
26 Aug 2015


Hyundai Elantra (HD) & i30 (FD) motor driven power steering (MDPS)

MDPS inspected for either steering motor replacement or a software upgrade.

There was a TSB I stumbled on but can't find the copy now which is what I think you're talking about for the coupling.



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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #4 : April 13, 2017, 06:55:15 »
I have a copy of the TSB# HFE08-61-P020-FDHD (14 page PDF)

Should be on here somewhere?
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #5 : April 13, 2017, 07:06:12 »
That's  the part I had replaced. And yes it had disintegrated.
But when the recall TSB was issued, my VIN was outside the range.
Fulcrum Suspension replaced it for me for free anyway.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #6 : April 13, 2017, 09:42:33 »
I have a copy of the TSB# HFE08-61-P020-FDHD (14 page PDF)

Should be on here somewhere?

yep, you're right. I remember now, most of those links were dead. Found this one in english.
http://club.hyundai-i30.ru/download.php?id=2907
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #7 : April 13, 2017, 17:41:58 »
Been away. You seem to have it all now .
 Gerard the bush in the picture is still in good shape compared to the last one I did.
It appears that Hyundai used this $5 bush in most of their models sold in Euro, Oz and USA.
I have seen blogs claiming the knock is in the steering rack, uni joint, etc etc.  The source is really hard to pin down.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #8 : April 13, 2017, 17:52:09 »
Been away. You seem to have it all now .
 Gerard the bush in the picture is still in good shape compared to the last one I did.
It appears that Hyundai used this $5 bush in most of their models sold in Euro, Oz and USA.
I have seen blogs claiming the knock is in the steering rack, uni joint, etc etc.  The source is really hard to pin down.
I think you're right. I had a quick look last night. could be anywhere especially with my distance travelled. It's not bad enough too panic yet but I've got the 40K rack and steering unit gathering dust.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 00:03:00 by tw2005 » »
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #9 : April 13, 2017, 18:25:25 »
But at 40K, that steer column may not have had the bush changed. For all the effort and $5 I would replace it anyway. Also you will need to reset the 'electronic centre' or else ESP will not function.
You can overcome a need to reset centre if you mark the TDC of the column when you get the steering wheel off and mark to refit the uni shaft to the same position on the steering rack spline.

The bush replacement is quite simple, (10 minutes) the removal and refit of the column is 2hrs of contortion .

« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 21:00:18 by nzenigma » »
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #10 : April 13, 2017, 18:49:06 »
I found this on U Tube
 
It gives you some idea of the area on the power steer, but for some reason,  he tries to work on it under the dash
(he's a Pom :rolleyes:).

There is a better one , but I cant find it, that was done by a Canadian bloke. Therefore, he is quite practical and intelligent.  :happydance:  If you don't pick the Canadian accent, you know he isn't American because he does not wear gloves, safety goggles, a cap or a dustcoat.  :mrgreen:
In my opinion, he has the sense to unplug the motor and undo the 12mm shaft to rack bolt ; then do the bush change on a workbench.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 18:59:43 by nzenigma » »
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #11 : April 13, 2017, 19:05:14 »
But at 40K, that rack may not have had the bush changed. For all the effort and $5 I would replace it anyway. Also you will need to reset the 'electronic centre' or else ESP will not function.
You can overcome a need to reset centre if you mark the TDC of the column when you get the steering wheel off and mark to refit the uni shaft to the same position on the steering rack spline.

The bush replacement is quite simple, (10 minutes) the removal and refit of the column is 2hrs of contortion .

The thought has crossed my mind. I doubt very much it has been changed.Is the new part really better?

You know the taxi has no knock at all LOL. :crazy2:
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #12 : April 13, 2017, 19:06:40 »
I found this on U Tube
 
It gives you some idea of the area on the power steer, but for some reason,  he tries to work on it under the dash
(he's a Pom :rolleyes:).

There is a better one , but I cant find it, that was done by a Canadian bloke. Therefore, he is quite practical and intelligent.  :happydance:  If you don't pick the Canadian accent, you know he isn't American because he does not wear gloves, safety goggles, a cap or a dustcoat.  :mrgreen:
In my opinion, he has the sense to unplug the motor and undo the 12mm shaft to rack bolt ; then do the bush change on a workbench.

yeah I've seen a few including this one. All very interesting
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #13 : April 13, 2017, 22:34:37 »
Yes would change it, 10 mins work and $5 vs 2 hrs to pull it out again.

This under dash job is ok if you have done it before. Note he has it all apart at the start. And the bush is not a mess like your pix above.

He mentions three torx screws needed to open drive, there is also a square unit to one side that houses the electronic controller, it needs to come off; it is a plug in unit but the plug has a lot of fine pins so you cant be too rough when you reassemble it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 23:04:05 by nzenigma » »
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #14 : July 18, 2017, 03:42:39 »
Small bump.

I noticed my car falls under the VIN range for the incorrect tightening torque for the universal joint so I may check to see how loose/tight it is this weekend. I have a slight knock at times but nothing serious. If it can be remedied with a bit of a tighten, so be it. If not, I will deal with it a bit longer until I get the guts together to remove the motor and swap out the plastic gear thingamabob :goodjob2:
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #15 : July 18, 2017, 17:04:24 »
It will be the rubber bush. Not dangerous, but annoying. Now that its started to knock we know that the composition is breaking down and it will totally collapse over the next year or so.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #16 : September 19, 2017, 21:51:02 »
Thought I would update this topic because it does recur quite often.
I have a 2010 FD with 118,000km on the clock. It had a very slight play in the steering. A knocking sound seemed to be coming from the uni shaft going through the floor into the steering rack.
I would expect much more play and noise if it was the rubber bush, but decided to check anyway. Good Choice.

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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #17 : September 19, 2017, 22:50:46 »
 :Shocked:

Looks like something our puppy chewed for a week!  :crazy1:
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #18 : September 19, 2017, 22:53:21 »
Thought I would update this topic because it does recur quite often.
I have a 2010 FD with 118,000km on the clock. It had a very slight play in the steering. A knocking sound seemed to be coming from the uni shaft going through the floor into the steering rack.
I would expect much more play and noise if it was the rubber bush, but decided to check anyway. Good Choice.


Mine was worse when Fulcrum pulled it out.
All those "appendages" on yours were just loose bits of fluff on mine.  :crazy1:
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #19 : September 20, 2017, 01:31:09 »
Yes I can understand that. I posted this because it was far more damaged than I expected, given the minor rattle.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #20 : September 20, 2017, 01:46:01 »
Yes I can understand that. I posted this because it was far more damaged than I expected, given the minor rattle.
Sorry. I wasn't  playing,  " mines bigger than yours".  :whistler:
Mine was a minor knock which suddenly became a much louder knock. It would seem the wear accelerates the longer you go.
The drive to Moorooka to get it fixed was interesting to say the least.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #21 : September 20, 2017, 03:41:45 »
Sorry. I wasn't  playing,  " mines bigger than yours".  :whistler:
  :whistler: As we do :D
No problem mate, rapid failure of the bushes has surprised me in the past. Amazing the drama a $5 component can cause.
However there are a lot of mechanics who go off half cocked and claim to the client that it is a major problem (plus major$$$$) without understanding the true cause.
Hopefully the post will inform them.
Cheers G  :)
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #22 : October 15, 2017, 01:13:49 »
Hi all, I did mine today. i30 FD slx with 160k. It took about 3 hours I used the TSB as a guide and I had help putting the rack back up. I found there were a few tricks. I left the steering wheel assembly on the shaft. This was easy no problem. Didnt have to mess with the airbag or anything.

Variations/more details than TSB:-
1. Take the two screws out of the front of the steering shroud (you have to turn the wheel), Then Force the steering lock before you do next step.
2. Disconnect the battery.
3. There is one minor connector behind the mobis steering computer unit that goes back to the main loom. Its hard it figure out whether it has to be disconnected. You have to make sure is unclipped or you could easily break when you unbolt the column..
4. Be sure to mark the spline of the steering shaft to the column and reassemble is same position and don't get yourself 360deg out (I made sure of this and there was no problem with faults etc).
5. I did it without splitting the column. You have to be very ginger with the motor and cant completely lift it off, I used a couple of toothbrushes to clean up the union as my bush was completely chewed like the one above (nzenigma). I just pulled the column forward and did it in the car with the heavy end on a little kids stool. Then i lifted the motor off and up on an angle and used a allen key to get the bad rubber out and brushed all the gunky rubber out. (took a while).
6. When putting the rack back up seat it at the back bolts first there is a bit of a clip there to hold in in place then put the front nuts on loosely then get those back bolts in.
7. Make sure you have every connector re-attached and seated or it will throw a code and you'll have to deal with a hyundai dealer (which is awful)
8. I think if a mechanic will do this for you for $300-$350. Thats a good deal.

I didn't take any photos of the bush itself because that bit isnt that complicated. The last photo has the connector i nearly broke circled. My car steers like a charm now, happy that it all went well and wasnt any major hassles.









« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:34:09 by crazykev » »
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #23 : October 15, 2017, 03:38:38 »
Thanks for sharing.  You got lots of thank yous for that!
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #24 : October 15, 2017, 04:37:48 »
nice one. now that you're proficient , how many slabs does this equate too? where did you get the coupling from?
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #25 : October 15, 2017, 16:38:18 »
Yes good one.

The couplings are available at a HY dealer spares dept. I get mine at Brendale.
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #26 : October 15, 2017, 18:19:04 »
Here is one for our resident techies:-

What actually makes this bush degrade?
Is it:-
*time
*amount of km travelled
*amount of city driving (involving lots of steering input) as opposed to open road driving
*repeatedly turning the steering wheel whilst the wheels are stationary
*something else

I have read somewhere that there is a newish/improved bush that supposedly lasts longer. Is this true...and if so, how much more durable is it than the original one. How can this more durable bush be identified?

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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #27 : October 15, 2017, 19:16:53 »
Here is one for our resident techies:-

What actually makes this bush degrade?
Is it:-
*time
*amount of km travelled
*amount of city driving (involving lots of steering input) as opposed to open road driving
*repeatedly turning the steering wheel whilst the wheels are stationary
*something else

I have read somewhere that there is a newish/improved bush that supposedly lasts longer. Is this true...and if so, how much more durable is it than the original one. How can this more durable bush be identified?
Interesting question.
One would only hope that Hy has recognized the issue and developed a more durable item.
It's been a problem since very early in the FD existence.
And, as most cars now have EPS, do other manufacturers have a similar bush? (not suggesting they're interchangeable, just be interesting to know how their compound compares with Hy's).
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #28 : October 15, 2017, 19:53:05 »
Here is one for our resident techies:-

What actually makes this bush degrade?
Is it:-
*time
*amount of km travelled
*amount of city driving (involving lots of steering input) as opposed to open road driving
*repeatedly turning the steering wheel whilst the wheels are stationary
*something else

I have read somewhere that there is a newish/improved bush that supposedly lasts longer. Is this true...and if so, how much more durable is it than the original one. How can this more durable bush be identified?
Interesting question.
One would only hope that Hy has recognized the issue and developed a more durable item.
It's been a problem since very early in the FD existence.
And, as most cars now have EPS, do other manufacturers have a similar bush? (not suggesting they're interchangeable, just be interesting to know how their compound compares with Hy's).

Good question indeed  !
Maybe they all.use the same bush and all have the same problem  $$$$ 
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Re: Steering knock
« Reply #29 : October 15, 2017, 23:04:05 »
*time
*amount of km travelled
*amount of city driving (involving lots of steering input) as opposed to open road driving
*repeatedly turning the steering wheel whilst the wheels are stationary
*something else
 how much more durable is it than the original one. How can this more durable bush be identified?

Hi mate. Last question first.  The new ones are supposed to be more durable but :whistler: we await. They look exactly like the pictured ones of old. But the only ones I have seen are damaged beyond recognition.
 Re your first 5 questions,; I have to say none of them seem to apply.

Some examples:
2009 FD replaced at about 60,000km in 2013
2010 FD  replaced at 118,000 km in 2017
2011 FD  replaced at 23,800 km in 2016 ( this part was in storage at 23K before re-use; broke down soon after.)
2009 FD still ok at 112,000km in 2017.
2011 FD still ok at 24,500 km in 2017

and Mick , to my knowledge this bush is only in Hyundai columns and it is a problem here and North America.
Not sure about Europe, maybe someone can speak to that.


« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 16:27:54 by nzenigma » »
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