The i30 Owners Club

PROBLEMS & ISSUES => DIESEL => Topic started by: captaintweed on May 12, 2017, 14:31:55

Title: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: captaintweed on May 12, 2017, 14:31:55
Hi there folks

*brief explanation of problem*
Car randomly won't start as key is turned to ignition position - something goes 'click' and all electric power is lost, problem only is remedied by disconnecting battery and reconnecting. Then car operates fine

*detailed explanation of problem*
First happened 6 weeks ago, 2nd time today, garage won't/can't help as fault is intermittent.
As I insert key, mile count is visible. As I turn key, the various lights etc come on. Turn to ignition, and a click is heard, similar to a short but not the same, and then all electricity goes. Starter doesn't even make it to start turning over. No lights, no mile count, zero. As stated above, disconnect/reconnect the battery is the only way I know of 'fixing' the issue.
Have checked:
 - battery - had it checked at local garage, full of juice and voltage solid. battery a new Bosch bought of feb 17
 - no corrosion or buildup on terminals
 - fuses - all fuses look good, cant tell with the box shaped ones but regardless, could it be a fuse issue if I'm still able to run the car after battery disconnect/reconnect?

Garage say that they can't help until it happens again, which is understandable but doesn't help as it could strand me or the missus (as it did today!)

Anyone seen anything like this before? Any hints as to what to try looking for?

Vehicle in question is a 60 plate (2010) auto diesel i30

Thanks for reading
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Asterix on May 12, 2017, 16:02:42
Bad earth connection from battery to chassis..?

They're attached just behind the battery on the suspension tower.... (or whatever it's called where you are)  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on May 12, 2017, 17:24:19
This would also be my first investigation:
Bad earth connection from battery to chassis..?

It could be the terminal clamps, ( look for corrosion) it sounds like you are moving the culprit part when you disconnect the battery.
When it next fails, without moving anything, try using a jumper lead to create another earth, or bridge the +ve terminal.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: beerman on May 12, 2017, 21:52:59
If that dosent work sometimes the receptor thingy that receives the key goes out and does not allow the car to start.

I suspect the car going click is the security system stopping the car from starting.

See below, it appears the receptor thingy is called an antenna coil....

:link: 2010 i30 FD Crdi Immobilizer problem 2nd time in the month code P1690 (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=35195.0) Our resident Guru explains things in mechanic, much better than I can.....

If it is the problem the part fairly cheap in ebay (30)
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Phil №❶ on May 13, 2017, 04:43:15
Next time it happens, check the full length of your earth lead from the battery and also the positive lead. If acid has gotten inside the cable it should be quite warm to the touch, due to high resistance.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: captaintweed on May 13, 2017, 05:40:08
Thanks everyone. I'll try some of the above and report back hopefully with success.

Thanks for your input
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: yodm on May 15, 2017, 04:37:48
as everything goes dead, and back to life after disconnecting the battery, I would suspect a main relay issue.
it seems to me that there is an electric component, that shuts off all car electric.
I know that some car models have a jumper in the fuse box for long hibernation, it cuts off most of the circuits.
there is a similar issue in Citroen C4 (but not exactly the same)
maybe worth a look :link: Forums / Problems and issues / Battery Charging Fault. Car will not start - Electric Fault Message on 2012 Citroen C4 1.6HDi VTR+ - C4 - DS4 Owners (http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?206242)
good luck
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: captaintweed on May 18, 2017, 12:02:24
Hi folks

My wife took the car out for an errand and reported that it momentarily lost power as she drove it. So needless to say as soon as I got home set to work trying some of your suggestions.

Fitted a new earth cable from negative to chassis - and the problem happened again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk55CsdumD8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk55CsdumD8)

Disconnected and reconnected the battery and its working again - for now.

Any suggestions based on the video??

Best to all
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: CraigB on May 18, 2017, 12:13:29
Could it possibly be the battery in the key is on it's way out which is making the immobiliser kick in :undecided:
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: eye30 on May 18, 2017, 15:55:47
Could it possibly be the battery in the key is on it's way out which is making the immobiliser kick in :undecided:
Have you a spare key you can try?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: captaintweed on May 18, 2017, 16:19:56
Afraid no spare key, so may well have the battery replaced. Can't hurt!

In reply to Asterix, have checked earth (looks good) and have added another cable from neg terminal to top of suspension tower in case.

BTW, I've noticed that the positive terminal connection has a fair amount of play around the terminal post. This is with bolt fully 'tightened' - could this be an issue that its not tight tight?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Shambles on May 18, 2017, 16:30:53
You shouldn't be able to wiggle either terminal connection.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on May 18, 2017, 17:29:42
Afraid no spare key, so may well have the battery replaced. Can't hurt!

In reply to Asterix, have checked earth (looks good) and have added another cable from neg terminal to top of suspension tower in case.

BTW, I've noticed that the positive terminal connection has a fair amount of play around the terminal post. This is with bolt fully 'tightened' - could this be an issue that its not tight tight?

Hi mate, thanks for the video. Forget the key theory, the car is losing all power at or near the battery. By 'near' the battery, I mean the cables that go from the +ve terminal to fuse box . Im discounting -Ve ( earth) because you have added an extra lead.
The movement on the terminal sounds sus!  The battery clamps on the i30 tend to cut into the lead terminal so they make good contact. Its possible that it has bitten too deep and is only making partial contact.
I had this problem with an i30 that had an after market battery that did not have the terminals recessed as much the original.
 The loss of power when your wife was driving could be battery related, however, if the motor is running the alternator will still power the system sufficiently without the battery connected. But using lights and wipers will drag the alternator down.
So  :rolleyes:, after all that, I would make sure that +ve terminal and the inside of the clamp are clean. Use some emery paper or steel wool to polish the metal.
A old Kiwi trick....lift the bonnet up at night. Have wife start/fail the car while you watch the DARK engine bay for sparks  :goodjob2:.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Phil №❶ on May 19, 2017, 03:19:36
+ terminal must be a tight fit. Diesel's consume more energy to start than petrol models sand the compression is much higher so a good contact with both sides of battery is necessary.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: rfa on August 03, 2017, 05:53:12
Oh no have I made a mistake coming back to an Hyundai, I had 2 years of hell with this problem with an accent, numerous sensors under the bonnet was changed, the engine management system was changed and finally they had the car for 7 weeks and the wiring loom was changed the dealership was as frustated as I was the new wiring loom did not solve the problem, so hyundai UK changed the car. So hopefully you resolve your problem soon
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 03, 2017, 17:31:39
Oh no have I made a mistake coming back to an Hyundai, I had 2 years of hell with this problem with an accent, numerous sensors under the bonnet was changed, the engine management system was changed and finally they had the car for 7 weeks and the wiring loom was changed the dealership was as frustated as I was the new wiring loom did not solve the problem, so hyundai UK changed the car. So hopefully you resolve your problem soon

 :'(  Thanks for that, can you explain how this information can assist captaintweed ?

Oh no have I made a mistake coming back to an Hyundai, I had 2 years of hell with this problem with an accent,

 :scared: How many Hyundais and how many 'things' including wiring looms have contributed to your ongoing religious experience.?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: rfa on August 03, 2017, 18:15:45
are well i can see that the forums going to be fun!!! Just pointing out that this intermittent starting problem may not get resolved, mine was only resolved by the car being replaced, and as indicated 1000's was spent on trying to resolve the problem, note the wiring loom is one of, if not the first fit on the assembly line, it therefore follows that its replacement is not a 5 minute job. I'm just giving an heads up in case this problem is a protracted one. Hopefully not but you never know.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: sundiz on August 03, 2017, 22:50:57
Could it be in the connectors of the ignition lock. Or in the lock itself.

What gomes to i30 battery terminals, the originals are quite poor quality. After time the seem to come loose as the metal bents due stress. Also they cant get tighter grip due their mechanical structure. By over tighting the terminal it will loose its structure and come loose. I changed my terminals to "old school" solid metal ones and ditched the sheet metal ones. After change I never had issues with loose battery terminals.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 04, 2017, 01:30:28
What gomes to i30 battery terminals, the originals are quite poor quality. After time the seem to come loose as the metal bents due stress. Also they cant get tighter grip due their mechanical structure. By over tighting the terminal it will loose its structure and come loose. I changed my terminals to "old school" solid metal ones and ditched the sheet metal ones. After change I never had issues with loose battery terminals.

 :goodjob2: Absolutely correct. The sheet metal also bites into the battery terminal eventually making the contact worse.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 04, 2017, 01:55:16
are well i can see that the forums going to be fun!!! Just pointing out that this intermittent starting problem may not get resolved, mine was only resolved by the car being replaced, and as indicated 1000's was spent on trying to resolve the problem, note the wiring loom is one of, if not the first fit on the assembly line, it therefore follows that its replacement is not a 5 minute job. I'm just giving an heads up in case this problem is a protracted one. Hopefully not but you never know.

Sorry mate , but you have presented your fault (that was never correctly identified or repaired) as if it is the solution to the one under discussion.
There are a myriad of different faults that cause any car to stop or not start . Hyundai is not unique in this, as you seem to suggest.

I sympathise with you over your unique problem.  However, the described repair procedure and the outcome would suggest that the problem lay more with incompetent mechanics rather than bad design or poor component quality.

Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Shambles on August 04, 2017, 03:15:53
@captaintweed: any updates mate?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: rfa on August 04, 2017, 06:27:28
I should really now ignore this thread, but common sense does not prevail.
apart from  perhaps the first 2 visits to the supplying dealership all other work carried out on the vehicle was under the guidance of Hyundai tech department. Indeed at the stage when they changed the engine management system, and needless to say that a dealership would not carryout such an expensive, hopeful solution without Hyundai approval. As they would have done for changing the wiring loom.
Captainweed hi does the car increase engine revs of its own accord? say when stopped at a junction etc?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Aye30 on August 04, 2017, 08:43:19
Hello, troubleshooting this could be tricky - When the battery is disconnected, something could be unlatching (electronically). To me, it looks like  something is drawing too much current and causing either a protection type circuit to engage, or one of the relays which says ok to supply power is not getting the current it needs. Disconnecting the battery, and also the ecu, could possibly be resetting the system. I would look at the relays in the engine bay.  Are they getting the volts required to engage ? If not then why not? It could be something as simple as carbon build up on the relay contacts. I hope you find the problem soon.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 04, 2017, 17:25:39
Hello, troubleshooting this could be tricky - When the battery is disconnected, something could be unlatching (electronically). To me, it looks like  something is drawing too much current and causing either a protection type circuit to engage, or one of the relays which says ok to supply power is not getting the current it needs. Disconnecting the battery, and also the ecu, could possibly be resetting the system. I would look at the relays in the engine bay.  Are they getting the volts required to engage ? If not then why not? It could be something as simple as carbon build up on the relay contacts. I hope you find the problem soon.

Various components/functions on the i30 have separate circuits and protection.  If you look at the video, everything shuts down. No voltage anywhere. So where does that lead us to?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 04, 2017, 17:49:00
apart from  perhaps the first 2 visits to the supplying dealership all other work carried out on the vehicle was under the guidance of Hyundai tech department. Indeed at the stage when they changed the engine management system, and needless to say that a dealership would not carryout such an expensive, hopeful solution without Hyundai approval. As they would have done for changing the wiring loom.

An unskilled mechanic will still be unskilled even with supervision.
A skilled mechanic will rarely have enough electronic knowledge to quickly fault find an elusive electronic fault.
You have presented a bizarre repair procedure without giving a definitive description of the original fault.
I can only assume that what ever caused you such grief was an intermittent fault.
If that is the case, it was what we called a 'dog repair'.
Dogs are time consuming and the machine needs to be set up with instruments to detect anomalies when they occur.
These anomalies form a body of evidence that can be critically analysed by a technician with an ability in both logical and lateral thinking.
To date, your reports refer to none of these factors.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: rfa on August 05, 2017, 03:43:35
I'm sorry but my first post indicated that i had, had the same problem as is being experienced by Captainweed hence my post,and to repeat myself my problem was resolved by the vehicle being replaced by Hyundai UK.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Phil №❶ on August 05, 2017, 04:56:14
Even though you believe the battery is good, have you tried using some jumper leads and a second battery.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: Dazzler on August 05, 2017, 17:48:16
Even though you believe the battery is good, have you tried using some jumper leads and a second battery.
A good suggestion Phil, being intermittent though result might not be conclusive.  Certainly worth a try though.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 05, 2017, 19:17:10
Oh no have I made a mistake coming back to an Hyundai, I had 2 years of hell with this problem with an accent, numerous sensors under the bonnet was changed, the engine management system was changed and finally they had the car for 7 weeks and the wiring loom was changed the dealership was as frustated as I was the new wiring loom did not solve the problem, so hyundai UK changed the car. ............

Even though you believe the battery is good, have you tried using some jumper leads and a second battery.
A good suggestion Phil, being intermittent though result might not be conclusive.  Certainly worth a try though.

I dont think he needs battery or leads. it seems he has a new car that goes.

Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: mickd on August 07, 2017, 03:30:16
Captiantweed ,
Any updates re problem ?
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 07, 2017, 04:27:24
  :disapp: Mate, Unfortunately , this is an 'instant gratification;move-on world'.
I can point to many 'members' who have received good advice from 'us' and never acknowledged the help.
Even if they reply that it didn't help , it will help us understand/translate the original complaint.
Good results help others.
Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: mgauci17 on August 12, 2017, 18:28:00
Hi I had the same issue on my Hyundai i30 2008 1.4petrol I took it to the Hyundai Service Centre and they replaced an antenna which connects to the key to authenticate and leta the car start!!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Car intermittently won't start - doesn't appear to be battery
Post by: nzenigma on August 12, 2017, 19:16:48
Unfortunately, anything causing 'no-start-not-battery';  be it running out of fuel or a seized motor,  gets labelled "the same issue".

To be more precise, this is close to your issue.
     :link: Immobiliser Light OFF and not starting_REPAIRED (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=45227.msg433997#msg433997)

But, thanks, you just reminded me to update the topic.  :) :)