The i30 Owners Club

PROBLEMS & ISSUES => DIESEL => Topic started by: charlie8 on September 16, 2017, 03:36:22

Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 16, 2017, 03:36:22
A set of issues been bugging me if any one can help

ESC light comes on on every drive cycle at at 50 mph - stays lit. Turn car off/on it resets, then 50 mph again
Start/stop does not work
Cruise control won't engage
On gear change, revs seem to drop dramatically almost lurches

ODBII reader - no codes

I have tried - checking all wheel sensors/cleaned. All rotor teeth seem present
Brake light come on OK - so switch is good ?

Dealer wants £96 to read the code - thats a 5 min job - so I am fighting all logic to work out whats wrong than pay anyone who thinks thats acceptable price

If a wheel sensor, ABS light shoudl be on too
Throttle pos sensor would show hunting revs or instability - it does not
If I stamp on brakes - ABS works. If I try and wheel spin ESC light flashes. So  that seems good

ANy clues ?




Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: tw2005 on September 16, 2017, 03:52:33
A set of issues been bugging me if any one can help

ESC light comes on on every drive cycle at at 50 mph - stays lit. Turn car off/on it resets, then 50 mph again
Start/stop does not work
Cruise control won't engage
On gear change, revs seem to drop dramatically almost lurches

ODBII reader - no codes

I have tried - checking all wheel sensors/cleaned. All rotor teeth seem present
Brake light come on OK - so switch is good ?

Dealer wants £96 to read the code - thats a 5 min job - so I am fighting all logic to work out whats wrong than pay anyone who thinks thats acceptable price

If a wheel sensor, ABS light shoudl be on too
Throttle pos sensor would show hunting revs or instability - it does not
If I stamp on brakes - ABS works. If I try and wheel spin ESC light flashes. So  that seems good

ANy clues ?

FD Series.?

I thought there was a recall for defective brake switch for ESC light coming on? Free fix

My hatch had the ESC coming on and staying lit, clearing after restart and randomly coming on. Had Free replace as it's a known defect and recall over here at least. I'd expect the same all over the world but the problem has not come back since.

Dealer should be able to check if th ework has been done via vin. Contact Hyundai and check? Try another dealer?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 16, 2017, 04:53:44
Welcome Charlie,

It pays to put in your location (at least country) and Model/year when setting up your account profile, especially if you want help. We are a world wide forum and vehicles vary by location and factory of manufacture.  :cool:

Brake light switch issue can be random so brake light coming on doesn't always mean it is ok. It maybe something else but that is the easiest and most likely cause.

Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 16, 2017, 05:11:16
Sorry yes good point.

This is 2012 1.6CDRi, and UK version ( so no Aussie recall ), FSH so Hyundai should have done everything when serviced. Annoyingly this happened 6 weeks after warranty expired :(

Ideas about brake switch I thought too, however brake lights are ok and hence circuit should be good ? And that should trigger the light under 50 mpg, from what I have read ..... I think
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 16, 2017, 05:20:05
Sorry the model transitioned from series 1 (FD) to series 2 (GD) in 2012, so is it a series one or a series 2. Our Logo has a series 1 on the left and series 2 on the right. Yes the 50km thing is a bit odd. hopefully someone will have a brainwave.  :undecided:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: tw2005 on September 16, 2017, 06:16:03
Sorry yes good point.

This is 2012 1.6CDRi, and UK version ( so no Aussie recall ), FSH so Hyundai should have done everything when serviced. Annoyingly this happened 6 weeks after warranty expired :(

Ideas about brake switch I thought too, however brake lights are ok and hence circuit should be good ? And that should trigger the light under 50 mpg, from what I have read ..... I think

I had to do some homework. Sorry it was ESP off light was the brake switch related issue I had. So ESC, I don't know but there would be a few sensors tied into that. I would think a fault code scan whilst the error is displayed would be a start point.

Interstingly we had a voluntary recall on the ESC module too over here end of 2010 to 2012 FD series.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 16, 2017, 07:38:35

Thanks so far - its the GD

I tried the ECU reset via the battery disconnect for 30 mins - hit 50 mph and on it comes again :( Checked it does it in a different gear too

The brake lights seem fine, even just a slight touch sets them good

There is an obvious link somewhere, but just need someone to know the algorithm at 50 mph that throws it.

I still refuse to pay £96 for a simple code read - makes me want to steer clear of Hyundai for good, but does not seem to be Hyundai specialists out there that can read the ABS or DCS modules
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: eye30 on September 16, 2017, 08:12:00
If paying the £96 and problem i/d have they indicated the money will be offset towards any remedial action?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 16, 2017, 08:41:55
I'll tag two of our other technical advisors and see if they have any ideas.. just don't mention exhaust wrap.... @nzenigma and @cruiserfied
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: The Gonz on September 16, 2017, 09:37:01
.. just don't mention exhaust wrap....
ns
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 16, 2017, 11:52:13
For a minute I thought I had it via the clutch switch, that would explain a lot if it did not think it ever got out of neutral as an on/off switch. By car ONLY starts with clutch down - so I guess its not that

Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: eye30 on September 16, 2017, 13:55:12
Have you tried changing fuse to see if that cures it?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: sundiz on September 16, 2017, 15:44:17
Not sure if Hyundai might have same issues, but at one point Mercedes had similar issues. It was caused by uneven tyre wear. Front and rear tyres did not have same radius and the "speed" difference became too big in higher speeds. Also happened with different brand (same size)tyres on front and rear axel.  And especially if front and rear had different size tyres...
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: tw2005 on September 16, 2017, 17:43:54
.. just don't mention exhaust wrap....
ns

Cheap option. How many ply would you recommend? Personally I prefer the printed version.

(https://www.dhresource.com/260x260s/f2-albu-g5-M01-CC-F3-rBVaJFkBSCGAfJU2AABUd5JBEQA904.jpg/gag-gifts-new-toilet-paper-with-donald-trump.jpg)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 16, 2017, 17:50:25
Hi Charlie.
This sounds like a programme glitch. The 50 mph occurrence seems too precise to be a mechanical or intermittent device problem. Same verdict when you try to force the ESC to operate. :'(
The dealer who simply wants to read codes is a rip off merchant and hasn't, or isn't capable of, getting his head around this.
I would try to find another repairer. It will require on-road testing.

Have you tried driving after  turning off ESC at startup? If you have sport mode, you need to press that button and the ESC button simultaneously. Could be a way of noting a problem or even induce a reset.

Sorry cant be of more help. Lets see if @cruiserfied is about. He's our genius.
 
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 16, 2017, 17:54:04
.. just don't mention exhaust wrap....
ns

Good on ya Dazz    :(   Now emerges all our resident shite stirrers .  :rolleyes:

 :rofl:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 17, 2017, 16:35:52
Yes, tried ESP off when started - 50mph and the ESP warning light comes on

I note there is a clutch down switch that seems to work, but what tells the man gearbox that it is in neutral - presume it cannot just be the its not fully engaged ?

The ISG used to always stop as soon as go into neutral - so is there a switch some else to tell when its in neutral rather that just no signal from a fully down clutch pedal ?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 17, 2017, 17:17:55
There may ??? be a link to the ISG, we don't have it in Australian i30s. Possibly because it seems to be problematic.  :link: ISG not working (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=41544.0)

Q. Is the ESC problem Rpm. related?
 In other words, does the light come on at 50mph in both 5th and 6th gear? Assuming its a 6 speed box.

May be contradicted by a Brit owner, but clutch down switch is normally unrelated to neutral, eg. you can start in any gear.
The box neutral switch is midway down the front of the box, it looks like an oil pressure switch.

Neutral Gear Switch senses the driver′s intension to shift gear.

When vehicle starts to move after standing for a while and vehicle speed does not reach 2Km/h, fuel quantity mapping value at neutral gear is adopted to vehicle.

Moreover, this phenomenon is more serious when vehicle requires high power generation such as the situation when vehicle is on the slope.

To cope with this problem, neutral gear switch which senses driver′s intension of starting to move is applied. And fuel injection quantity mapping value suitable for 1st gear is adopted immediately.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 18, 2017, 02:10:03
Interesting and thanks you

Yes ESC comes on in different gears, I tried this already to remove the link to RPM, it does seem to be all speed

This is the bit I don't get, if the ISG and cruise control might be explained by a bad neutral switch and info about the state of the transmission, whats the link to the ESC and 50 mph ?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 18, 2017, 17:26:31
I'm bouncing thoughts across the globe so :confused: here goes again;

I think you only have one component / programme causing the drama.

the 'ESC off' trigger must originate from the gearbox output sensor ( its a hall effect sensor on the gearbox above the driveshafts.) May be interesting to disconnect it. They are usually trouble free, but could be doing its own thing, or the ECU is using the signal to do same.

Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) is hall sensor type and senses the rotating speed of differential gear mounted on transaxle.

Comparing engine speed with vehicle speed calculated based on vehicle speed sensor signal, ECM recognizes engaged gear.

And based on the information about engaged gear, ECM performs optimum fuel injection quantity correction.

VSS signal is also used in speed meter of cluster, aircon control module, BCM, etc.



The FD model brake switches have 2 circuits, one for stop lights, the other to turn off cruise control. When faulty, they will also cause the ESP/ESC light to turn on. Restart the car and ESP light will be off. Similar to your problem. Keep digging :goodjob2:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 18, 2017, 22:06:43
Charlie,  This constant 50mph has me thinking that the problem lies in the area where you set a speed. The cruise control.
Have a think around that area. Could be a faulty module or as simple as a sticky button.
cheers
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 18, 2017, 23:37:25
Nice lateral thinking Gary. Thanks for your input!  :goodjob:

I wasn't wrapped in that other thread, but this is a good one.  :snigger:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 19, 2017, 08:05:03
Thanks everyone, it feels like we are getting warmer

The job of the VSS does seem to be a common denominator based of how you describe. I had naively assumed that if my speedo was working  then it must be OK, without knowing the detail of what else it does, like which gear.

Also, I recall when I got Hyundai to change my front brakes ( a few weeks before this happened ) they talked about a free check they needed to do around the a drive shaft ( I presume some kind of silent safety check ). They said on pick up there was nothing to do so I  did not push for details, but if someone was sniffing around there .....

Can you help me ID where that sensor is, I had a quick sniff around for the neutral switch last night in the bay based on what you said, but found it hard to locate and limited pics on-line. Do you have pics handy about the VSS location, so I don't mess with the wrong plug  ?

I guess the sensor cannot be totally out as presume this would reg as a perm fault even at low speed ?



Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 19, 2017, 16:17:37
OK Have a box out at the moment. Got a few things on early tday, but back this pm. G
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 19, 2017, 22:44:30
Sorry just remembered its a GD auto and my manual boxes are FD.

This is neutral switch
(https://i.imgur.com/GaehCI3.gif)

and speed sensor
(https://i.imgur.com/atvML81.gif)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 20, 2017, 07:50:10
Thanks alot

Crikey I can just about see a ARB and steering rack to figure out the intermidiate connector location - what is that BTW ?

The VSS looks in 2 parts - the mechanical and electrical - I guess the top bit that could be at fault with mine, else the speedo would definitely not work
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 20, 2017, 15:32:46
The top Hall effect unit used to be a solid speedo cable back in the good old days.
Don't ignore the possible 50mph Cruise setting. If CC is optional in the British GDs, I suspect there will be a  module that can be disconnected.
Just checked, switches go directly to the ECU, however , several listed CC faults are due to a faulty speed sensor.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 20, 2017, 16:57:58
You are most helpful -  a credit to the forum - i will explore at the weekend armed with this knowledge

A virtual rounds on me :)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 20, 2017, 17:46:31
You are most helpful -  a credit to the forum - i will explore at the weekend armed with this knowledge

A virtual rounds on me :)

He can be a "stirrer" too.. But it's great to see good help being given and acknowledged  :goodjob:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: mickd on September 20, 2017, 22:38:33
Have been following this post , sometimes re-reading as well and thinking , canal, far-canal.

Looked at a FD yesterday as replacement for yougest's dead 323.
 ESP OFF was illuminated,  pressed the switch a couple of times, still illuminated.
Dealer said "ohh, we'll fix that easy, but guys like us don't need that to drive",   :eek:
Car supposedly had a 100 point safety check.

Walked away rememberingthis post.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 21, 2017, 00:35:46
Sounds wise Mick!
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: The Gonz on September 21, 2017, 00:43:48
If it's worth including an indicator, it's worth paying attention to the problem. :crazy1:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 21, 2017, 03:38:40
If it's worth including an indicator, it's worth paying attention to the problem. :crazy1:
That's why "stirrers" have BS indicators.  ;)  :happydance:

@mickd , mate if the battery has been flat or disconnected, the ESP OFF light will light until you drive it , do a turn or two and then switch off ignition. Next start ESP should reset and light will be off. Probably too "scientific" for your salesman..  :goodjob2:

Regarding Charlie's problem, I'm just taking long distance punts, its apparently related to road speed and not engine speed (rpm). Hope it helps. :undecided:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: mickd on September 21, 2017, 03:43:21
Thanks for the info NZ, we did start engine and spin steering but didn't actually move the car.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: tw2005 on September 21, 2017, 06:11:59
I'm wondering if ABS sensors could be part of this mix too.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 21, 2017, 15:18:22
Maybe. But would look at the age of the battery first. If its been in a yard for a while with a door ajar , it could have gone flat and been recharged.
If Ive been working on one and had battery disconnected, the ESP will be off. I just go into the paddock and do one full left turn and same right and its cured.
Actually, never had any ABS faults on the i30. Touch wood!
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 21, 2017, 17:32:47
Another interesting observation today

Clutch down at speed - will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) to 1K, no less
Clutch down at stop - will drop to 850-900

So something seems to be telling the car its moving to pick one of the two options depending on moving or not

I have a Kia also, very similar, and noted just how different the clutch down experience is, and how it was on my i30 before this all started. At speed Kia holds the revs momentarily for 1-2 secs then drops fairly slowly, mine plummets.

From my research, if a wheel sensor was out then the ABS light would show for the diff reading, for me its only ESC and at 50 mph. Just to be clear, its the ESC light, not the ESC OFF light. AND all the others issues I see due to this
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Aye30 on September 22, 2017, 04:44:03
Hello, just looking at your last post "Just to be clear, its the EPS light, not the ESP OFF light"  EPS is another system, which up until this point, had not been mentioned.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 22, 2017, 16:50:02
Jees what a numpty, so much internet surfing on the subject, brain and fingers are not working together. Edited above to make it right. No ESP probs, never has been
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 22, 2017, 16:51:20
Electronic stability control (ESC) is also referred to as electronic stability program (ESP)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 22, 2017, 17:18:30
Just to be clear, its the ESC light, not the ESC OFF light. AND all the others issues I see due to this

That seems to tell me the ECU is trying to 'reset' for want of a better term. Similar to the cluster at start up, its indicating that you have functioning  ESC/ESP.

Clutch down at speed - will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) to 1K, no less
Clutch down at stop - will drop to 850-900

 At speed Kia holds the revs momentarily for 1-2 secs then drops fairly slowly, mine plummets.

Just to come back to Cruise Control and the non-functioning ISG .There must be some correlation. Do the revs drop rapidly in the Kia if you are using CC?
In the i30, is the rpm drop similar to braking while using CC or cant you get it to work ever ?

Can you start the car, then disconnect the clutch switch , then drive normally? Do the revs drop?

Not having ISG on an i30 here, Im relying on the rants in unreliable Euro posts. :crazy2: Can you disable ISG at startup or better still permanently?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 22, 2017, 18:36:55
Battery Voltage????? Check it.
Low voltage or faulty LIN sensor will influence ISG
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 23, 2017, 03:38:45
Just to summarise the data in one place ( i30 76K, 2012 UK 1.6CRDi BLue Active - GD ). Issues below all started at once,  6 weeks ago now.

Symptoms

Car starts fine - everytime - every ~20 days it does feel a bit lumpy on tickover for a short while, been like this for a ~ year
No lights on at start or driving ( < 50 mph )
ISG stopped working
CC not working - switches on and dash light, but can never set a speed
Clutch down when moving - RPM will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) and goto 1K if left, no less. This happens even with no ESC light on ie from start
50 mph ESC light comes on ( whatever gear )

Notes

There are no other lights, no other symptoms, car drives fine in all cases other than bad/jolty gear change because the revs drop so much with clutch down
Brake lights are fine
ABS working when I stamp on the brakes
ESC light flashes when I force a wheel spin ( when light is on )
Car ONLY starts with clutch down
ECU reset ( battery disconnect ) no difference
No ODBII codes pending or set ( even with ESC light on )
My OBDII run time showed throttle at 12% and never moving - I don't believe the PID is right as revs never hunt and fluctuate on drive cycle
Wheels off, every disc/pad seated OK, plenty of wear, pulled wheels sensors, all cleaned, cables look good

Secondary Notes

One wheel has a puncture repair ( 2 years ago ), can see rubber 'stool' in the tread
Rear tyres nearing limiters, fronts quite new.
Tyre pressures all good





Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 23, 2017, 04:25:39
Just to summarise the data in one place ( i30 76K, 2012 UK 1.6CRDi BLue Active - GD ). Issues below all started at once,  6 weeks ago now.

Symptoms

Car starts fine - everytime - every ~20 days it does feel a bit lumpy on tickover for a short while, been like this for a ~ year
No lights on at start or driving ( < 50 mph )
ISG stopped working
CC not working - switches on and dash light, but can never set a speed
Clutch down when moving - RPM will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) and goto 1K if left, no less. This happens even with no ESC light on ie from start
50 mph ESC light comes on ( whatever gear )

Notes

There are no other lights, no other symptoms, car drives fine in all cases other than bad/jolty gear change because the revs drop so much with clutch down
Brake lights are fine
ABS working when I stamp on the brakes
ESC light flashes when I force a wheel spin ( when light is on )
Car ONLY starts with clutch down
ECU reset ( battery disconnect ) no difference
No ODBII codes pending or set ( even with ESC light on )
My OBDII run time showed throttle at 12% and never moving - I don't believe the PID is right as revs never hunt and fluctuate on drive cycle
Wheels off, every disc/pad seated OK, plenty of wear, pulled wheels sensors, all cleaned, cables look good

Secondary Notes

One wheel has a puncture repair ( 2 years ago ), can see rubber 'stool' in the tread
Rear tyres nearing limiters, fronts quite new.
Tyre pressures all good
Great idea Charlie! :goodjob:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 23, 2017, 21:59:02
I have the feeling that you have a corrupted programme because you also cannot set CC.  But, the problem is also centred around the ISG and clutch switch .
Did you disconnect it? If not, time to get your hands dirty .  :scared:
You donít have to start the car first, ignition lock switch is a separate one on the side, signal switch is the top one.
Here is an explanation of its function translated from Korenglish: :Pout:
 Normally, when the clutch pedal is depressed during driving, engine load changes from loaded to none loaded condition. However, ECM regards vehicle to be loaded because the VSS signal is still inputted to it. Therefore, ECM controls a none loaded engine with a condition suitable for loaded engine.
Accordingly, optimum fuel injection control is not performed then; the RPM becomes unstable and smoke is produced.
However, the clutch switch transmits the clutch operating state to ECM. This signal enables the ECM to cope with instant change of load condition. The clutch switch signal is also used to detect engaged gear with vehicle speed and engine speed..
Check clutch switch pull-up voltage
(1)
IG KEY "OFF", ENGINE "OFF".
(2)
Disconnect clutch switch connector.
(3)
IG KEY "ON". 
(4)
Measure the voltage between signal terminal of clutch switch harness connector and chassis ground.
Specification : 11.5V ~ 13.0V
Check open in clutch switch signal circuit
(1)
IG KEY "OFF", ENGINE "OFF". 
(2)
Disconnect clutch switch connector and ECM connector. 
(3)
Check continuity between signal terminal of clutch switch harness connector and ECM harness connector.
Specification : Continuity ( below 1.0Ω )
ground Circuit inspection
1.
IG KEY "OFF", ENGINE "OFF".
2.
Disconnect clutch switch connector.
3.
Check continuity between clutch switch connector terminal 1 and chassis ground.
Specification : Continuity ( below 1.0Ω )
Component Inspection
1.
Remove the clutch switch.
2.
Push the clutch switch shaft inward to make sure that continuity is cut off.

Good Luck.

I should add that the above switch has two contacts. I don't have ISG data, so you may find a 2nd set of contacts. Also a bit vague on whether or not , on an i30, you can deactivate this insidious ISG. Pulling the plug may be a pleasurable experience.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 24, 2017, 06:07:38
Thanks again

Switch still suggests a logical output - so battling why if I can ONLY start with clutch down - ie the on/off must be working. I'll try disconnecting and see what diff it makes. And try in the KIa to see if I can replicate the symptons

Your instructions are so tricky without the full resources - what/where is the ECM harness connector ? I look to just order a switch ( they are cheap ) but 11 different flavours exist for this year/model alone

I did find this - closest I have ever got to my list of issues anywhere on the net, most don't list the other stuff thats wrong when they post as its not explored - but this seems spot on, although does not say if started without clutch.

 :link: C/C, ESC, CD player, Auto Stop issues *SOLVED* (https://www.i30ownersclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=29957.msg318405#msg318405)

I am steering now back to Hyundai fault finding - I would hope that on a test drive with all the sensor input showing, that will pin down the rouge reading. I all my years of working on cars this is so bloody frustrating - you really have to have the source code of the s/w in the car to really know. I've had pretty shakey marques in the past including new age MGs/Alfa's etc and although its a painful search but you find a similar instance on the net or easy way to home done the issues based on the facts of whats happening with the ODBII data and pulling stuff around. No workshop guides/downloads/deep routed invests to go on here from the net ...

Driving me nuts , the car makes are locking us into these costly dependencies, even Kia told me the s/w is different to Hyundai and cannot help - I think thats false, its the front end into it that forces it to be different, the code will be shared. Elec cars will be worse .....
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 24, 2017, 06:54:04
Yep, I am folding - even trying to prise out the clutch switch is too hard. Upside down trying to squeeze the grommet together to get out the connector out of its holder, with space for just 1 finger, not even long nose pliers can help - so frustrating. I noted the micro switch inside seems very healthy, hear it clicking. 2 wires in, just does not feel right this fto be the issue, the switch is working, and won't start without it down.

I noted the battery is 12.3 V, my Kia is 12.6V, my fully charged spare battery is 12.7V. Its 5 years old and recently the wife took for small journeys in last 3 months for first time in its life. Cannot think how thats related to ESC light though and does that difference really matter enough.

Might charge overnight  - if that does not work I give up
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: sundiz on September 24, 2017, 08:59:03
Cannot think how thats related to ESC light though and does that difference really matter enough.

When the voltage drops in modern cars, they start to shut down different modules to save electricity for the motor. Usually ABS or ESP are the first ones to turn off. Charge the battery over night and measure the battery voltage again. With and without the motor running. 12,3V indicates that the battery is in bad condition. Full battery should be ~12,8V and when engine is running the charge voltage should be ~14V.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 24, 2017, 23:19:43
Switch still suggests a logical output - so battling why if I can ONLY start with clutch down - ie the on/off must be working. I'll try disconnecting and see what diff it makes.
-

as said previously , there are two switches.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 24, 2017, 23:21:53
Yep, I am folding -
  :faint: wish I Knew that last week
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 25, 2017, 11:50:20
Me too :(

Anyway, had a second wind after you reminded me about the other switch - I was put off by the deep invest of switch 1 which seemed OK to me by symptom. I managed to find the other from that very tiny gif and pulled the connector - it was quite oily on and inside, which is strange for that area of the engine

Took for a drive disconnected and no change - so car performs the same with all those symptoms. Cleaned up connection best I could ( it was very tight ) with cotton bud and WD40 spray aiming- took for spin, hoping, and still issues. It might be the short stretch of road but this time could go over 50, but was first touch of brake afterwards where it came on.  I 'think' or maybe just too close to 50 to not notice

Anyway, I 'think' this is good news and must tell something. The bad news is the sensor is connected straight into the loom, so if the connector is duff due to contamination it looks tricky, if the sensor itself is bad - I guess not so bad as looks like with the air box removed I can get to it

...OR maybe unrelated and that sensor is ignored if something else is wrong ?

What do you think ?

Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 25, 2017, 17:21:23
My head hurts now!
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 25, 2017, 17:22:34
Seems some confusion over switches. The two I referred to are on the clutch pedal frame. One on top & one on the side.
The continuity and  voltage measurements should be taken cross the top switch pins 1&2 and or their connectors.
The last  link you have found increases my suspicion about it. Its function needs to be checked. You don't need to know ECU connections to do this . KISS theory.

Removal of the plug can be awkward irrespective of personal strength.
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. :goodjob2:
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9y0TUh.jpg)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 25, 2017, 17:27:03
My head hurts now!

 :D Your has just started ? You are lucky. Gaz exits left in search of valium.  :crazy2:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: John B on September 25, 2017, 20:11:42
@nzenigma  Top marks for sticking at this and helping charlie8 in what is one of those tricky little problems, especially in the difficult situation of trying to solve it through post communication. Good on you. :goodjob2:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 25, 2017, 22:47:02
Thanks JB, appreciate your encouragement. Its a bit frustrating because ISG is foreign to me but I know we are sniffing around the correct components to find the fault. Cheers G.  :)
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: mickd on September 26, 2017, 03:10:14
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. 

Looks more like a tool of torture   :eek:   :lol:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 26, 2017, 03:44:10
Well I think we might have it :)

Sorry, if I missed it, as I cannot see any ref to 2 clutch switches in the drivers bay, until you just said - but glad you did

Indeed buried behind lots of other stuff I can see the clutch UP switch and on inspection - there is no plunger or indeed if I push onto it nothing is going in/out - so either wedged in or fallen out as there is a dot in the middle. Presuming that its a similar switch and its not some complex elec pressure sensor

So the car never thinks its got into gear

One thing that hit me this morning - the ECO change up indicator which lists the gear too, is not working, just did not miss it I guess, until I thought I have not see that for while - because it does not think it got in or out of first gear !

This suggests why at 50 mph it prob thinks the car is about to enter doom as its either coasting at that speed in neutral or your engine is about to blow in 1st gear

Is my logic right nzenigma do you think and time to order the part ?
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 26, 2017, 14:43:20
Thats definitely it - just checked on the Kia- there is a black plunger sticking out. On the i30 its wedged in flat ie plunger stuck in. tried prodding it, but its well and truely stuck - so I guess the spring inside is minced

I'll hold the celebrations until I've fitted the part - but everything tallies from data in this thread. Now just to order

Thanks nzenigma for your patience - I could have done this without your insight, we went around the houses a bit, but think you've nailed it for me
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 26, 2017, 16:13:53
@charlie8  Thanks. Hey that's brilliant news mate. However, I will put off the celebration until we get the word that the car is definitely cured.  :goodjob2:
It may be worth getting a cheap pair of pliers and making a wimp aid. You will note that the prongs push in the 'button' or clip on the side of a connector. Also helps if as you do this, you push the connector inward, then pull it out and off.
Cheers G.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 26, 2017, 16:23:19
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. CASH!!

Looks more like a tool of torture   :eek:   :lol:

@mickd   :D Yes it has many entertaining uses around the home, especially during school holidays.  :evil:
I still have my small tool box (we called them the abortion box) from past days on the road and in the air. It has an array of strangely bent and thinly ground down spanners etc that I made for awkward jobs.
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 26, 2017, 16:27:54
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. CASH!!

Looks more like a tool of torture   :eek:   :lol:

@mickd   :D Yes it has many entertaining uses around the home, especially during school holidays.  :evil:
I still have my small tool box (we called them the abortion box) from past days on the road and in the air. It has an array of strangely bent and thinly ground down spanners etc that I made for awkward jobs.

Did someone say School Holidays!  :sweating: With 16 and a half step-grandkids I'm really looking forward to the  next two weeks..  :crazy1:

I think I'll get my hat and coat..  :Prayer:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 26, 2017, 17:40:18
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. CASH!!

Looks more like a tool of torture   :eek:   :lol:

@mickd   :D Yes it has many entertaining uses around the home, especially during school holidays.  :evil:
I still have my small tool box (we called them the abortion box) from past days on the road and in the air. It has an array of strangely bent and thinly ground down spanners etc that I made for awkward jobs.

Did someone say School Holidays!  :sweating: With 16 and a half step-grandkids I'm really looking forward to the  next two weeks..  :crazy1:

I think I'll get my hat and coat..  :Prayer:

Mate!! :spitty: I was going to offer you my tool box, but seems its too late.
  :disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp: :disapp:
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: eye30 on September 26, 2017, 17:46:04
This is my patented 'wimp helper'. Selling world wide for A$60 plus freight. CASH!!

Looks more like a tool of torture   :eek:   

@mickd   :D Yes it has many entertaining uses around the home, especially during school holidays.  :evil:
I still have my small tool box (we called them the abortion box) from past days on the road and in the air. It has an array of strangely bent and thinly ground down spanners etc that I made for awkward jobs.

Did someone say School Holidays!  :sweating: With 16 and a half step-grandkids I'm really looking forward to the  next two weeks..  :crazy1:

I think I'll get my hat and coat..  :Prayer:
Get on your bike....
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 26, 2017, 17:58:04
Don't worry, I have have lots of things planned and none of them are within 5kms of home!  :crazy1:

I did take the 10 year old daughter of my Step daughter with me to the supermarket for a ride last night. She is probably my favourite.  :goodjob:

I think because I have two daughters I relate to girls better. They don't break stuff and she doesn't ask for stuff all the time like her Brothers do..
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 30, 2017, 06:58:34
SOLVED

Finally got the switch, even  through Hyundai there were 3 switch types for this reg, and had to send pics for me to ID the right one that matched the one I had. Anyway picked up this morning, fitted ( and boy was that fiddly, frustrating, finger tip threading, feet pushing on the roof, had to put string around pedal to hold down  ) but its in and straight away EVERYTHING below is back and working.

The part was labelled ignition switch, although nothing to do with that, just tells ECU the clutch pedal is up and that fits into the all the s/w algorithms that drive the below.

So all in all, £35 and a massive big up to nzenigma  :goodjob2: :goodjob:. I am not convinced that paying Hyundai to scan the codes ( £96 ) in the submodules would have helped, it would be the real time sensor info they'd need to plot AND be clued up enough to know to look at the pedal up switch state as it would not be registering a fault, just a confusing reading to the ECU. So this could have ballooned into 00's £'s through mis-diag

So for the record, if you see the below happending ( and ONLY the below ) you need a new clutch switch - the lower one that tells when the clutch is up

Car starts fine - everytime - every ~20 days it does feel a bit lumpy on tickover for a short while, been like this for a ~ year
No lights on at start or driving ( < 50 mph )
ISG stopped working
CC not working - switches on and dash light, but can never set a speed
Clutch down when moving - RPM will drop RAPIDLY ( one of the issues and so bad driving experience on gearchange ) and goto 1K if left, no less. This happens even with no ESC light on ie from start
50 mph ESC light comes on ( whatever gear )
The gear change notification on the computer not working for best mpg

Thanks everyone else on this forum to, the suggestions here were many but the inside knowledge of the system is what drove the solution - and that is down to pure good human nature and helpful people

 :happydance:

C
Title: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: charlie8 on September 30, 2017, 07:08:37

(https://image.ibb.co/nbRyVb/P1050502.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jAqgiw)

BTW thats the offender - that black circle is the top of a plunger that should be poking out and spring loaded
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: AlanHo on September 30, 2017, 10:38:05
Great result and congratulations on your perseverance.
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: eye30 on September 30, 2017, 11:39:55
Phew........ sorted........back to enjoying the ride
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on September 30, 2017, 17:27:46
 :brilliant:
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on September 30, 2017, 17:29:44
SOLVED...
Thanks everyone else on this forum to, the suggestions here were many but the inside knowledge of the system is what drove the solution - and that is down to pure good human nature and helpful people  :happydance: C

@charlie8 . Hi Charlie, when you described the state of the switch (broken plunger) I knew we had it licked.  :happydance:
A huge relief given the time we all have put in to this form of 'distance learning'; while we also applied some lateral thinking to solve a new problem.

I agree, you treated the quote to scan codes with suitable scepticism and saved yourself £96 plus ££££.  I often wish others had that skill.

Charlie my personal thanks for your own "good human nature" in returning to tell us that the problem is solved.
Now go enjoy that i30  :) :goodjob2: Gary
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: John B on September 30, 2017, 19:00:45
Tricky problem with a good result. Bet you and Gary feel great now you have had a win.  :goodjob2:
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: mickd on October 01, 2017, 01:20:20
Righto gents,
Time to shout yourselves a beer and say quitely to your yourself  - F##K I'M GOOD.

 :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :goodjob2:   :goodjob:
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: Dazzler on October 01, 2017, 02:11:10
Righto gents,
Time to shout yourselves a beer and say quitely to your yourself  - F##K I'M GOOD.

 :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :goodjob2:   :goodjob:

 :rofl: :victory:
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on October 01, 2017, 02:36:09
Righto gents,
Time to shout yourselves a beer and say quitely to your yourself  - F##K I'M GOOD.

 :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :goodjob2:   :goodjob:

 :rofl: :victory:

  :lol: That kids got a way with words  :goodjob2: :D
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: mickd on October 01, 2017, 03:59:23
Righto gents,
Time to shout yourselves a beer and say quitely to your yourself  - F##K I'M GOOD.

 :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :happydance:  :goodjob2:   :goodjob:

 :rofl: :victory:

  :lol: That kids got a way with words  :goodjob2: :D

"that kid " - I like that!  👍
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: szwak on October 15, 2017, 17:05:57
Hi to all I would like to say that I have had problem with clutch switch symptoms the same but do not have CC and stop start engine so I bought a new one with 57 pounds for it I write curious what have happend with old one so decided to take old one in pieces it was easy and it occurred that spring was broken do before you make a call to dealer try to fix it on your own you need 35mm long and 3mm diameter spring if that was not a spring then you need a call to dealer
Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: WendyES on August 24, 2018, 08:37:52
Just wanted to add to this thread that I've had EXACTLY the same car faults as Charlie8, in my 2012 1.6 CRDi. Courtesy of the expert information, I've replaced the top clutch switch, and all the faults have gone. My switch had a different failure mode though, the plunger was still working, but the internal switch had failed, it wasn't breaking continuity. A multimeter was the only way to find this problem. Thanks nzenigma for including all the necessary info earlier in the thread.

Title: Re: SOLVED: ESC light on at 50 mph - every time - help needed
Post by: nzenigma on August 24, 2018, 17:32:00
@WendyES . We appreciate your added input and your thanks. Enjoy that car  :D