Author Topic: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no  (Read 15324 times)

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #60 : January 04, 2013, 19:11:53 »
Nice description.  :goodjob:
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #61 : January 04, 2013, 19:17:51 »
I thought it was more a case of...you're wasting fuel letting it sit there warming up, so why not let it warm up while actually going somewhere?  :undecided:

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #62 : January 05, 2013, 02:14:14 »
here's my take on things

i have done and will continue to idle EVERY engine i start to warm it up, heres why

does not apply so much to a petrol but more so diesel. almost all diesels have forged pistons with cast-iron liners. these forged slugs expand quicker than the cast bore when heated so you run the risk of a piston crown grabbing a liner and scoring it. this problem is exacerbated by the fact that in a direct injection engine (ie.- a diesel) the injector is spraying directly in the pre-combustion chamber in the piston crown therefore most of the heat from the power-stroke is absorbed by the piston and not the bore wich makes our problem from earlier with the forged slugs and cast liners worse. i have personally seen/rebuilt 14 2.8d toyota hilux engines because they have not been warmed up before someone gives them the berries. they pick up on bores 1 and 2 and then they get the death rattles (piston slap) and ever increasing blow by as the rings flog themselves and the ring lands into oblivion.

on the other hand if you let the engine idle for 1 to 1  and a half minutes before driving away this gives a bit of time for heat transfer between pistons to bores and lets everything expand evenly or closer to even.

the arguement about wasting fuel is a bit odd, do you really think your i30 will chew that much fuel at idle for 1 minute that it is gonna blow your budget? i get a bit of flack for letting my car idle down for a minute on the turbo timer, my arguement is 10 cents of diesel now is cheaper than a $800 turbo in 6 months. same goes for idlling to warm up, 10 to 15 cents worth of diesel vs $2.5 - $3k (probably more) engine?

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #63 : January 05, 2013, 02:23:40 »
OK, what you say makes a lot of sense and it is information that would not be commonly known. I still have the petrol engine mentality I suppose and it is information like this that can help in the future. I wonder though, why is it not mentioned in the handbook and especially where temperatures are commonly below 0 Deg  C.  :undecided:

Thanks for sharing. :goodjob2:
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #64 : January 05, 2013, 02:26:03 »
OK, what you say makes a lot of sense and it is information that would not be commonly known. I still have the petrol engine mentality I suppose and it is information like this that can help in the future. I wonder though, why is it not mentioned in the handbook and especially where temperatures are commonly below 0 Deg  C.  :undecided:

Thanks for sharing. :goodjob2:

dunno, maybe to keep it simple and stop confusion? or maybe the emmisions nazi's frown upon a manufacturer advising an owner to burn fuel for no apparent reason?

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #65 : January 05, 2013, 02:31:17 »
Yes, this info is all new to me. I was thinking about it though and while I said (and certainly intend to) that I drive straight off, in reality I guess there is probably more like 30-60 seconds before I do.
I was meaning I don't sit and idle the engine for five minutes to warm it up.
I generally start the engine, then connect my phone to the charger, put my other keys in the storage place, put my seatbelt on, etc etc and then go.
But it wouldn't be one to one a half minutes. More like half to one minute.
But I always idle down after a run as in my last car.
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #66 : January 05, 2013, 05:31:22 »
the arguement about wasting fuel is a bit odd, do you really think your i30 will chew that much fuel at idle for 1 minute that it is gonna blow your budget?

I'm just the messenger, Kom.... :whistler:

I was just repeating one of the arguments I'd heard for not warming an engine up before driving off.

Me, I'm quite happy to let the engine warm up a bit whether it's diesel or petrol......

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #67 : January 05, 2013, 05:36:46 »
I'm still more in line with DB08 with my cars including the CRDi .. Start her up get comfy and get the belt on check the mirrors etc.. then slowly drive away (bit like our Women eh Dave :snigger:)
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #68 : January 05, 2013, 05:38:42 »
I'm still more in line with DB08 with my cars including the CRDi .. Start her up get comfy and get the belt on check the mirrors etc.. then slowly drive away (bit like our Women eh Dave :snigger:)

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #69 : January 07, 2013, 05:47:33 »
Getting back to the question of demisting, I'm confused. Having lived for some years in a country where there is ice and snow for half the year we solved the issue on the outside with one of these:



The cost for this hi tech device, $1.99 from Canadian Tyre, about $200-00 if it were available here probably. I have one in the shed and use it for chasing spiders.

The windscreen washers had some sort of deicing component to them as well. To demist the inside we just turned the AC on. Since it was anywhere around -20 or less in the depths of winter there's no issue with "cold" air because your wearing clothing appropriate for the weather. Eventually the car heats up because you know, its cold outside.

Given that experience I'm pretty sure that if you turn the demister on with the AC the screen will clear in seconds, probably while you warm up the engine. ;) In the models with climate control there's even a button that takes care of it.

As to how long to idle the car to avoid catastrophic engine failure, the manual states the engine needs only 10-15 seconds idle before driving off with a slightly longer idle period in very cold conditions. 

The top pic shows the stick in action, the bottom one is about a minute out of my driveway with the demister and AC on and that's all. Engine wouldn't be even slightly warmed up by then. Not the current chariot just to be clear but just making the point that its probably prudent to idle the car for as long as it takes to have visibility and strap yourself in, maybe 30 seconds to a minute max.




« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 05:57:08 by keith_h » »
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #70 : January 08, 2013, 06:53:43 »
The little guy with the stick in the picture above is today the driver of a black GD i30 diesel so this pic was taken some time ago.
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #71 : January 08, 2013, 06:56:20 »
The little guy with the stick in the picture above is today the driver of a black GD i30 diesel so this pic was taken some time ago.

Way too young to drive, even if it was taken last year.  :)
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #72 : January 13, 2013, 21:35:05 »
Quote

Me 2

Picture yourself outside on a frosty morning. (never mind how or why you're there.) :mrgreen:

To warm up most effectively, would you rather stand still, or gently move about, brisk walking etc. It's the same for a motor. Our cars are 1300kg, so to get the car rolling requires gentle engine effort, which in turn, provides more internal engine heat due to imposed load. Natuarally, the screen needs to be clear and safe.

That is the worst analogy i have heard....sorry.   Think of this- a cold engine warming up a bit slower and more evenly with such little load on its bearings, pistons, cylinders etc- versus, a cold engine, with a load put on it and increased combustion temps causing uneven warming and therefore uneven expansion of parts (yes they are metal and will expand significantly and also varied depending on the alloy and how much heat its receiving.   Then think of your turbo, its impellers/housing and seals etc when they are cold and then get given a heap of hot exhaust gas.........I know which i'd prefer if i was an engine.........

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #73 : January 14, 2013, 02:49:16 »
You do your thing, I'll do mine. :groan:
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #74 : April 15, 2013, 21:43:45 »
Quote

Me 2

Picture yourself outside on a frosty morning. (never mind how or why you're there.) :mrgreen:

To warm up most effectively, would you rather stand still, or gently move about, brisk walking etc. It's the same for a motor. Our cars are 1300kg, so to get the car rolling requires gentle engine effort, which in turn, provides more internal engine heat due to imposed load. Natuarally, the screen needs to be clear and safe.

That is the worst analogy i have heard....sorry.   Think of this- a cold engine warming up a bit slower and more evenly with such little load on its bearings, pistons, cylinders etc- versus, a cold engine, with a load put on it and increased combustion temps causing uneven warming and therefore uneven expansion of parts (yes they are metal and will expand significantly and also varied depending on the alloy and how much heat its receiving.   Then think of your turbo, its impellers/housing and seals etc when they are cold and then get given a heap of hot exhaust gas.........I know which i'd prefer if i was an engine.........

I disagree with your disagreement, these devices are ruggedly constructed. Here is why your theory is incorrect.




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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #75 : April 15, 2013, 23:53:59 »
Okay, I'm confused.... :undecided:

What are you trying to prove or disprove here, Phil?
Sorry, brain's a bit foggy today, don't think I gave it a chance to warm up....  :head_butt:

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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #76 : April 16, 2013, 00:14:00 »
I'm not an advocate for idling motors unnecessarily, I prefer to drive at low speed through back streets, after a 30 second warm up to check gauges and ensure a clear path, my analogy of gentle work was rejected, so when I came across this vid I thought it worth posting.

The turbine blades go from -28 Deg C to + 700 Deg C in a very short space of time and they still manage to survive. A turbo should also be able to be warmed gently, with no adverse effects IMO.
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Re: Diesel engine idle on cold frosty mornings - yes or no
« Reply #77 : April 16, 2013, 00:31:52 »
Okay....I think :eek: