Author Topic: Anti stall logic?  (Read 12525 times)

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  • Pip

Anti stall logic?
« November 12, 2008, 03:02:59 »
Hi All,
I'm starting a new thread to address the particular problem whereby the ECU appears to feed in extra juice whenever the revs get close to idle.

I've read other threads which may be related but not as specific.

If for instance I allow it to slow on the overrun in second gear (say) without using any pedal it slows normally to the point where the engine is about to complain at about 1000 revs but then it suddenly speeds up quite noticeably and in fact if I don't declutch it will happily continue to drive on at a surprising rate, even up a significant gradient.

What's this about?

Pip



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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #1 : November 12, 2008, 05:27:31 »
its pretty much a feature to stop stalling - dont know if thats official or not. It's great in the diesel, as you can leave your driveway in the morning , and go into second gear without touching the throttle at all! :D

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    Penrith
Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #2 : November 12, 2008, 05:27:46 »
Most cars have this these days, however due to the torque of our car it is quite more noticable. Heres me pulling off from the side of the road changing up gears until i hit 5th.. never touching the throttle once

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QGUdCriVR4

  • Pip

Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #3 : November 12, 2008, 05:53:15 »
Well, I don't like it!

Am I outa step here?

Pip

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #4 : November 12, 2008, 06:03:29 »
Some of out Petrol i30 cousins have complained of stalling (I'd rather have the anti-stall thanks...)

Some Pulsars and other cars I have driven including the Getz like a bit of a rev at the lights or they can stall (so I like the fact it's almost impossible to stall the CRDi...
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #5 : November 12, 2008, 14:22:45 »
Quote from: "Pip"
Well, I don't like it!

Am I outa step here?

Pip


Like you it caught me by surprise as I expected the revs to die when i take my foot of the gas.

When I complained to the dealer that the car kept moving when I took my foot off the gas they told me it was an anti stall feature.

You get use to it and it a big help when in slow moving traffic.
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #6 : November 12, 2008, 14:29:58 »
Quote from: "eye30"
...When I complained to the dealer that the car kept moving when I took my foot off the gas they told me it was an anti stall feature.

You get use to it and it a big help when in slow moving traffic.

Amen to that brother. I love it.
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #7 : November 12, 2008, 16:23:22 »
Will this 'feature' stop you from rolling back on an incline? I've purchased the vehicle in manual for my wife who has always driven autos. She has been practicing manual in my car for the last couple of months and it'd help greatly if this 'feature' stops rollbacks on 45 degree inclines in shopping centers...

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #8 : November 12, 2008, 16:27:12 »
Quote from: "Tylenol"
Will this 'feature' stop you from rolling back on an incline? ... it'd help greatly if this 'feature' stops rollbacks on 45 degree inclines in shopping centers...
45 degrees.. hmm.. I doubt it. Might need the handbrake there buddy when stationary, plus a wee squeeze on the pedal when ready
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #9 : November 12, 2008, 17:52:30 »
Should be easier than going up a 45 degree incline in an '01 Elantra though, right? And should be almost impossible to stall at least? If its not going to stall then the missus can concentrate less on the clutch control and more on gently accelerating.

I am just trying to get a grasp of what this 'anti stalling' feature is going to do.

Thanks :)

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #10 : November 13, 2008, 09:13:10 »
I would give it a go at 45, i know my car can pull up quite an incline at the carpark at work, buggered if i know how much of an incline tho, ill grab a photo and show you guys, it does it pretty effortlessly also

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #11 : November 13, 2008, 15:34:36 »
i leave the car park at work on a fairly decent angle (not as much as 45 degrees though), and as you cliimb, the ECU boosts power anyway to stop you stalling

  • Pip

Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #12 : November 21, 2008, 00:39:10 »
Had my 1000km service and asked whether there was any "adjustment" possible to the anti-stall as I find that being pushed along at a minimum of 35-40 kays in third is excessive and has caught me out on roundabouts more than once after releasing the brake on the way in only to be accelerated - on zero throttle.  I thought manuals were supposed to allow more control... roundabouts are now always entered in second :-[

Anyway... was told that there was no such thing and that I was just experiencing how diesels work  :o

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #13 : November 21, 2008, 01:30:45 »
I find that being pushed along at a minimum of 35-40 kays in third is excessive and has caught me out on roundabouts more than once after releasing the brake on the way in only to be accelerated - on zero throttle.
So what happens in a car without this function if you do this (in gear, zero throttle, really slow or zero speed)? The engine stalls. Is this what you want? You have to use clutch like in any manual car.
Or am I missing a point here?

  • ouri30

Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #14 : November 21, 2008, 01:56:10 »
Had my 1000km service and asked whether there was any "adjustment" possible to the anti-stall as I find that being pushed along at a minimum of 35-40 kays in third is excessive and has caught me out on roundabouts more than once after releasing the brake on the way in only to be accelerated - on zero throttle. 

I usually drive as much as possible without using the brake.  I let the motor do most of the braking when and where ever possible.  I change down into lower gears so that I am not pushing the brake pedal to control speed but using the throttle, gears and the motor to control speed. I know this method of driving is very conservative, but that is the way I drive.  For me the brake is there to finally pull the car up when required and to be used in emergency braking.  Whenever the engine is used for slowing the vehicle there is zero fuel being used.  This all helps in getting sub 4.7 LPH fuel consumption that I am consistently getting.  Currently I am getting 4.0 LPH.

Personally I like the way the throttle works on the CRDi.  Yes, it takes a little getting used to, but no more than any of the previously owned diesels I have had. Each one has been unique. I think the i30 CRDi is a gem.  Unlike many who have been critical of such things as flat spots, turbo lag, anti-stall etc, I have just adjusted my driving technique to get the best results.  It hasn't taken a lot of effort and Ilove the whole package.

Bob

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #15 : November 21, 2008, 01:56:45 »
I think Pip is not used to driving a Common Rail Diesel Turbo that has oodles of torque down low.  :)

By the way Pip, this is how most of us drive in our CRDi i30's. No throttle needed for most of the time.

If you are finding there is too much torque down low, pulling you along at very low RPM's, then it's time to change to the next gear, or push the clutch in.

A petrol engined vehicle, like what has been mentioned before, would just stall in the same situation.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #16 : November 21, 2008, 03:35:25 »
All diesels have this feature - in older diesels its called a governor.  There are two basic types of mechanical governors, variable speed and two-speed, with most light diesels have variable speed.  Using rotating counterweights against a spring, your foot controls the spring tension, and the weights are driven by engine speed.  As the engine goes below the 'set' RPM, the spring starts pulling the injection pump into 'fuel'  Have a look at this link under "fuel delivery" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine  Think of a generator, which is a basic variable speed governor locked at a certain speed to attain the correct frequency (say 1500RPM for 50Hz output).  With no load plugged into the generator, the engine needs bugger-all fuel to keep it at 1500rpm, so the fuel output of the injectors is quite small.  Switch on a light, the engine slows slightly as there is more load on the generator, and the governor feeds in more fuel to keep it at 1500rpm.  Turn on a microwave, the governor needs to put in a lot more fuel to keep it at 1500RPM.  Over load the generator, the revs dip below 1500rpm, and the generator fails to output the correct power.  The exact same thing is happening when you slow down to ~1000RPM with your foot off the accelerator.  The 'governor' (an ECU controlled virtual governor in this case) senses the engine needs more fuel to keep at the speed your foot is requesting, in this case approx 1000RPM with your foot completely off the throttle.  Hope this makes sense.  There is no way you can take this feature out, its part of the diesel design.  I think its great personally.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #17 : November 21, 2008, 13:16:39 »
I drive with a light right foot and "read" the road as for braking etc. using brakes sparingly

This seems to be an issue with most drivers who seem to drive on their brakes and because yours are not flashing on/off by the second they are right up your backside, bobing up and down like a tormented spring. (I was going to say kangaroo but might offend my OZ friends).

If I have a s*d behind me trying to sit in my boot I know I have the power to leave them standing.

When I need acceleration I find that the engine responds very postively with minimual lag and the expresion on the face of the driver behind when accelerate way in unbelievable.
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #18 : November 21, 2008, 16:33:34 »

If I have a s*d behind me trying to sit in my boot I know I have the power to leave them standing.

When I need acceleration I find that the engine responds very postively with minimual lag and the expresion on the face of the driver behind when accelerate way in unbelievable.

Hi Eye,

I love doing that too.. especially up hills  :D
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #19 : November 21, 2008, 17:03:58 »

If I have a s*d behind me trying to sit in my boot I know I have the power to leave them standing.

When I need acceleration I find that the engine responds very postively with minimual lag and the expresion on the face of the driver behind when accelerate way in unbelievable.

Hi Eye,

I love doing that too.. especially up hills  :D

Me too!
 ;D

Had this w@nker yesterday sitting in the outside lane (red p's) doing 50 in a 70 zone.
So decided to go up the inside (there was another slow car in the inside lan), plenty of room to get round, so what does he do, plants his foot and sits next to me. We come to the hill and I find a neat little gap to get through and I end up overtaking him. Meanwhile I'm doing 80 in a 70 zone and hes sitting right up my arse, so I dropped it back to 4th put my foot down and left him at the bottom of the hill. Should have heard his doof doof commodore trying to keep up...hehe


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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #20 : November 21, 2008, 17:12:06 »
Yer a naught man cam  ;D but I like you  :police:
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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #21 : November 23, 2008, 03:36:29 »
Will this 'feature' stop you from rolling back on an incline? I've purchased the vehicle in manual for my wife who has always driven autos. She has been practicing manual in my car for the last couple of months and it'd help greatly if this 'feature' stops rollbacks on 45 degree inclines in shopping centers...

yes it will, tell your wife to pull on the handbrake,let clutch out slowly with no throtle till she feels car try to move only handbrake holding it back, then just let handbrake off and easy clutch all the way out, car will just keep moving slow.
i love the feature too its like driving a large diesel truck in trafic.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #22 : November 23, 2008, 17:57:43 »
Thanks for all the responses!

I've *let* the wife drive her car now :)

I hit the 1000km mark on the weekend and have now handed over the keys... it is her car after all.

I am back to driving my '01 Elantra... which now feels like an absolute dog to drive after driving the i30 for a week ;(

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #23 : November 23, 2008, 18:56:30 »
Thanks for all the responses!

I've *let* the wife drive her car now :)


Hehe..
I can just imagine you clinging onto the keys while your wife grabs them off you
:lol: :lol:

I've only got 1500kms up.
I got home from a 30min trip last night and I didn't feel like getting out.
Often when I get to work I park, turn the engine off and just sit and relax.
:P

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #24 : November 23, 2008, 20:38:54 »
I'm thinking I will have to buy another as I cannot drive my Elantra anymore :(

Wife apparently isn't enjoying manual though! Anyone else here taught their spouses to drive manual? How long does it take to learn? I can't remember how long it took me to learn, I've only ever driven manual cars.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #25 : November 23, 2008, 21:15:40 »
I'm thinking I will have to buy another as I cannot drive my Elantra anymore :(

Wife apparently isn't enjoying manual though! Anyone else here taught their spouses to drive manual? How long does it take to learn? I can't remember how long it took me to learn, I've only ever driven manual cars.

Anytime I get out of my car and into one of the work cars (08 Commodore SV6, Mazda 6, 08 Commodore Wagon, Nissan Xtrail) it just never feels right...lol

The brakes are the biggest thing I notice especially with the holdens...they all seem to be extremely spongy.
Then its the handling, and ofcourse the torque
:lol:

I dont know how your wife can't enjoy driving manual...hehe!
What is she having probs with? Clutchwork? Timing?

I think the i30 manual is a pretty easy car to drive. Compared to say the SV6 or GT sport golf.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #26 : November 23, 2008, 21:54:46 »
Not 100% sure what she is not liking about it but she is begging me to make sure the hire car we get tomorrow whilst her i30 is in for a service is an auto!

I guess I will find out when I get home and let you all know ;)

I must say, it is the easiest manual to drive that i've ever driven bar none. Especially considering it has the fly by wire clutch, almost impossible to stall I guess.

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #27 : November 24, 2008, 22:35:41 »
Ugh, she thought that when I said "All you have to do is take your foot off and it will go" meant "Put the car into third gear and dump the clutch and it will go".

Apparently she stalled it three times in a row within a minute of taking off.... *sigh*

That won't have ruined my engine too much will it?

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Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #28 : November 24, 2008, 23:01:39 »
Ugh, she thought that when I said "All you have to do is take your foot off and it will go" meant "Put the car into third gear and dump the clutch and it will go".

Apparently she stalled it three times in a row within a minute of taking off.... *sigh*

That won't have ruined my engine too much will it?

 :rolleyes:
Has she driven a manual much before?

I dont think it would have done any harm. Maybe you should take her on a few driving lessons in a paddock somewhere just to get used to it. The i30 really isn't a hard car to drive though!
 :)

  • Oggie

Re: Anti stall logic?
« Reply #29 : November 24, 2008, 23:40:25 »
Don't you Sydney guys have a different license category for manual or automatic? In W.A. you have to pass your licence in a manual car to legally drive a manual car (otherwise, you can only drive an automatic). It sounds as though she has never driven a manual car?

 


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