[Doggie 1]

If legislation was passed in Australia that all motorcycles imported into the country were required to have provision for the fitting of a standard motorcycle registration plate or sticker, trust me, the manufacturers would have it solved in an instant.
There is no way they would miss out on such massive sales revenue because of such a minor issue.

[rustynutz]

I'm sure there's no way we'd get the variety of motorcycles offered now if that was the case though... 

Do you really think they are gonna go to the cost and effort of new molds for fairings etc for such a small market as ours?

I doubt it very much...

[Doggie 1]

Stickers Rusty, stickers. 

The police bikes have stickers for front plates.

Think a bit laterally.

I know you don't want them, but it is possible to do.

[rustynutz]

Way ahead of you, Dave... 
These only work on bikes with fairlngs for a start. And the fairing would have to have a fairly flat upright section to put the sticker on for a camera to be able to read it, surely? 

This is the major sticking point..lol. There are so many different bikes with different shaped fairings and of course there are many bikes without fairings at all.... 

[rustynutz]

Oh, and I wouldn't mind betting these stickers didn't comply with all the specs required of number plates....

[Dazzler]

I thought you said in post #56 ...

Anyhow, I've had enough....feel free to think what you like.
You and me both know the Government will do what THEY want to do regardless.... 

 

[rustynutz]

Yep, Daz...I have had enough...

Trouble is, others haven't so I feel it's my duty to continue.... 

[rustynutz]

If there was someone else to continue for me, I'd let them... but it would seem it's just me against the world...

Not that that's surprising since we are on a CAR forum.....

[Doggie 1]

Rusty, we are not against you!!!! 
Many of us "car" people like bikes too.
But maybe we just have a different opinion.
Between steel plates, aluminium plates, polycarbonate plates, and stickers, I would be amazed if all bikes couldn't be accommodated.
It is just a matter of will. Is it what we really want?

[rustynutz]

These sorts of brackets etc have been considered, Dave...

Apparently manufacturers/dealers have come out and said that fitting these would void warranties...

At the end of the day, surely it would be so much easier to leave things how they are and just upgrade the speed cameras?

I'm really not against the hoons getting nabbed you know...

[Doggie 1]

I take your point, but that is a cop out on the part of the manufacturers really.

If they want to sell their products in Australia then they need to comply with whatever the laws are at the time.

If legislation is passed to say front plates are required, trust me (I used to work for the government  ), they would very quickly find a way because they don't want to loose market share or profits.

Not your problem, mate, or mine. It is their's.

[rustynutz]

But it's gonna be the motorcycle buyer that wears the extra costs....

Just one more thing to discourage people from riding, Dave....which is, after all, what our bureaucrats ultimately want.

'Tis the easiest way to reduce the motorcycle road toll........

[FatBoy]

Next thing they'll want is to register push bikes. After all, registering cars stops people breaking the rules!!

FatBoy (helping people open cans of worms since 2011)

[Dazzler]

Next thing they'll want is to register push bikes. After all, registering cars stops people breaking the rules!!

FatBoy (helping people open cans of worms since 2011)

 

[rustynutz]

Get it right, Jamie, it's number plates that stop all that! 

[Aussie Keith]

then surely they can make plastic ones that fit different size bikes...just like they have done to cars.......

You're forgetting that if front plates were bought in then we'd be out of line with other countries. Do you really believe bike manufacturers are gonna build a different front on a motorcycle just for our miniscule market?

Yes if the adr's mandated. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell them here.

[rustynutz]

Be easier for them to just not bother with many of the models....
Our market is nothing compared to many other countries.

All this because our bureaucrats can't update a few cameras. It would be laughable if the ramifications weren't so serious.....

But of course this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue....

[rustynutz]

Here are some more interesting links:

http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01returnid=69

http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=victorian-road-safety-strategy-2013-2022

http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?page=is-it-unfair-that-motorcycles-don-t-have-front-number-plates

http://www.mravic.org.au/forum/modules/docmanager/get_file.php?curent_file=452&curent_dir=31

[AlanHo]

They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.

Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.

I clearly recall a newspaper article about such a suit - it wasn't this one but similar

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/


This one is less extreme

http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/

[Dazzler]

  Alan (unfortunately that 2nd link wouldn't open for me)

[Surferdude]

They could make it compulsory for riders to have airbags built into their suit.

Imagine a giant ball bouncing around with the rider inside after an accident or the rider morphing into the Michelin man.

I clearly recall a newspaper article about such a suit - it wasn't this one but similar

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2011/December/dec1411-airbag-suits-you-aint-seen-nothing-introducing-safety-sphere/


This one is less extreme

http://www.helite-motorcycle-airbagjackets.co.uk/

I was thinking more about that Top Gear segment where they played soccer with (I think) Fiats.  And a big blow up ball.

[Aussie Keith]

I would suggest some might like to do some research on the subject...

Here are a few links to get you started.

http://victorianmotorcyclecouncil.org.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=22&cntnt01category_id=3&cntnt01returnid=63

http://www.mates.org.au/2009/09/21/front-number-plates-is-the-battle-really-over/

http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/33.html

http://www.swanninsurance.com.au/communications/134

http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/2009/front-facing-number-plates-16724

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news-reviews-advice/pdf/12328.aspx?p=%2Fprint.aspx%3FR%3D12328%26AllModules%3D1%26tabID%3D2207674&fn=12328

Not one shred of evidence in any one of these articles to suggest front facing number plates are in anyway dangerous. Not one. Nor the ones I submitted either. Only heresay "because they got banned years ago". That's not an compelling argument. I looked for any study anywhere that showed a link. I found none, including from technical and engineering bodies who actually study these things. Maybe they consider its not worth worrying about from a safety perspective.

I conclude the lack of evidence does not support the case for safety by omission which seems to be a common theme by those resisting change. No evidence has been proposed supporting the other argument that it does not contribute to safety either.

All this demonstrates is a level of hysteria and paranoia about what exactly? I sense a deeper issue of insecurity by a section of the community. I wonder why? 

[Aussie Keith]

The Vic Roads doco is a good read. Thanks for sharing it.

Here's why the camera solution is not going to work:

"frontal images are currently essential due both to the lack of owner onus and
the requirement to link the person to the vehicle to secure a penalty from the courts
and the current lack of proclaimed owner onus legislation for speed enforcement."

And there's a broader range of issues than just speeding that make identification desirable and tagging the bike owner for an infringement is not going to work for a range of reasons either. No need to debate the point, its detailed in the document.

They consulted widely:

"Consultation included the full mailing list of the ITS Australia9, the members of
Victorian Motorcycle Advisory Council in Victoria, several motorcycle oriented
email lists and a program of direct email and telephone contact with motorcycle user
groups, stakeholders in the motorcycle retail industry, Registration and Licensing
Authorities, motorcycle manufacturers and distributors, professional committees such
as the US National Science Foundation Transportation Research Board Motorcycle
and Moped Committee and motorcycle industry and user groups overseas. A visit was
made to Western Australia, and ten meetings and a weekend round table with user
groups were held in Perth to ensure that WA circumstances and views were fully
taken into account."

They noted the style of numberplate that raised safety concerns was not the flat on the front of the bike type but the vertical on the mudguard variety and I get that. They won't be returning (clearance of mudguards for one thing, aerodynamic stability for another) so no need to be concerned about that old "safety" chestnut. Adhesive decals were considered the best option.

It looks like its going to happen anyway as there are a number of states involved, not just Victoria. I doubt anyone that gets hit by a bike is going to get killed by an adhesive label so I hereby declare anyone citing safety as a reason not to proceed a complete ignoramus. It is true though the old style plates were nasty. And as I said earlier, the law abiding motorcyclist has nothing to worry about. So bring it on, the sooner the better.

[rustynutz]

Not one shred of evidence in any one of these articles to suggest front facing number plates are in anyway dangerous. Not one. Nor the ones I submitted either. Only heresay "because they got banned years ago". That's not an compelling argument. I looked for any study anywhere that showed a link. I found none, including from technical and engineering bodies who actually study these things. Maybe they consider its not worth worrying about from a safety perspective.

I conclude the lack of evidence does not support the case for safety by omission which seems to be a common theme by those resisting change. No evidence has been proposed supporting the other argument that it does not contribute to safety either.

Seems you're concentrating on the safety aspect and little else, Keith....Btw, a pedestrian WAS killed which WAS the catalyst for removing the plates.

Have you not read that VicRoads tried to come up with a workable number plate option over 5 years and $420,000 and failed? Others have been unable to come up with a solution either. So for those that see it as being an easy solution to overcome, perhaps you need to think again. VicRoads hate motorcycles. They would love to have them off the road. If they could have come up with a workable way to fit plates, don't you worry, they would've found one.

I'm really curious though, why is it only Australia that feels the need to bring back front plates?
Are there no other countries that have these hoons? Maybe they used their brains and bought speed cameras suitable for the job? 

Btw, why is that so many car drivers feel that motorcycles SHOULD have front number plates?
Are you sure it's not a jealousy thing? You only have to bring up lane splitting and car drivers start crying out that motorcyclists should wait in line like everyone else...

All this demonstrates is a level of hysteria and paranoia about what exactly? I sense a deeper issue of insecurity by a section of the community. I wonder why? 

Which section of the community, Keith....it could be seen either way...

[Aussie Keith]

As well as the links both you and I posted, I had a good read of the Vic Roads doc. They polled widely. Safety was the reason most widely given by those polled for rejecting the proposal as in "they banned them yonks ago on safety grounds". Fair enough then since apparently "A" pedestrian was killed. That's all the information available I can find although I agree the vertical number plate is a stupid and potentially dangerous thing. The papers of course have picked up on the evil revenue raising aspect but they are in the business of selling papers, not offering an objective view.

Anyway, I challenge the notion that front mounted registration info is a safety issue now. In fact I'd say its a non issue. What was banned actually was the vertical metal plate on the mudguard which isn't legible from the front anyway. The proposal is to use a sticker for ID on the front. Where's the safety issue with a sticker? Paper cut putting it on the bike perhaps. The number of pedestrians likely to be killed by a sticker on a bike? Hard to say since nearly all bikes already have stickers on them of some sort. So probably no more than currently. What was the safety argument again? Feel free to offer a counterpoint.

On cameras that do capture front and back they exist, some jurisdictions have them. VR report states where motorbikes are concerned there are problems in obtaining convictions with these devices hence why they want ID on the front. Fair enough.

[Doggie 1]

WA has front & rear plate cameras.

[rustynutz]

Keith, you're assuming a sticker number plate is the answer. It's not.....
One size does not fit all....
How do you propose to use a sticker on the front of a Harley or any other unfaired bike?
If it was so easy, we'd have them on bikes now....Front number plates have been a hot potato for many years now and at the end of the day no one has been able to come up with a workable solution.

And remember, if plates are bought in, they will have to be fitted to every existing registered bike regardless of age and style.

I'm curious, would you want something bolted on the bonnet of your E Type Jag (if you had one) just because someone thought they could catch a few extra hoons?
I suspect not....

[Doggie 1]

If owners had a choice, as I said previously, of metal plate, polycarbonate plate or adhesive sticker, then they could choose which one they wanted before riding their bike on a road.

I've seen plenty of E-Types with adhesive stickers as front number plates because that is what their owners chose to use.

It's not that hard.

[rustynutz]

Still has to be mounted though, Dave....
Bikes have got much smaller over the years, especially sports bikes compared to back in the 70's.

My example of the E type Jag was in regard to bolting a bracket on to hold a plate. Would owners happily drill holes in the bonnet to mount something that was of dubious value? This is basically equivalent to the sort of thing some bike owners will be having to do.....

The question I need to ask is, why the F*ck is it so important to have a front number plate? Seems it's mostly a question of lost revenue and not much else. The lost revenue can be made up with cameras taking snaps of the rear of vehicles.
Why are people not up in arms over the millions of dollars lost due to cars having defective or defaced plates?
Seems it's much easier to attack a minority group...


Ok, feel free to show me how easy it would be to place a number plate on the front of these bikes....also bearing in mind you can't block air accessing the engine... 

It ain't going to happen guys.  There will be no plates fitted to the frint of motor bikes.  if it was going to happen, it would have.

Just accept it.