[smartie1980]

My i30 went in for it's second MOT today, so just under 4yrs old but with 92k miles.

However the tester had to abandon the test as a rubber section of pipe just above the cylinder split during the test, spraying brake fluid all in the engine bay and on the floor.

I managed to get it to drop it off at the dealer for it to be fixed under warranty (well better be).
The tester and the mechanics were shocked that this has happened to a car of this age.

I am really worried as it must have been pure luck that it didn't fail while I was on the road, but has this happened to anyone else as this could very easily have been fatal, and no-one any the wiser. 

[asathorny]

Wot...............   Not happened to anyone here so far as I know.

That's amazing.

Oh by the way, don't bother with a lottery ticket this week.   

[smartie1980]

Well as I dropped the car off at short notice obviously there was no courtesy car.   

And I've not gone into the rental saga 

[asathorny]

Not having a great day then????    At least the weathers been nice, try to look on the bright side.

 

[eye30]

My first i30 is now 7 yo and not had this issue

[eye30]

you mean the brake cylinder by the wheel or the one up by the window?

If the wheel then the pipe is flexible as it moves with the wheel and suspension.

Was there any evidence of damage which may have been cause from road debris or the movement of the wheel/suspension.

When was the last service?
if recent then i would have expected pipes to have been visually checked

[Dazzler]

  smartie.

Sorry to hear that! You were kind of lucky it happened when it did, but unlucky it happened at all! With things like brake components and stuff I'm sure Hyundai would use the same or similar suppliers as all the other major manufacturers. They use Garret and Bosch etc.. for things like Turbos and Filter systems (not exactly sure which major company they use for brake stuff)

We have been operating this site for 6 years and have over 5000 members in over 60 countries and can't recall this event ever being reported before!

I would suspect it is covered by warranty unless they can establish it has been damaged by an event or service person.

Good luck and if they muck you around remember to stand your ground as the squeaky wheel gets the oil! (be tactful but firm) 

[Phil №❶]

you mean the brake cylinder by the wheel or the one up by the window?

If the wheel then the pipe is flexible as it moves with the wheel and suspension.

Was there any evidence of damage which may have been cause from road debris or the movement of the wheel/suspension.

When was the last service?
if recent then i would have expected pipes to have been visually checked

It sprayed into the engine bay 

[eye30]

you mean the brake cylinder by the wheel or the one up by the window?

If the wheel then the pipe is flexible as it moves with the wheel and suspension.

Was there any evidence of damage which may have been cause from road debris or the movement of the wheel/suspension.

When was the last service?
if recent then i would have expected pipes to have been visually checked

It sprayed into the engine bay 

From top or bottom?

[TheReaper]

  to the forum smartie. Sorry to hear about the troubles with the car. And glad you didn't have that problem while driving. Good luck!!

[The Gonz]

Look at the positive - the MOT did its job. Testing the serviceability of brakes to an expected level of pedal pressure and roller speed means it happened in a workshop and not in an emergency. If not dealing with a warranty, damage or rental concern, you might be dealing with no concerns at all right now - forever!

[Surferdude]

I don't understand how you can have a complete brake failure.
My understanding of split systems/ dual master cylinders  is that you should still retain some braking effect to two wheels.
In the event of a failure, the pedal goes much closer to the floor but a "reasonable" amount of retardation should still be available.

[Phil №❶]

  3 out of 4 wheels should still be active. Unless the reservoir itself cracked. A pic would be good.

[beerman]

Happy birthday Phil...

Don't forget your friend the handbrake......

[eye30]

3 out of 4 wheels should still be active. Unless the reservoir itself cracked. A pic would be good.

Waiting for confirmation whether it is this or cylinder by the wheel.

[smartie1980]

I didn't get any pictures before I dropped it off at the dealers but looking into it may be the ABS unit.  I was going by what the tester said and I don't know my way completely round the engine bay.  It's sort of just under the air filter quite hard to see, so obviously well protected.

I've highlighted the area I had to look through to see (link at bottom)

The pedal dropped to the floor and with the amount of fluid spraying out on each press it wouldn't of taken long to empty the system enough to draw air in, and I didn't want any other damage to other components.

Engine.jpg - Google Drive

[eye30]

Is your car a auto?

On mine where you have highlighted it is the  ABS unit.

There are no flexible pipes, all ridged all the way to the wheel.

What has been written on the MOT fail notice?

[smartie1980]

Definitely rubber pipe only about 3in long and manual. Must be ABS unit then.

It wasn't a failure notice, it was a 'Refusal of an MOT Test'.  Due to the vehicle is not fit to be driven when necessary to complete the test.

I wasn't charged so at least thats somthing.

[eye30]

Checked again and the ABS unit is on the back wall not where the red circle is.

In that area is the gear box

I take it they failed the car so what was the reason they recorded for the failure

[smartie1980]

Checked again and the ABS unit is on the back wall not where the red circle is.

In that area is the gear box

I take it they failed the car so what was the reason they recorded for the failure

Sorry i was just adding it to my last post

[eye30]

Checked again and the ABS unit is on the back wall not where the red circle is.

In that area is the gear box

I take it they failed the car so what was the reason they recorded for the failure

Sorry i was just adding it to my last post

Cheers.

That was good of them to stop and not charge.

Did they transport to dealer for you?

Let us know what the dealer says and what they intended to do and whether they class it as wear and tear of failure of a component which would be warranty repair.

[Asterix]

Sorry to hear about that, but as mentioned; it was the right place it failed.

Only excuse for not being warranty job would be if there's sign of bite from an animal, mouse or rat or whatever.

Have seen fuel lines, vacuum pipes etc eaten by various animals now and then.

Make sure the engine bay is cleaned properly as the brake fluid will dissolve the paint, and maybe some plastic parts as well.

[smartie1980]

Right, dealer called this afternoon...

The pipe that has gone is a rubber pipe coming from the master brake cylinder.

As it is a rubber component the warranty is only valid upto 60k miles or 5yrs and i've done 92k in 4yrs   
Apparently that is the lifespan of rubber!! (I will be checking on my warranty book when I can get at it)

So they must be saying that as soon as you hit 60k your brakes can suffer a critical failure!!!

They quoted me about £230 to repair and the part is on backorder so have told me that it will be 1-2 weeks to get.  They also said that they tried non genuine parts from motor factors and they don't have any either 

Obviously I want to take this further with Hyundai can I have some advice on how to progress this.
Also should the Service Department have been offering me non-genuine parts possibly affecting other parts for warranty?

[asathorny]

That is not a good response at all.....   I think the guarantee has been tested in court and has to be for a reasonabe time I can't recall the case law and my lads away at the mo so can't ask him.

Unless someone comes up with good advice soon I will try to get hold my lad and cite the case law for ya.

In the meantime I would take it up a level and say "I am taking legal advice on this issue..."

Good luck

[eye30]

So how many pipes on the car are rubber?

Not got my book to hand but i do not recall a specific time limit on rubber tubes.

As asa says given the age, 4 yo, i'd be checking out case law re sale of goods/consumer law plus checking the warranty conditions.

So if i get this right......when they replace the fluid at the 4 year service then they should also change any rubber pipes. 

This is not detailed in the service schedule, so should it?

Hy hq need to be approached re this omision in the service schedule as this is a potential safety issue!

May be VOSO needs to be informed.

[Dazzler]

Not Happy Jan  (sorry that's an Aussie thing)

It is normal to have a few things excluded in a long warranty (Battery, Tyres and maybe Exhaust?) but I think trying to get out of this one is stretching it a bit far.. What would a reasonable person expect from a 5 year unlimited kilometre warranty!

I would email Hyundai UK and copy in the dealer, saying you find this situation entirely untenable and are seeking legal and consumer affairs advice! In the mean time contact your local ombudsman or consumer affairs advocate.. maybe even your automobile association for advice...

It is also ridiculous you have to wait 2 weeks without a loan car! I'm sure if you make enough noise tactfully they will (a) help you with a loan car, (b) do an about face with you having to pay...

Here's hoping anyway! 

[Phil №❶]

As failure of this pipe causes a possibly catastrophic event, this would represent a design fault and would require a recall of all cars fitted with this component. It would not be Hyundai's policy to ever let this happen, they are trying to increase their customer base, not kill them. So I would TELL them it's a warranty job, irrespective of it being a rubber component and that you intend to complain to your safety authority, if not fixed immediately.

I've never heard of a failure like this though and if it was a known weakness, then normal servicing would require replacement at a short interval and dealers would carry stock.

It seems strangely coincidental that this happened during an MOT. What are the odds of this 

[Shambles]

So, a component critical to the safety of the car, has perished.

And that doesn't warrant urgent investigation by the dealer?

Hmm..

[asathorny]

As failure of this pipe causes a possibly catastrophic event, this would represent a design fault and would require a recall of all cars fitted with this component. It would not be Hyundai's policy to ever let this happen, they are trying to increase their customer base, not kill them. So I would TELL them it's a warranty job, irrespective of it being a rubber component and that you intend to complain to your safety authority, if not fixed immediately.

I've never heard of a failure like this though and if it was a known weakness, then normal servicing would require replacement at a short interval and dealers would carry stock.

It seems strangely coincidental that this happened during an MOT. What are the odds of this 

Yeah Phil I've been mulling over that too,.....    Did the MOT guy do something to cause this 'accidentaly'.  It does seem mighty strange, the whole thing seems mighty strange.

I didn't express this idea before as I didn't wanna feed the poor guys demons, he's got enough on his plate right now.  <sigh>

[Surferdude]

I've never heard of anything like this.
So, all the flexible brake lines to wheel calipers are also suspect?