Author Topic: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?  (Read 3043 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • au Australia
2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« February 16, 2018, 07:28:23 »
Hi Guys,

Iím getting a little desperate here. I have a VERY low kís for its age diesel i30. 15000 on the clock. The car is obviously out of warranty but has a strange issue. I brought it up here before and thought the problem was fixed with a new battery (and maybe the Computer was reset while doing so).

Turns out, this was not the case. It is a problem 70-80% if the time. It throws no codes and no lights at all. This car does not have a DPF and never did. You can hear it and feel it at all RPMs.

If itís under a gentle load itís most noticeable (driving gently down a long street). Pulse on pulse off pulse on pulse off.

Driving down the road feels like your changing through many gears and for obvious reasons is annoying and likely not good for the engine or fuel economy.

This time, I have uploaded 2 videos. One of gently stalling the car with the handbrake on.

And one of what I just noticed tonight after turning off the car, this noise carries on for 20 seconds - I suspect itís related in the sense that itís a surge on and off in the same timing as the fault.

Appears to be around the fuel pump area by the look of it.

Any ideas anyone!??? Or prior knowledge about this issue!?

Thanks

Ian

Video 1 : stalling transmission

:link: Part 1/2; 2011 Diesel Hyundai i30 engine surge - YouTube

Video 2: under bonnet noise after turning off the car

:link: Part 2/2; 2011 Diesel Hyundai i30 engine surge - YouTube




  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

  • *
  • Laughter is the best medicine. .
  • Posts: 61,527
  • au Australia
    Devonport Tasmania
  • Best Car Forum on the Net
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #1 : February 16, 2018, 14:41:22 »
Has to be something to do with the fuel system in my opinion. But is it the Pump, filter or housing? If there is an air leak in the housing I think it would go into limp home mode (wouldn't rev above 3000 rpm) so I reckon it is most likely the fuel pump, but i'm no mechanic. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly. 
  • MY18 PD SR & 2014 1.6 GDi Tourer (Prev had 2008  i30 CRDi & MY11 Petrol CW)

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #2 : February 16, 2018, 16:32:50 »
Yeah, itís odd! Itís certainly fuel in the sense that itís surging power, however maybe itís something to do with variable vein turbo? Who knows? Does anyone elseís i30 make that noise when they turn it off? Iím only guessing itís related based on the frequency of the sound.
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

  • *
  • Use it or lose it!
  • Posts: 14,359
  • au Australia
    Melbourne
  • Callsign GUNZ
    • Professional Biography
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #3 : February 16, 2018, 17:00:27 »
It's obviously haunted! :crazy1:

Sure it seems to be fuel pump related but the behaviour strikes me as electronics gone askew. This isn't the straightforward system I used to diagnose in my HQ as a teenager (life was simple then). There could be some sensor not quite right feeding an incorrect signal. @cruiserfied might have seen this before.
  • Frugal Firty: FDSLXCRDi5spHyperSilverBodyKit+Mods & MrsG's PDSRPremAuto

  • *
  • HOS BOSS
  • Posts: 25,116
  • england England
    Wirral
  • Wirral, UK. - 1.4 Petrol Active - Aqua Blue
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #4 : February 16, 2018, 17:18:48 »
Is it possible you have bought dodgy fuel?
  • 1.4 Petrol Active       I'm no expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #5 : February 16, 2018, 17:44:17 »
Hi there eye30

Thanks for your input, I feel fuel quality issue is unlikely, based on how many tanks we have gone through since the problem started. And sometimes this behaviour stops all together. But comes back from a fresh cold start. We mostly mostly fill up with BP ultimate diesel. As mentioned above. Itís behavior is very electrical in nature. To me, the car a valve/actuator/pump/PWM sensor/who knows, is doing this to itself. The timing and pulse behaviour to me is very odd.

I feel like the only way something like this could happen and not flag a fault is an ecm failure, like a primer pump/valve resetting over and over.
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

  • *
  • HOS BOSS
  • Posts: 25,116
  • england England
    Wirral
  • Wirral, UK. - 1.4 Petrol Active - Aqua Blue
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #6 : February 17, 2018, 04:35:06 »
Ok as you can discount poor fuel then like you I had similar many years ago with an Accent.

After many months of trying various fixes it turned out to be the fuel pump.

It had an intermittant fault which reduced the flow especially when tank was less than 1/4 and going up hill.  But going down the car would surge.

I call road rescue and the chap found it as i had stopped on a hill facing up!

May be worth checking...
  • 1.4 Petrol Active       I'm no expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #7 : February 17, 2018, 05:20:49 »
Where abouts are you? I don't understand what going on in the first video. What exactly were you doing? All I see is a camera bobbing around. Is your foot off the throttle and it's in drive or what?

The second video is intriguing but again what I'd like to focus on is the swirl flap motor. The high pitched noise is normal but that sounds like a stepper motor as if the ECU does not know where it's limits are but that's me guessing. If you removed that engine cover you'd get a look at the arm.

The other thing, this is auto and these are known to have gremlins there. So what if it's not an engine surge but potentially a trans issue like if the torque converter lockup clutch was constantly cycling?

So 15000k, and old couple. Was it purchased from them or is that what you were told by a dealer?
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #8 : February 17, 2018, 05:34:12 »
Looks like I'm half right,

To prevent the swirl valve and the shaft from being stuck by foreign material and to learn max opening and closing position of the valve, the ECM fully opens and closes the valve twice when engine is being stopped.

Funny, I can't hear it on the wagon, I'll have to check the hatch
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #9 : February 17, 2018, 18:14:39 »
Hi there,

Thanks for your input. Sounds like you may have some knowledge specific to these i30s :). The first video is just stalling the transmission (at ~20% constant throttle, so in drive with the brake on). But as you can see/ more importantly hear, it goes from boosting to almost feels like Iím taking my throttle all the way off and back on again - as such in this scenario rocks the car a bit.

Iíll read into this swirl flap motor. I only just noticed the other noise after switching the engine off (I thought it was odd, and really wondered if that noise was specific to my car only), and plan to jump in and have a look.

It was actually my parents who originally purchased the car new (Qld, Australia) and I bought it off them. Like all their cars, looked after meticulously and ran on the highest quality oils you can get. Always kept garaged, and lives in a climate of 10-35 degrees c. Itís had a good life!

What is the purpose of the swirl valve, never heard of such a thing?

I also plan to put a snap on computer on it again. But every time I visit my friend, the problem has gone away... I am hoping to see a valve or input/output fluctuating. To give me more clues! my Bluetooth OBD reader is useless as it updates info too slowly.
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #10 : February 17, 2018, 18:33:54 »
Hi there,

Thanks for your input. Sounds like you may have some knowledge specific to these i30s :). The first video is just stalling the transmission (at ~20% constant throttle, so in drive with the brake on). But as you can see/ more importantly hear, it goes from boosting to almost feels like Iím taking my throttle all the way off and back on again - as such in this scenario rocks the car a bit.

Iíll read into this swirl flap motor. I only just noticed the other noise after switching the engine off (I thought it was odd, and really wondered if that noise was specific to my car only), and plan to jump in and have a look.

It was actually my parents who originally purchased the car new (Qld, Australia) and I bought it off them. Like all their cars, looked after meticulously and ran on the highest quality oils you can get. Always kept garaged, and lives in a climate of 10-35 degrees c. Itís had a good life!

What is the purpose of the swirl valve, never heard of such a thing?

I also plan to put a snap on computer on it again. But every time I visit my friend, the problem has gone away... I am hoping to see a valve or input/output fluctuating. To give me more clues! my Bluetooth OBD reader is useless as it updates info too slowly.
10 - 35 deg,SE QLD?

Not 100% sure about the swirl flap but I'm thinking along the lines or a dual runner intake on a petrol to improve performance and driveability so at low engine RPM it's likely closed an opens up on demand as the RPMs go up.



How long after you got it it did this? Any mods or work done to the car just prior?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 18:40:38 by tw2005 » »
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

  • *
  • Posts: 2,568
  • au Australia
    Samford Valley
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #11 : February 18, 2018, 01:22:23 »
It certainly seems fuel related. The High pitched sound is normal but not the"buzz".
Given that it is not normal, we have to assume it is part of your problem or will lead to it. Pull the top cover off try to find the source. Use a short piece of tubing as a stethoscope.
Options: swirl flaps, suction valve on pump, cracked vacuum hose.
  • Every FD model; BMW Z3 M; Mitzi Magna(mobile office)

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #12 : February 18, 2018, 01:55:44 »
It certainly seems fuel related. The High pitched sound is normal but not the"buzz".
Given that it is not normal, we have to assume it is part of your problem or will lead to it. Pull the top cover off try to find the source. Use a short piece of tubing as a stethoscope.
Options: swirl flaps, suction valve on pump, cracked vacuum hose.

So what's interesting is the manual says one thing but I just fired up the hatch and the swirl flap stepper motor does not do the 2 duty cycles mentioned. It does close on start up, at shut down it releases which is logical if default is open .

But I'm quite certain that noise is that motor because when powered off I can move that mechanism which is also spring loaded and sounds identical.

:link: Voice 003_sd.m4a - Google Drive
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

  • *
  • Laughter is the best medicine. .
  • Posts: 61,527
  • au Australia
    Devonport Tasmania
  • Best Car Forum on the Net
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #13 : February 18, 2018, 03:31:57 »
What a tag team! Thanks guys (awesome work) :goodjob2: :goodjob:
  • MY18 PD SR & 2014 1.6 GDi Tourer (Prev had 2008  i30 CRDi & MY11 Petrol CW)

  • *
  • Posts: 2,568
  • au Australia
    Samford Valley
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #14 : February 18, 2018, 15:51:56 »
But I'm quite certain that noise is that motor because when powered off I can move that mechanism which is also spring loaded and sounds identical.


Well done , now all we need is the rubber tube test to confirm the theory and we have solved the sound....and then????
  • Every FD model; BMW Z3 M; Mitzi Magna(mobile office)

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #15 : February 19, 2018, 02:53:25 »
But I'm quite certain that noise is that motor because when powered off I can move that mechanism which is also spring loaded and sounds identical.


Well done , now all we need is the rubber tube test to confirm the theory and we have solved the sound....and then????

I was thinking  disconnect power to the servo and observe if the surging goes away if we believe this is the culprit, but you'd expect a MIL.
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #16 : February 19, 2018, 18:53:17 »
Ohhhh, it seems I have presented a new unheard of bug! (Unlucky for me) The engine and everything about the car stock standard. I suspect it may have been happening for longer but the old girl just didnít notice as it still drives ďfineĒ. I noticed as soon as we took ownership of it. Itís been on going for quite a while, and I thought I would ask for ideas here before submitting to Hyundai.

Dads very mechanically minded but never really drove it, and maybe like today it just behaved and worked as normal whenever he did drive it, and never noticed an issue.

Oh, btw, I lie, itís done more like 19k on the clock! Haha.

Iíve finally got a free moment today. thx, tw2005 for looking up the manual and comparing to your car.

Iíll pop the cover off and HOPEFULLY! It does this thing. If not, Iíll have to wait till it does. I appreciate the thoughts, and interest because, although Iím very confident with mechanical things, Iím happy to admit I have no experience on these.

Iíll let you know what I do or donít find!
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #17 : February 19, 2018, 19:24:29 »
Ok.

Itís currently working fine. Sigh.

The mystery continues. 

The pulsing valve noise after shutdown has gone too.

I also then removed the servo actuator plug and ran the engine, still fine, and no engine light.

Need to better understand what this servo does exactly. And what controls it. Maybe an ECM is playing up, or a sensor that drives it is crook? In my mind the only way you would get a pulse, is something tripping and restarting like an ecm.

A faulty sensor would flag faults or a more continuous fail and not cause a pulse?

If I slightly stall the transmission and manually push the actuator servo thing, nothing significant happens. Whatever drives this, must also have a fuel request to cause boosting/surging.

:link: Part 3/3; 2011 Diesel Hyundai i30 engine surge - YouTube

A very different shutdown noise compared to when itís playing up!
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

  • *
  • Posts: 2,817
  • au Australia
    Ipswich
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #18 : February 19, 2018, 19:56:20 »
I  wonder if it's worth checking all earth straps are clean and secure?
  • 2008 i30 SLX CRDi Auto, 2010 i30CW SLX CRDi Auto. 2008 i30 CRDi SX manual, Welly

  • *
  • Posts: 2,568
  • au Australia
    Samford Valley
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #19 : February 19, 2018, 21:45:36 »
Also are the flaps moving freely - shouldn't be gummed by tar at 16,000, but lack of hard driving may be the cause--this weeks long shot.
It does sound more like a programme glitch. 
  • Every FD model; BMW Z3 M; Mitzi Magna(mobile office)

  • *
  • Posts: 2,568
  • au Australia
    Samford Valley
Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #20 : February 19, 2018, 21:53:14 »
:link: Swirl motor

See Last post by Lorain notes 3 & 5 are informative
  • Every FD model; BMW Z3 M; Mitzi Magna(mobile office)

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #21 : February 19, 2018, 23:17:26 »
Ohhhh, thx for the link, I missed that thread in my searchís. Interesting I get no codes at all, even when itís unplugged and driving.

Feels free to move.

Been flogging it where possible. Well, not abusing but holding it flat onto highways, and plenty of quick starts from the lights. Hoping to clear out any carbon that may have built up from small shopping runs by the old girl. Not that driving it hard now will affect anything on the intake.

I read all the way through someoneís intake manifold clean on this forum. Yuck! Why donít they have some sort of factory filter on the exhaust recirc!

Interestingly. Itís good now, after I flogged it all yesterday. But, Ive found this before and Iím confident the gremlin will be back!

I very much suspect Iím going to have to take it to a dealer and then hope itís playing up for them.
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

Re: 2011 diesel Hyundai i30 surging engine, any ideas!?
« Reply #22 : February 19, 2018, 23:20:31 »
I  wonder if it's worth checking all earth straps are clean and secure?

I might go through and check all the connections I can get my hands on. Clutching at straws but. I donít really have many options!
Canít hurt to try!
  • 2011 CRDi i30 16000ks

 


anything