Author Topic: Tyre noise  (Read 1538 times)

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Tyre noise
« August 26, 2018, 08:09:14 »
Hi,

Wife changed car as she drives much and needs diesel. This is 2013 1.6CRDi i30 hatchback. Tyres are Hankook Kinergy Eco 195/65 R15. Car is very good in every other way but the tyre noise is really horrible. Starting from 50kmh. I stripped the interior and added STP black gold to the trunk and floor. Also foam sound deadener wherever there was space eg. around rear fender. Having finished applying the butyl mats and test drove the car, itís still the same. You can imagine how that feels thinking the amount of work it was.

It seems the noise is structure-born noise. Comes through the suspension to the car frame and only way to get rid of it is to isolate the suspension from the car body. That noise is like thereís a very bad wheel bearings in front. Anyone tracked down what component in suspension does conduct the noise? Would aftermarket coilover kit help?

This issue is only on rough tarmac. Here in Finland where most of the people drive studded tyres long winter months, those studs eat the bitumen between the stones, making the surface rough.


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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #1 : August 26, 2018, 08:24:37 »
Hi,

Wife changed car as she drives much and needs diesel. This is 2013 1.6CRDi i30 hatchback. Tyres are Hankook Kinergy Eco 195/65 R15. Car is very good in every other way but the tyre noise is really horrible. Starting from 50kmh. I stripped the interior and added STP black gold to the trunk and floor. Also foam sound deadener wherever there was space eg. around rear fender. Having finished applying the butyl mats and test drove the car, itís still the same. You can imagine how that feels thinking the amount of work it was.

It seems the noise is structure-born noise. Comes through the suspension to the car frame and only way to get rid of it is to isolate the suspension from the car body. That noise is like thereís a very bad wheel bearings in front. Anyone tracked down what component in suspension does conduct the noise? Would aftermarket coilover kit help?

This issue is only on rough tarmac. Here in Finland where most of the people drive studded tyres long winter months, those studs eat the bitumen between the stones, making the surface rough.
Hey mate,

Check my recent posting about a similar problem with my wife's i30 Tourer/wagon CRDi (also 2013) - the tyre noise is worst around 50-55km/h as well, but it kind of disappears when above 80kmh - in fact pretty quiet around 110kmh (aside from tyre roar on rough bitumen, which is expected given this is a non luxury small car).

The latest diagnosis is my mechanic reckons the tyre is wearing out not quite round (possibly scalloping/bulging where previous puncture repairs were - come to think of it).

The tyres are due for replacement soon - I'm keen to see if the noise goes away with new tyres. I'll update.



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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #2 : August 26, 2018, 09:11:01 »
Tyre/road surface harmonic's can be quite loud in many vehicle nowdays, you'll see huge reductions in noise with any vehicle that has the strut towers situated further from the cabin, some companies use a different composite material at the shock mounting that helps to prevent this and some have better body mounting systems.

Companies like Chevrolet also fill their chassis with expander spray foam...not sure what can be done in our current i30's though :undecided: it can be very annoying on the more course bitumen.

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #3 : August 26, 2018, 16:43:48 »
Hi,

Wife changed car as she drives much and needs diesel. This is 2013 1.6CRDi i30 hatchback. Tyres are Hankook Kinergy Eco 195/65 R15. Car is very good in every other way but the tyre noise is really horrible. Starting from 50kmh. I stripped the interior and added STP black gold to the trunk and floor. Also foam sound deadener wherever there was space eg. around rear fender. Having finished applying the butyl mats and test drove the car, itís still the same. You can imagine how that feels thinking the amount of work it was.

It seems the noise is structure-born noise. Comes through the suspension to the car frame and only way to get rid of it is to isolate the suspension from the car body. That noise is like thereís a very bad wheel bearings in front. Anyone tracked down what component in suspension does conduct the noise? Would aftermarket coilover kit help?

This issue is only on rough tarmac. Here in Finland where most of the people drive studded tyres long winter months, those studs eat the bitumen between the stones, making the surface rough.
Hey mate,

Check my recent posting about a similar problem with my wife's i30 Tourer/wagon CRDi (also 2013) - the tyre noise is worst around 50-55km/h as well, but it kind of disappears when above 80kmh - in fact pretty quiet around 110kmh (aside from tyre roar on rough bitumen, which is expected given this is a non luxury small car).

The latest diagnosis is my mechanic reckons the tyre is wearing out not quite round (possibly scalloping/bulging where previous puncture repairs were - come to think of it).

The tyres are due for replacement soon - I'm keen to see if the noise goes away with new tyres. I'll update.
  The rear end on the tourer is very similar to the FD series independant rear end. I've had to replace on 2 vehicles the rear shocks for tyre scalloping.  Inner edge was turning into a 50 cent piece.

Whilst replacing the tyres should make it go quiet if the shocks are tired it may end up the same in time.

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #4 : August 26, 2018, 18:24:16 »
^
What he said.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #5 : August 26, 2018, 19:19:40 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #6 : August 26, 2018, 19:28:51 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #7 : August 26, 2018, 20:40:05 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Apologies - in my haste last night I didn't realise the OP's vehicle was a hatchback. The GD hatchback I believe has a beam rear end not independent.

BTW I'm quite concerned about the rear dampers wearing out and contributing to the scallop - is there a way of checking these dampers out? I've done the bounce test a few times but can't see any worrying levels of oscillation, plus hitting bumper corners hasn't thrown the car off line or anything - I just hate bringing the car into the "experts" like Midas and Pedders (in Aust) where it's 99.5% confirmed "yep your end is stuffed and it'll be $1k to replace it blah blah blah".

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #8 : August 26, 2018, 21:00:07 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Apologies - in my haste last night I didn't realise the OP's vehicle was a hatchback. The GD hatchback I believe has a beam rear end not independent.

BTW I'm quite concerned about the rear dampers wearing out and contributing to the scallop - is there a way of checking these dampers out? I've done the bounce test a few times but can't see any worrying levels of oscillation, plus hitting bumper corners hasn't thrown the car off line or anything - I just hate bringing the car into the "experts" like Midas and Pedders (in Aust) where it's 99.5% confirmed "yep your end is stuffed and it'll be $1k to replace it blah blah blah".
If the bounce test isn't showing anything untoward, and there are no leaks (a small amount of staining around the shaft is generally OK), then they should be OK.
To save me looking back, what kilometres have you done?
Also, if the shocks are gone, you'll notice some "hoppiness" under heavy braking on uneven surfaces.  (which I assume you are referring to above where you mention bumper (y) corners not throwing the car off line.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #9 : August 26, 2018, 21:01:23 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Completely different symptoms to aranciataoz then as I get exactly the same harmonics issue which has nothing to do with worn shocks.

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #10 : August 26, 2018, 21:17:43 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Apologies - in my haste last night I didn't realise the OP's vehicle was a hatchback. The GD hatchback I believe has a beam rear end not independent.

BTW I'm quite concerned about the rear dampers wearing out and contributing to the scallop - is there a way of checking these dampers out? I've done the bounce test a few times but can't see any worrying levels of oscillation, plus hitting bumper corners hasn't thrown the car off line or anything - I just hate bringing the car into the "experts" like Midas and Pedders (in Aust) where it's 99.5% confirmed "yep your end is stuffed and it'll be $1k to replace it blah blah blah".
If the bounce test isn't showing anything untoward, and there are no leaks (a small amount of staining around the shaft is generally OK), then they should be OK.
To save me looking back, what kilometres have you done?
Also, if the shocks are gone, you'll notice some "hoppiness" under heavy braking on uneven surfaces.  (which I assume you are referring to above where you mention bumper (y) corners not throwing the car off line.
I haven't stuck my head under to check out the shaft but definitely no hoppiness under heavy braking, but not that I've done much heavy braking! It's definitely stable as when taking corners - just did a Sydney-Canberra round trip over the weekend, including a  jaunt up to Corin Forest at pretty good speeds. The car just had its 75k service done. Running beautifully, even 4.5L/100km readout on the way home on the Hume yesterday. Never had the car running so lean, could be due to the 5W/30 full syn oil and 2nd tank of BP Ultimate Diesel.

But the tyre roar at 50kmh still annoys, having said that one can't hear it when the boot was once again packed to the brim during the weekend away (same deal in April when we headed up north). Very interesting, these harmonics ....

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #11 : August 26, 2018, 21:21:46 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Completely different symptoms to aranciataoz then as I get exactly the same harmonics issue which has nothing to do with worn shocks.
Worn shocks are only one possible cause.
The tyre tread / construction can be a cause. Solution: replace tyresTyre tread worn unevenly (maybe scalloping, maybe uneven shoulder wear. Generally alignment issues which could be as simple as toe settings or as serious as something bent.
Worn or loose wheel bearings. Solution: adjust or replace nearings.
Worn shocks. Solution: replace.
Road surface. Surfaces, tread patterns, tread wear all react differently to surfaces. Solution: (only partly in cheek), turn the stereo up.

I guess my point is, it's not the shocks that cause the noise but the effects of the shocks'condition.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #12 : August 26, 2018, 21:23:51 »
Arenít we discussing the OPís problem with a 2013 hatchback :undecided:
Yes.
Apologies - in my haste last night I didn't realise the OP's vehicle was a hatchback. The GD hatchback I believe has a beam rear end not independent.

BTW I'm quite concerned about the rear dampers wearing out and contributing to the scallop - is there a way of checking these dampers out? I've done the bounce test a few times but can't see any worrying levels of oscillation, plus hitting bumper corners hasn't thrown the car off line or anything - I just hate bringing the car into the "experts" like Midas and Pedders (in Aust) where it's 99.5% confirmed "yep your end is stuffed and it'll be $1k to replace it blah blah blah".
If the bounce test isn't showing anything untoward, and there are no leaks (a small amount of staining around the shaft is generally OK), then they should be OK.
To save me looking back, what kilometres have you done?
Also, if the shocks are gone, you'll notice some "hoppiness" under heavy braking on uneven surfaces.  (which I assume you are referring to above where you mention bumper (y) corners not throwing the car off line.
I haven't stuck my head under to check out the shaft but definitely no hoppiness under heavy braking, but not that I've done much heavy braking! It's definitely stable as when taking corners - just did a Sydney-Canberra round trip over the weekend, including a  jaunt up to Corin Forest at pretty good speeds. The car just had its 75k service done. Running beautifully, even 4.5L/100km readout on the way home on the Hume yesterday. Never had the car running so lean, could be due to the 5W/30 full syn oil and 2nd tank of BP Ultimate Diesel.

But the tyre roar at 50kmh still annoys, having said that one can't hear it when the boot was once again packed to the brim during the weekend away (same deal in April when we headed up north). Very interesting, these harmonics ....

True.
I've always noticed a difference in the road noise, even just by removing the rear parcel shelf. In both my FD and our two Corollas. My wife's previous Corolla, a sedan, was as quiet as you could want.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #13 : August 26, 2018, 21:35:03 »
I guess my point is, it's not the shocks that cause the noise but the effects of the shocks'condition.
What I'm saying is how the shocks transfer road noise into the strut tower and is amplified by certain chassis constructions which transfers resononce into the cabin, yes different tyres can exagerate the noise but it's mainly due to mounting.

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #14 : August 28, 2018, 04:34:53 »
@2beer I also did the sounddeadening, it lowered a bit. Most effect I got from installing a sound insulation(wafflefoam) behind the roof lining. I did not do the floor yet though. I think a lot of the rear noise enters through the rear seat but have not yet had time to inspect it and see if there is anything to do about it. Mines a tourer though, so sounds bounce around a lot more in the cabin.

Changing to quieter tires helps a little, but not enough to warrant changing the tires before there worn out. (My OE were 72db, new ones are 68db, noticeable but not very big difference)

Rear brakes could be

@aranciataoz Mine runs a lot quieter and better on 0w30 aswell
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #15 : August 28, 2018, 05:26:37 »
I did post the results on here a few years back when I have my last i30 sound deadened by a specialist which cost a few hundred pounds. I tried to convince myself it made a difference - but I guess I was in reality denial mode having spent so much on it.

They did all cabin surfaces and the boot with some heavy material which must have added at least 100 kg to the weight of the car.  The only areas not treated were inside the doors - It cost too much to have them strip out the door cards, window mechanisms etc to get to the metal and in some areas there was insufficient clearance for the insulation material.

When you think about it - if there was a cost effective magic bullet the car manufacturers would do it themselves, add £100 to the list price and get a refinement advantage over their competitors.


I had a taxi journey last week in a 2 year old Lexus petrol large saloon and the tyre noise was a bad as my car. Even they have not licked this vexing problem.


There aint no silence pot at the end of this rainbow.
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #16 : August 28, 2018, 05:34:01 »
Alan, Have a nice quiet drive (if you can keep your foot off the pedal :)) in the new Camaro and Mustangs with their expander foam filled chassis, not sure how well they'll last long term though if moisture get into the chassis :undecided:

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #17 : August 28, 2018, 06:36:19 »
My bet is the tyre noise is drowned out by the snarl of the big engines and semi open exhausts...Ö. :rofl:
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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #18 : August 28, 2018, 06:45:11 »
My bet is the tyre noise is drowned out by the snarl of the big engines and semi open exhausts...Ö. :rofl:
It would be if I got my hands on one, supercharged with a twin 3" system :D but then again that's why I got rid of my Clubsport :whistler: :snigger:

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Re: Tyre noise
« Reply #19 : September 14, 2018, 19:45:19 »
Tyre noise probably comes from the tyres!

Ok, having made myself into a smart-arse, let me recap an experience on a MY11 FD Hatch.

Car developed a noise that sounded for all the world like a rear wheel bearing. Car went in for a service and I asked them to check out the noise. Got no feedback until I picked up the car and I was told it was the tyres. I was told that they proved it by swapping rear tyres to the front, so I needed new tyres.
Driving away from the dealer service, I only got a half km as the noise (now from the front) was unbearable, before I turned around and straight to tyre service for 4 new tyres. (I had Continental tyres fitted which are wearing well and much quieter thgan the originals.)
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