Author Topic: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km  (Read 2549 times)

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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #90 : September 13, 2018, 12:34:33 »
This is new and old side by side. New one is FAI. Other end of the chain is in level with each other and other end reveals how much old is longer. On half way the difference is approx 3mm. The distance in between pins of the chain is 6.0-6.5mm.

So totally difference is almost on full chain element! It's not surprise tensioner went to the limit.




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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #91 : September 13, 2018, 13:14:30 »
Just made leak test by using ethanol. All 8 valves which were easy to test leaks.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #92 : September 13, 2018, 13:57:51 »
This is new and old side by side. New one is FAI. Other end of the chain is in level with each other and other end reveals how much old is longer. On half way the difference is approx 3mm. The distance in between pins of the chain is 6.0-6.5mm.

So totally difference is almost on full chain element! It's not surprise tensioner went to the limit.




It's all those hard flat shifts your doing on the limiter :mrgreen:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #93 : September 13, 2018, 16:39:40 »
Just made leak test by using ethanol. All 8 valves which were easy to test leaks.

Sorry, Missing a bit in translation  :confused: Are they sealed or leaking?

To be honest, I cant comment on how much chain stretch is acceptable on any particular motor. I do know from past experience that the chains  and probably tensioners are supplied by independent manufactures . Some are better than others depending upon supplier.
On the French  :spitty: made Nissan turbo diesels for instance, pre 2007 motors went to about 250K km, which is still crap, but not as bad as the next batch that lasted until 140K km when the jumped or snapped.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 16:44:51 by nzenigma » »
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #94 : September 14, 2018, 01:32:58 »
What would the useable life of the timing chain be in this case? I'd hope for at least 300'000km, of course there may be outliers in the results such at this one but with my i30 nearing 250k km I am rather worried :faint:

Also, good to read about the hill starts and it not producing enough oil pressure for the tensioner - it would make logical sense and something to avoid where possible :goodjob2:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #95 : September 14, 2018, 03:56:29 »
Also, good to read about the hill starts and it not producing enough oil pressure for the tensioner - it would make logical sense and something to avoid where possible :goodjob2:

 :goodjob2: The knowledge I have comes from ex- East Europeans, (colleagues for many years) who work on VW Skoda etc.
 With due respect to Henri,  he seems to be ignoring the fact that his chain failed on a hill start. No earlier symptoms such as rattle, or why a relatively low Kms chain failed, has been explored.

@PhireSide  with regard to 300,000km chain life, it depends on the motor. In the past 300,000 miles or NEVER used to be reasonable.
However, we used to have large , naturally aspirated, 6 or 8 cylinder engines, that went for ever, we are now getting similar power out of 4 cylinder, 2.2 litre engines with a turbo..
Gut feeling tells me that these smaller motors will not last as long as the big old brutes.
I think  :mrgreen:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #96 : September 14, 2018, 15:09:03 »
What would the useable life of the timing chain be in this case? I'd hope for at least 300'000km, of course there may be outliers in the results such at this one but with my i30 nearing 250k km I am rather worried :faint:

Also, good to read about the hill starts and it not producing enough oil pressure for the tensioner - it would make logical sense and something to avoid where possible :goodjob2:

Based on first-hand experience, this time I'm very 100% sure, this chain wouldn't have survived much longer. The fact is that engine fault light became before hill start. I hill started after engine shut down while rolling downhill clutch pressed. Then I made the hill start and broke the engine. The fact is that engine fault was active almost 100 km. A fault code is timing over advanced, or something this way. There is a photo up there shot from code reader.

So, chain most likely jumped over the teeth somewhere on normal use and second or third teeth on the hill start.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #97 : September 14, 2018, 15:19:38 »
Also, good to read about the hill starts and it not producing enough oil pressure for the tensioner - it would make logical sense and something to avoid where possible :goodjob2:

 :goodjob2: The knowledge I have comes from ex- East Europeans, (colleagues for many years) who work on VW Skoda etc.
 With due respect to Henri,  he seems to be ignoring the fact that his chain failed on a hill start. No earlier symptoms such as rattle, or why a relatively low Kms chain failed, has been explored.

@PhireSide  with regard to 300,000km chain life, it depends on the motor. In the past 300,000 miles or NEVER used to be reasonable.
However, we used to have large , naturally aspirated, 6 or 8 cylinder engines, that went for ever, we are now getting similar power out of 4 cylinder, 2.2 litre engines with a turbo..
Gut feeling tells me that these smaller motors will not last as long as the big old brutes.
I think  :mrgreen:

I've been using and seeing the era of mechanical analysis on engineering since 2000. My feeling is that earlier before accurate analysis (FEM / dynamic analysis) engines had to build strong. The designer didn't have tools for optimizing. Today we have tools for optimization but what values designer type to software for stress analysis and lifetime analysis is still mostly manual math and educated/experience based guess. In theory and ideal world I believe these chains, for instance, works 300000 km but the world is not ideal. The stress of the engine is not ideal. Manufacturing is not ideal. Materials are not ideal. The designer has guidelines to make it small and light. As light and cheap as possible.

Do they take an account all the variables? They can't. Before it was not possible to optimize and therefore all were made strong enough and a little more.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #98 : September 14, 2018, 15:24:06 »

Here you can see the damage. This is the worst valve, so not that catastrophic. Next cylinder head will be disassembled by a friend who has experience and grinding pasta/tools to fit valves.


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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #99 : September 14, 2018, 17:19:08 »

I've been using and seeing the era of mechanical analysis on engineering since 2000. My feeling is that earlier before accurate analysis (FEM / dynamic analysis) engines had to build strong. The designer didn't have tools for optimizing. Today we have tools for optimization but what values designer type to software for stress analysis and lifetime analysis is still mostly manual math and educated/experience based guess. In theory and ideal world I believe these chains, for instance, works 300000 km but the world is not ideal. The stress of the engine is not ideal. Manufacturing is not ideal. Materials are not ideal. The designer has guidelines to make it small and light. As light and cheap as possible.

Henri,  I reconditioned the motor in my first car in 1966.  ;); that car still runs today and still has its original timing chain.

With regard to materials, metallurgy available to us today has been developed exponentially with the aid of science, war , the racetrack and space travel.

During the 1980s- 90s wreckers bought smashed cars based upon the sale value of the motor. Today, they have containers full of motors that they cant sell and will probably use as boat anchors.

In the case of your jumped chain, is this an isolated incident? This is the first report here of premature chain failure in a petrol i30. There may be others, but usually a common fault will be discussed.










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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #100 : September 15, 2018, 02:28:58 »


In the case of your jumped chain, is this an isolated incident? This is the first report here of premature chain failure in a petrol i30. There may be others, but usually a common fault will be discussed.

Official Hyundai repair shop didn't say that directly but I understood my car is not first. He said that "usually" they find timing error early enough and they can fix it by timing chain + tensioner replacement.

We have had a wide discussion about VW/Skoda/Audi timing belt issues in here. On one specific area belt wear out prematurely on many cars and after research, they found the reason to be one Highway which had some kind of new pavement in the test use. It released something which made the belt wear out.
That is very different issue but "area specific" issues may arise.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #101 : September 15, 2018, 06:22:13 »
Ok thanks
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #102 : September 23, 2018, 09:16:53 »
Cylinder head is in place and valves are fitted. The guy who made valve grinding / fitting told that exhaust valves had signs of leaking already. This is below 120000km driven engine. I trust his experience because he has done tuning for several engines over 20 years of time. Kind of very advanced home mechanician with home modified lathe and milling machines for camshaft and other part fitting/modify. Btw now he had project Mazda RX7. 1.3 liter wankel is supposed to kick 300+hp after some tricks. Not many such is made earlier I guess.

Interesting workshop to visit.





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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #103 : September 23, 2018, 16:23:02 »
Possible leak due to bad valve timing.

Will be interested to hear your comments re performance/ power when it is running again .  :goodjob2:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #104 : September 27, 2018, 13:07:48 »
For me it's tricky to say about performance because wife drives this car. I don't have a feeling over long period of time how it should be. The difference in between last day performance and new performance should be clear. 0-100 kmh took 22 seconds :)

This step today felt tricky and is perhaps the most critical. By failing this step it is easy to go back to the starting point: timing chain and -mark lineup. I didnt see another mark at all first and when looked with mirror it was clear. Ia this something relates to led lightning, I dont know. Anyway, marks are there and I assume this lineup is correct:







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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #105 : September 27, 2018, 16:40:08 »
Not familiar with exactly those marks, but looks correct. Assume crank mark is at TDC?
Would be good to check by turning motor over by hand with plugs out and watch cam positions as piston travels top to bottom etc. If it seems correct you are correct too.  :mrgreen:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #106 : September 30, 2018, 12:03:24 »
Not familiar with exactly those marks, but looks correct. Assume crank mark is at TDC?
Would be good to check by turning motor over by hand with plugs out and watch cam positions as piston travels top to bottom etc. If it seems correct you are correct too.  :mrgreen:

Valves did shift exactly when piston was at top. I used 30cm thin rod on spark plug hole to monitor piston movement. Alignment marks are not that exact at all. When chain marks were on sprocket mark, were those main marks on sprockets "about" aligned to the cylinder head. The difference was less than a teeth but still it left some doubt. Those should be perfectly exactly aligned.

But now engine is assembled and tomorrow I add cooling liquid.

Final assembly after cylinder head was tightened took 7 hours nonstop from first timer like me. I tried to be very careful on all steps and especially with old sealing removal and new sealing installation. Side plate is sealed only with glue and oil wants to leak to everywhere on sealed surface. Next time I would clean all oil away right after disassembly and blow remainings out. Oil and silicon sealing is not compatible before silicone is dried.

Cables and connectors found places very easily. They were like tight fit and didnt reach anywhere else than correct place. At least I believe so before try to start the engine :)



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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #107 : September 30, 2018, 16:33:57 »
If nothing went clunk then you are good. The marks on chain  will be ok remember the cam timing is variable when running (VVT) good Luck. :goodjob2:
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #108 : October 01, 2018, 14:05:56 »
Engine started well and runs good. Water circulation is difficult as usual. Opening upper water hose a little helped slightly but still heat didnt reach the cabin. I let it cool now and continue next time. Approx 4 liters of coolant liquid is now added.


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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #109 : October 01, 2018, 17:00:06 »
Yes need to nurse air out & water in until thermostat opens. Try idling with cap off, watch temp and water level.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #110 : October 02, 2018, 04:38:27 »
Yes need to nurse air out & water in until thermostat opens. Try idling with cap off, watch temp and water level.
Last time with Audi I borrowed thermal camera to get all air out. It required quite heavy and scary warmup eventhough had three air valves.
I tried today morning again and got water a little further to get warn air in cabin.

Looks promising.
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Re: 2011 i30 1.4 CW engine failure due chain issue at 120 000km
« Reply #111 : October 02, 2018, 16:44:34 »
 :goodjob2:
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