RPM fluctuates after cold start for ~30 secs. Idles fine once settled.

[guest11171]

Thanks for your input guys, just trying to decide between giving them another chance or asking them to cover the cost of repair at another garage. I am very concerned that this is an issue that will only get worse and don’t want to be in the situation that I have been in the past where the car becomes undriveable because of a problem that could have been sorted when it first came on ..

[Dazzler]

Thanks for your input guys, just trying to decide between giving them another chance or asking them to cover the cost of repair at another garage. I am very concerned that this is an issue that will only get worse and don’t want to be in the situation that I have been in the past where the car becomes undriveable because of a problem that could have been sorted when it first came on ..

Make noises about taking it elsewhere with them to pay the costs. This might scare them into "pulling their finger out"!. Obviously if they encourage you to go that way, make sure you get something in writing or you could be left "hung out to dry" with a big bill.

Threaten consumer protection if they are not supportive and understanding. You've done the Mr Nice guy thing already. 

[guest11171]

Thanks for your input guys, just trying to decide between giving them another chance or asking them to cover the cost of repair at another garage. I am very concerned that this is an issue that will only get worse and don’t want to be in the situation that I have been in the past where the car becomes undriveable because of a problem that could have been sorted when it first came on ..

Make noises about taking it elsewhere with them to pay the costs. This might scare them into "pulling their finger out"!. Obviously if they encourage you to go that way, make sure you get something in writing or you could be left "hung out to dry" with a big bill.

Threaten consumer protection if they are not supportive and understanding. You've done the Mr Nice guy thing already. 

Another 2 days passed and I still haven't received the job card for the work that had been done! The service manager had no idea what had been done when I went to collect the car and so all in all very frustrating.

I emailed this morning to express my disappoinment and, having copied the sales executive that sold me the car into the emails, the service manager has miraculously become very pleasant and has promised me the job card by the end of the day. They have also offered to come and collect my car next week and leave me with another courtesy car to (hopefully) resolve the additional issues for good.

Time will tell how the next investigation pans out but I really didn't intend to be returning to the garage 3 times in 3 weeks for simple repair work like this! It's a good job that I absolutely love the car or else this would have all gone down very differently! 

[Dazzler]

They are lucky you are so patient. Keep at them and hopefully you will end up with a good result. 

[nzenigma]

 

They are lucky you are so patient. Keep at them and hopefully you will end up with a good result. 

 

Stay with it, hold the loan car until satisfied.

[guest11171]

They are lucky you are so patient. Keep at them and hopefully you will end up with a good result. 

 

Stay with it, hold the loan car until satisfied.

I think the current plan is to allow them one more chance and if they still haven't resolved any of the issues then to demand they pay for the repair to be done elsewhere. I would be well within my rights to reject the car should it be unrepairable and to get a full refund but I really don't want to have to get rid of the car.

Is this really such a difficult fault to repair? ONLY occurs on COLD starts, 1 in every 3 or 4 ..

Surely there are only so many components that would affect the car finding idle upon cold start??

STILL haven't received the job card so no idea if they even did the glow plugs

[Dazzler]

Unfortunately I think some of these places make it all too hard hoping people will go away and just live with the issues. 

Once they realise you won't put up with crap, they may pull their finger out.

I had nearly 20 years as a Banker (don't even go there guys ) and almost the same in retail and always did my best to keep customers happy. I don't understand the mentality of some of these places. 

[guest11171]

Unfortunately I think some of these places make it all too hard hoping people will go away and just live with the issues. 

Once they realise you won't put up with crap, they may pull their finger out.

I had nearly 20 years as a Banker (don't even go there guys ) and almost the same in retail and always did my best to keep customers happy. I don't understand the mentality of some of these places. 

I think it's partly down to the fact that they see so many customers over the years that they become a little numb to the complaints but I always like to make them consider how they would feel if someone else had sold this car/ product/ service etc to a loved one of theirs and had given them the same level of poor service. I am more than willing to look past the window trim and rear wiper defects (albeit it a little disappointing from a main dealer) but the cold start issue is a red flag for me that must be repaired before I am satisfied that I will be keeping the car!

[nzenigma]

Unfortunately I think some of these places make it all too hard hoping people will go away and just live with the issues. 

Once they realise you won't put up with crap, they may pull their finger out.

I had nearly 20 years as a Banker (don't even go there guys ) and almost the same in retail and always did my best to keep customers happy. I don't understand the mentality of some of these places. 

I think it's partly down to the fact that they see so many customers over the years that they become a little numb to the complaints but I always like to make them consider how they would feel if someone else had sold this car/ product/ service etc to a loved one of theirs and had given them the same level of poor service. I am more than willing to look past the window trim and rear wiper defects (albeit it a little disappointing from a main dealer) but the cold start issue is a red flag for me that must be repaired before I am satisfied that I will be keeping the car!

This is a corporate plague.
The only thing that is numb is the management mindset.

It starts from the top and infects all the staff. They do nothing, they learn nothing and eventually arrogance masks their incompetence.

Most contemporary managers have had little or no experience in running their own business, they do not understand the principle of "the happy repeat customer and his friends, puts food on the table".

Basically, they will exist in their current job until the next financial crash. After that, they will tell us that they are blameless, it was all the fault of Wall Street and they are entitled to line up for the dole money we supply.

END of sermon #657 

[tw2005]

Unfortunately I think some of these places make it all too hard hoping people will go away and just live with the issues. 

Once they realise you won't put up with crap, they may pull their finger out.

I had nearly 20 years as a Banker (don't even go there guys ) and almost the same in retail and always did my best to keep customers happy. I don't understand the mentality of some of these places. 

I think it's partly down to the fact that they see so many customers over the years that they become a little numb to the complaints but I always like to make them consider how they would feel if someone else had sold this car/ product/ service etc to a loved one of theirs and had given them the same level of poor service. I am more than willing to look past the window trim and rear wiper defects (albeit it a little disappointing from a main dealer) but the cold start issue is a red flag for me that must be repaired before I am satisfied that I will be keeping the car!

This is a corporate plague.
The only thing that is numb is the management mindset.

It starts from the top and infects all the staff. They do nothing, they learn nothing and eventually arrogance masks their incompetence.

Most contemporary managers have had little or no experience in running their own business, they do not understand the principle of "the repeat customer talking to his friends puts food on the table".

Basically, they will exist in their current job until the next financial crash. After that, they will tell us that they are blameless, it was all the fault of Wall Street and they are entitled to line up for the dole money we supply.

END of sermon #657 

Sorry, I've missed the previous 656 is there a depository of such contentious words of wisdom?

[guest11171]

Customer service aside .. I won’t be receiving the job card for the work done until Monday at the earliest so can’t do much more investigation in the mean time.

If they haven’t changed the glow plugs already then I will remain optimistic that it could be as simple as replacing those but I am reading lots on other forums about injectors and injector timing and fuel pressure/ fuel pressure sensor(s).

Considering running a bottle of Wynn’s injector cleaner or diesel system cleaner through my next tank of diesel as a little ‘experiment’. Would anyone recommend? I am half wondering if their hesitance to provide me with a job card means that they probably haven’t done much more than that anyway ..

[guest11171]

.. and a video for anyone that is interested ..

Hyundai i30 cold start idle fluctuations - YouTube


again, ONLY on completely cold starts and only one in every 3 or 4. Never idles rough once it has settled and never when starting the car still warm.

[Vitruvian]

Hi, I have 2013. 1.6CRDI (97 000km) with same issue. I bought it used four months ago and didn't experience this issue until weather conditions was changed.
What I notice is that it happens only on first (cold) start when temperature is from 17 to 22°C
No problems at all on higher or lower temperatures from that, even on 2°C so it is definitely not glow plugs.
My opinion is that it is probably problem with some temperature sensor, I don't know...

It's happening rare and I actually can live with it, I don't have any warranty to complain to someone and except that issue, car is working great.

I understand your frustration because you have warranty and I really hope you will solve this soon.
Please keep us informed

Just one more thing, my i30 also have missing decorative chrome strip under small quarter window.
They seem to have used some bad glue in 2013.

[Dazzler]

Hi Vitruvian, Thanks for that feedback. 

[guest11171]

Hi, I have 2013. 1.6CRDI (97 000km) with same issue. I bought it used four months ago and didn't experience this issue until weather conditions was changed.
What I notice is that it happens only on first (cold) start when temperature is from 17 to 22°C
No problems at all on higher or lower temperatures from that, even on 2°C so it is definitely not glow plugs.
My opinion is that it is probably problem with some temperature sensor, I don't know...

It's happening rare and I actually can live with it, I don't have any warranty to complain to someone and except that issue, car is working great.

I understand your frustration because you have warranty and I really hope you will solve this soon.
Please keep us informed

Just one more thing, my i30 also have missing decorative chrome strip under small quarter window.
They seem to have used some bad glue in 2013.

Wow, what are the chances! 

I will keep all informed when I hear anything back .. STILL no idea what has actually been done yet!

Currently running a few tanks of premium diesel through to see if that might clean up the injectors etc a little .. will report back

[CraigB]

What happens if you rev the engine a little when the rpm is fluctuating, does it become normal after that?

[guest11171]

What happens if you rev the engine a little when the rpm is fluctuating, does it become normal after that?

I haven’t attempted that as I don’t want to mask the issue. Would trying this provide any useful information towards identifying a potential cause?

Having revved through months of idle issues in my girlfriends Mini Cooper, the sodding thing eventually started to cut out even when driving. Four or five garages including a mini specialist looked at the car during the worst of the idle issues and none could identify the cause. Thousands of pounds on repairs and a replacement car later and I’ve learnt my lesson to have the problem resolved early rather than trying to live with it!

FINALLY HEARD BACK FROM THE GARAGE RE: WORK CARRIED OUT ..

The workshop controller has got back to me and has detailed all investigation/ repair work done. They have replaced all 4 glow plugs and believe this should have cured this issue. Admittedly, the symptoms have improved drastically but the car still doesn’t settle immediately upon cold start every time. Should I expect it to? All of my previous cars have but they have all been petrol. I am now getting very subtle pulsing for approx 10-15 seconds. A huge improvement on the video you can see above but I’m not entirely certain this is fully rectified?

As for the rest .. the technicians couldn’t replicate the gearbox/ clutch noise, they didn’t find any faults with the rear washer and no one had told them that the trim needed fitting. Fair enough with the gearbox/ clutch and with the trim but as for the rear washer? the thing doesn’t spray any fluid!! I am booked to return late October for a second attempt with these additional faults.

Hopefully all will be resolved next time I collect and I can start to enjoy it as much as I should be able to! absolutely love the bloody thing so would love for it to work flawlessly 

[CraigB]

With the idle fluctuations at start I get similar in my car though it's petrol so results may differ a little acceleration cures it for me and I believe it's due to manifold pressure which is why slight acceleration increases the airflow achieving positive pressure and a good vortex then idle is fine.

Cold starts with fast idle aren't a problem for mine as this increases airflow automatically but start up on warmer days just need that little rev after starting sometimes.

[eye30]

Have they tried resetting the rpm via the ecu such as clearing all data and start from scratch as if new ecu?

Or check the ecu isn't faulting?

[guest11171]

With the idle fluctuations at start I get similar in my car though it's petrol so results may differ a little acceleration cures it for me and I believe it's due to manifold pressure which is why slight acceleration increases the airflow achieving positive pressure and a good vortex then idle is fine.

Cold starts with fast idle aren't a problem for mine as this increases airflow automatically but start up on warmer days just need that little rev after starting sometimes.

Oddly enough I do find the warmer days a little more testing than the cold .. part of the reason I am not 100% confident that replacing the glow plugs has cured the issue. Symptoms have drastically improved though and so I will keep a close eye on it before returning in a couple of weeks to have the more minor issues resolved. I have asked the lead technician if they actually found a fault in any of the glow plugs but (as expected) he is yet to respond ..

Have they tried resetting the rpm via the ecu such as clearing all data and start from scratch as if new ecu?

Or check the ecu isn't faulting?

Not as far as I am aware. I believe they will begin to pursue that route once they have exhausted the more rudimentary possibilities such as the glow plugs, the injectors and the engine coolant temperature sensor.

[PhireSide]

Is there any chance you can plug an OBD scanner in and use Torque or a similar app to see if there is anything changing the throttle reading?

****

I know 'throttle' is technically the incorrect term on a diesel engine but I'm calling it that as that is how it would show on the OBD scan tool

It looks like the engine settles into a rhythym and then something is causing it to fluctuate for whatever reason. One would think that since the injectors were replaced all the air would be purged out the fuel lines, so the chances of an airlock is relatively small.

Is your A/C turned on when you start the car and when the issue is experienced? Turning on the AC on my petrol FD will cause the revs to fluctuate a bit as the compressor clutch kicks in and the throttle body opens slightly to compensate, but the ECU should just allow a little bit more diesel per cycle into the manifolds to do the same on the diesel engine in any case.

[nzenigma]

Have just watched video and got to say I now have some sympathy for the  head mechanic.
 Irrespective of all the mentioned wisdom on Facebook et al  , ... the mechanic is probably ahead of the game and to find the cause of that small fluctuation during a 30 second window, once a day, is going to be very hard.

You say glowies improved the start. Thats a fairly good clue.
After 30secs all is well,  next warm start, all is well! Therefore everything works, injector cleaners etc are going to do bugger all.
 Did they also check the air preheat element?
 Is EGR valve functioning correctly?

END of sermon #657 

Sorry, I've missed the previous 656 is there a depository of such contentious words of wisdom?
[/quote]

In your case MATE read : Suppository.     

[guest11171]

UPDATE: another email from the workshop controller (very helpful guy .. wish I had been dealing with him from the start) ..

Apparently 3 out of the 4 glow plugs were open circuit when tested. All 4 have been replaced. This seems to suggest that the fault has in fact been rectified and what I am now experiencing is just a regular consequence of the car finding idle when cold. Fingers crossed.

The rear washer is to be repaired next time I am in and the gearbox/ clutch clunk further investigated. Should all look normal with the gearbox and clutch then I will be satisfied that there is no fault given that the noise seems to have no effect on changing gear etc, it just doesn't sound very pleasant! They have now ordered the rear quarter window trim and so that too should be rectified when next in. Looking forward to this next visit, should finally come away with the car that I wanted!

[Dazzler]

UPDATE: another email from the workshop controller (very helpful guy .. wish I had been dealing with him from the start) ..

Apparently 3 out of the 4 glow plugs were open circuit when tested. All 4 have been replaced. This seems to suggest that the fault has in fact been rectified and what I am now experiencing is just a regular consequence of the car finding idle when cold. Fingers crossed.

The rear washer is to be repaired next time I am in and the gearbox/ clutch clunk further investigated. Should all look normal with the gearbox and clutch then I will be satisfied that there is no fault given that the noise seems to have no effect on changing gear etc, it just doesn't sound very pleasant! They have now ordered the rear quarter window trim and so that too should be rectified when next in. Looking forward to this next visit, should finally come away with the car that I wanted!

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. When someone has an issue we like to follow it through to the conclusion. All knowledge to share with future members. 

[guest11171]

UPDATE: another email from the workshop controller (very helpful guy .. wish I had been dealing with him from the start) ..

Apparently 3 out of the 4 glow plugs were open circuit when tested. All 4 have been replaced. This seems to suggest that the fault has in fact been rectified and what I am now experiencing is just a regular consequence of the car finding idle when cold. Fingers crossed.

The rear washer is to be repaired next time I am in and the gearbox/ clutch clunk further investigated. Should all look normal with the gearbox and clutch then I will be satisfied that there is no fault given that the noise seems to have no effect on changing gear etc, it just doesn't sound very pleasant! They have now ordered the rear quarter window trim and so that too should be rectified when next in. Looking forward to this next visit, should finally come away with the car that I wanted!

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. When someone has an issue we like to follow it through to the conclusion. All knowledge to share with future members. 

Not a problem . Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be to find a thread with no conclusions!

[nzenigma]

Its good that you are more comfortable with the car.
My previous post alluded to the fact that the fault had been fixed , as you have since been told.

Apparently 3 out of the 4 glow plugs were open circuit when tested. All 4 have been replaced. This seems to suggest that the fault has in fact been rectified and what I am now experiencing is just a regular consequence of the car finding idle when cold. Fingers crossed.

" Fingers Crossed"  Dont worry. Read through this whole thread and you will come to the conclusion that Dazz and Shambles provide a damn good service to i30 owners.

1. You had a genuine grievance.
2. The dealers non-communication was appalling.
3. Common to the webnet you became confused by commentary from motor-mouths with no real experience.
4. As best WE can, from the other side of the world,  we have given you succinct advice.

Thanks for the much needed updates. Happy Motoring. 

 

[guest11171]

Its good that you are more comfortable with the car.
My previous post alluded to the fact that the fault had been fixed , as you have since been told.

Apparently 3 out of the 4 glow plugs were open circuit when tested. All 4 have been replaced. This seems to suggest that the fault has in fact been rectified and what I am now experiencing is just a regular consequence of the car finding idle when cold. Fingers crossed.

" Fingers Crossed"  Dont worry. Read through this whole thread and you will come to the conclusion that Dazz and Shambles provide a damn good service to i30 owners.

1. You had a genuine grievance.
2. The dealers non-communication was appalling.
3. Common to the webnet you became confused by commentary from motor-mouths with no real experience.
4. As best WE can, from the other side of the world,  we have given you succinct advice.

Thanks for the much needed updates. Happy Motoring. 

And I greatly appreciate the help!

Although i'm still not totally convinced that the car is fully happy .. I do get a very subtle (but definitely noticable) RPM/ engine pulsing for approx 10-15 seconds on 1 in every 3 or 4 cold starts. Could this just be the glow plugs settling in or is it possible that there is an issue somewhere else in the starting system?

[guest11171]

Alright guys, so after two weeks of trying to convince myself that the subtle pulsing I was experiencing on cold starts was normal, the issue has unfortunately returned. Upon starting the car yesterday after work the issue was back to normal, notable RPM fluctuations with a very unhappy sounding engine. All resolved within 30 seconds and the car drove fine home.

Having just had 4 new glow plugs from the dealership (due to 3 of the previous 4 being tested as 'open circuit') and with no issues once this has settled what else could we be looking at? surely the perfect idle at all other times would render explanations like vacuum leaks, engine coolant sensor faults, injector damage etc as very unlikely? could it be the glow plug controller/ relay? what would cause brand new glow plugs to continue playing up?

TIA

[eye30]

See #49

Has this been tried/ruled out yet

[guest11171]

See #49

Has this been tried/ruled out yet

This hasn’t been tried yet. They have the car next Friday and so hopefully they will be looking along these lines should nothing else obvious be found. Hard to suggest things like this without sounding like I am trying to tell them how to do their job!