Author Topic: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation  (Read 1059 times)

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #30 : August 10, 2019, 21:16:06 »
Given Firty is now 10 years old and her temperature gauge has NEVER budged from the 45% mark even in hot southern summers, I'd be happy to get either 30 or 40 full synth, whichever is cheaper.
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #31 : August 10, 2019, 21:30:17 »
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Given Firty is now 10 years old and her temperature gauge has NEVER budged from the 45% mark even in hot southern summers, I'd be happy to get either 30 or 40 full synth, whichever is cheaper.
So all the recommendations, charts etc aren't be be used the engine temp gauge is the only real indicator that should be utilised?   Ok well if thats how you feel fair enough. 

My question still remains, in that I am unclear why Hyundai Aust is recommending 30, when Hyundai America has revoked that and said 40.  I'm yet to have anyone even suggest a basis why such a different policy makes sense.

All good. Im no mechanic, just wondered.
And FWIW and with no offence to @pidim , but this is exactly why I have tried to get to the bottom of this - as 99% of folks feel this way - and just do what Hyundai say as they assume they would know best and advise with the consumers best intentions in mind - but I think this is a case where the evidence - actual stuff from Hyundai itself - directly contradicts this - and so a 'please explain' is fair enough.

FWIW I was actually just looking at something else and found this on Penrite's site under their FAQ's:
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Q. My vehicle owners manual recommends I use a 5W-30 grade engine oil. Can I use a 5W-40 oil instead?
A. Yes, in most cases, there is no problem in moving to a higher operating temperature viscosity. At Penrite, we believe that having a higher viscosity at operating temperature (second number in e.g. SAE 5W-40 viscosity) will be of benefit to your engine, particularly in Australian which is considered a HOT climatic environment.

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With all engine oils, as the engine warms up, the oil gets thinner as it gets hotter. The thinner it gets, the less film strength there is between moving parts. To protect the engine from wear, the less the oil thins out, the better the film strength and hence less chance of wear on the internal engine parts. This is particularly important if the engine is placed under severe operating conditions such as towing, competition, stop/start conditions, heavy traffic or operates in high ambient temperature conditions such as we experience in Australia and the Asia Pacific region.

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...when developing oils that were suitable to the warmer climatic conditions found in the Asia Pacific region.Oils suitable for the colder European and North American conditions were not suitable for vehicles running in Australia and were the cause of many problems in some engines


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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #32 : August 11, 2019, 00:01:32 »
Hi Nikko,

That was a great find on the Penrite site.  :goodjob: It certainly vindicates your opinion and concern.

I haven't bought into the argument / discussion as where I live in Tassie it seldom gets higher than 30 degrees and I time my mainland road trips for Spring and autumn to avoid the extreme heat. I haven't ever kept a new car past the warranty period either so I figure if I use the recommended oils I'm covered under warranty for any engine issues. Engine issues do seem quite rare on modern Hyundai engines. 
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #33 : August 11, 2019, 00:09:23 »
I did say to read the FAQs  :whistler: :snigger: also why I use the Penrite PAO oil as it wont sheer under any circumstances  :)

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #34 : August 11, 2019, 00:48:51 »
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I did say to read the FAQs  :whistler: :snigger:
Craig, with all due respect my understanding is you're a mod here - therefore I'd expect a higher standard of conduct from you than an average member.

My point?  Your above post seems to be essentially saying,"I told you so" in a pretty schoolboyish manner - I'm unsure how it was intended to be constructive.......ESPECIALLY given that in my original post I clearly stated I'd been reading through the Penrite FAQs and that in itself has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the actual point I was raising which is 'why Hyundai Australia is doing something that seems to contradict their own documentation & that of oil co's'.

Therefore my sharing the above info/quotes from the Penrite FAQ's is to assist other members, as I've already read it - members such as @pidim etc who as they allude aren't that au fait with the area but are interested to know more even though it seems to contradict with Hyundai's 'use 5W-30 and trust us' approach.

So please if you want to be constructive and talk about the specifics of the oils etc - great, but acting like a child and plunking yourself back into the thread solely to say,"I told you so' when that isn't even actually relevant is beneath you. 

The fact you then went on to point out use of a petrol ONLY oil in a thread that is solely about diesel oil again shows you're failing to grasp whats being said and just looking to IMHO 'play the man and not the ball'.

I'm a very WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) person - and to me it's patently clear you're looking to whiteant me after in my thread asking members for feedback on which diesel additives they liked or disliked, where you bizarrely posted to say 'go read the Penrite FAQs' and 'Hyundai use 30 over 40 as it's cheaper (which FWIW isn't the case nor even what was being discussed): Diesel Additive feedback thread

I then essentially said 'Sorry but why are you posting about another non-related thread in this one and what you're saying is simply untrue (both in 5W the 30 is 37% more expensive, 10L @SCA full RRP ENVIRO+ $123 vs $169 - which is likely indicative of wholesale pricing) ' both of which are I am sorry to say completely correct.

So please you're clearly a very respected and learned member, so it pains me to say this - but it makes it very hard if you have a running monlogue at me carried over and back throughout multiple threads and then when you feel rebuffed think you can come and take digs at me - if I say something wrong tell me and explain why, but don't post up incorrect statements in threads where they don't belong and post smug 'told ya so's' expecting me to defer to your seniority deferentially. I mean no offence but sometimes things need to be said to ensure they don't spiral. :-)

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #35 : August 11, 2019, 01:13:58 »
TBH the behaviour you displayed in your responses the other day was childish and rude as it seemed you weren't willing to accept what had been stated by Hyundai - Penrite or anyone else for that matter, reading back on the FAQ's section as suggested has achieved it's intended goal :)

Now! back to why Hyundai are using the 5W-30, this is due to as previously mentioned...dealerships are required to use oil that is specifically tested for OEM licensing as the 5W-30 is and also why it's more expensive than 5W-40.

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #36 : August 11, 2019, 01:34:34 »
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TBH the behaviour you displayed in your responses the other day was childish and rude as it seemed you weren't willing to accept what had been stated by Hyundai - Penrite or anyone else for that matter, reading back on the FAQ's section as suggested has achieved it's intended goal
I'm going to hope you have the common sense to re-read this and amend this.

If you haven't by the time I've done a bunch of stuff I'll address it and I won't be cutting you the benefit of the doubt as I have up until this point.

I am childish and rude for not being willing to accept what was stated by Hyundai, Penrite or anyone one else?  Thats YOUR interpretation and stance that you wish to share eh....ok.

All I will say for now is the above is a clear confirmation of exactly what I said.   Anyway, but SERIOUSLY......re-read what you've said in this post and your others in my previous threads and think it through as I'm going to be holding you to account for the above ridiculous and again untrue comments, so you can edit your post and we'll leave it at that.

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #37 : August 11, 2019, 01:43:37 »
Believe what you will, I'm not wasting my time or energy so I'm finished with you.

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #38 : August 11, 2019, 02:00:03 »


About time this  forum fired up,

Oh, hang on. that's right , someone will be along shortly to quarantine this thread, feed it to the shredder , stripping it of any  controversy , unpleasantries, immaturity or silliness then placing back on the shelves for public consumption.  :spitty:

I currently use Castrol Edge 0W-40 in my DPF i40 1.7 CRDi   :winker:

Most discussions on oils pretty much ends up  like this thread.

I'm outta here  :rofl:

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #39 : August 11, 2019, 02:25:55 »
I think you have made the point clear Nikko as to why you take exception to Hyundai Australia's policy.

@tw2005   I'm not going to sanitise this thread. I've seen a lot worse.

When it all comes down to it, only Hyundai Australia can really give you the answer to that question.
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #40 : August 11, 2019, 06:09:08 »
Oils are always a hotly debated topic with everyone being an expert on what is a very complex product.
Truth is modern synthetic oils are extremely good quality and all oils have come a long way in the last 10 years as engines and emissions tech has rapidly changed. This has made it very difficult to find an oil other than the recommended one that meets a manufacturers specs.
My own experience with oils in the trade at a Chrysler/Jeep dealer was a headache as I was constantly searching for a single oil to use in all of our product range but it was impossible to balance cost, performance and requirements. I ended up having to stock 3 engine oils 2 diff oils and 2 transmission fluids.
With our own cars a PD SR and a Ford Everest I am using Castrol Magnatec Profesional 5w30 A5 as it meets both requirements  and is relatively cheap at  about $8-9 a litre. On my wife's previous Hyundai a 2013 SantaFe Diesel I used the recommended 5w30 A3B4 once again in Castrol as the Edge 5w30 is $7 a litre when on special in a 10L drum. All our driving is at least 90% freeway  with the extremely rare short trip. I didn't do between services just the standard 15k interval and traded it fault free at 147k.  After sending a sample of dirty oil to Nulon  for analysis at 90k I received a phone call from one of their technical staff to explain the results and was informed that the oil was still well within spec. I asked about changing to a heavier oil like their 10w40 that I thought would be better suited to our climate but he said their would be absolutely no benefit as had just been proven by the results of the oil analysis.

At the end of the day I think we can get a bit over excited with oil and all the marketing claims. So just stick with what the manual says and change it when recommended .
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #41 : August 11, 2019, 06:20:48 »
Thanks Matt. A nicely considered response.  :goodjob:
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #42 : August 11, 2019, 07:19:30 »
@NotaN
 :goodjob2: :victory:
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #43 : August 11, 2019, 08:54:30 »
Agreed.

Hyundai Australia & Hyundai in general have specified a 5w-30 oil from vigorous testing & the many upon many dealer services.
And from, if any engine problems & warranty claims.  I would suggest that they would not specify that oil if it did not meet their requirements.

On the issue on why Hyundai USA released a bulletin on changing from a 5w-30 to 5w-40. That I posted earlier in the thread..
I guess that is something for Hyundai USA to answer. But a lot of guys that are modifying Hyundai's. Recommend the 5w-40.
But that would more to do with the modified engines being under more stress, boost & with them being driver hard. Raced, Drag racing etc.

The quality of oil these days, allows the viscosity to go down.  Years ago new cars had something like 15w-50 in them.
Where now a 5w-30 would give better protection, flow better for cold start up & better shear strength.

The best way for the OP to answer this. Is to ask Hyundai Aust, why here in Aust 5w-30 is recommended & in USA they have gone to 5w-40.

Me personally.  I'm quite happy to keep using 5w-30 & have it changed every 5000k's
My dealer uses Mobil 1. While I use either Penrite Full Synthetic or Shell Ultra ECT
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #44 : August 14, 2019, 18:05:17 »
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Believe what you will, I'm not wasting my time or energy so I'm finished with you.
Well as a 'Mod' who admitted they resorted to taking petty shots just as they got their feelings hurt, you'll have to understand that I'll struggle on without you.

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TBH the behaviour you displayed in your responses the other day was childish and rude as it seemed you weren't willing to accept what had been stated by Hyundai
And talk about some 'do as I say not as I do' behaviour - it was a discussion,  I think everyone else was aware of that but for some reason you feel so self righteous that if a new member doesn't instantly accept what presumably 'you' say it's rude and childish. That on you, not me.

And yes, I have no issue saying I won't just 'accept' what Hyundai says - but I feel there's a good reason for that and it's not without as basis for giving them a 'please explain'.

FWIW the question has been forwarded to their Technical Service Dept and has been with them for several days so it's not some uber simple explanation.

I'm happy to leave this here between us as there's really nothing more to say but if you keep on playing the man and not the ball in my threads then it won't be smiled upon.

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At the end of the day I think we can get a bit over excited with oil and all the marketing claims. So just stick with what the manual says and change it when recommended .
@NotaN much thanks for your thoughtful and well reasoned post - I did try and flag pretty clearly from the get go that I don't pretend to be an oil expert etc - as you're right it's an area that with a small amount of info folks can think they know more when really there's a plethora of other stuff that REALLY is critical to know.  So in short I'd say to you that you're right, use whats in the manual.......but AGAIN thats one of my central points - as the Hyundai manual seems to show that 5W-30 isn't for use above 40c.

So as I've said before - that plus the HACC memo, makes me think it's a pretty fair question to ask and others implying it's not just defies logic.

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Hyundai Australia & Hyundai in general have specified a 5w-30 oil from vigorous testing
Are we sure Hyundai Australia did testing specifically on the oil viscosities?  As I'd be sceptical that they did - I mean Hyundai HO would have done this and I'd imagine it would be incredibly technical and so a regional sub-branch doing this again and for what as no 'special' conditions in Australia - so that would surprise me.  It isn't like the suspension, where they will do to suit local conditions and loudly tout this.  In fact the manual states "FOR ALL COUNTRIES" next to the recommended oil weights....so if they tested just for Australia you'd think it would be referenced, hence I think HO did it only.

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The best way for the OP to answer this. Is to ask Hyundai Aust, why here in Aust 5w-30 is recommended & in USA they have gone to 5w-40.
Thats true and as I mentioned I have done this - posting the query here was merely to get impartial thoughts and also to flag healthy discussion. On face value it is a odd thing to have different policies to such a central matter - as I'm sure the cars are the same (in US and Aus), oil grades are universal and temps are temps.....so that one chose to backflip after these cars being on the market for quite a few yrs SHOWS that the maker can get it wrong and simply trusting they know best is perhaps not the best path of action.  As the 2017 memo states this was for 2013-17 models....so quite retroactive in nature.

Anyway if and when Hyundai Aust replies I'll pop up what they say in full, though I fully expect it will be a very generic and carefully worded - we think this oil is fine, so just trust us and use it.

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #45 : August 14, 2019, 18:18:04 »

Anyway if and when Hyundai Aust replies I'll pop up what they say in full, though I fully expect it will be a very generic and carefully worded - we think this oil is fine, so just trust us and use it.

I suspect you are right.

Unfortunately, if they agree with you and confirm in writing that Hyundai USA are on the right track then it opens a can of worms for them. The PR people who answer these letters would (I suspect) not have authority to say anything outside the official policy line.  :undecided:
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #46 : August 14, 2019, 20:29:58 »
I suspect you are right.

Unfortunately, if they agree with you and confirm in writing that Hyundai USA are on the right track then it opens a can of worms for them. The PR people who answer these letters would (I suspect) not have authority to say anything outside the official policy line.
Haha sounds like you've written to them before yourself.

Interestingly yes it was a person from their PR team (actually in their email signature) that replied - I'd also asked them another query about getting security PIN codes for the replacement key, which curiously they said sure you can have them but you will have to pay a fee for their 'retrieval'. haha now i asked them to explain how there would be a fee on something that is as I understand Australian Consumer law my property as it's the pin on MY car and being that it's held by them how would there be any cost to them to provide it to me and withholding it from me in lieu of payment is borderline illegal....but I digress.

The PR person said their tech team would have to address the oil query - so we'll see....usually as flagged you get the bog standard response thats generated from their standard document database....this gets rid of most enquiries - but what you have to do is basically say "Yeah but can you clarify etc" and then an actual person has to think and respond to you....thats what I'm gunning for. :-)

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #47 : August 14, 2019, 21:00:09 »
Without getting to technical as oil is way more complicated than most think l will say that spec is just as if not more important than viscosity. We have a PDSR so it's a 1.6 GDI turbo. Hyundai state 5w30 A5 oil for this engine and as far as I'm aware there is no oil above 30 that is A5 spec so by going to a 5w40 or 10w40 I  would be using a lower spec oil.
The American document doesn't mention any spec that we can see although they must have a requirements, it just mentions 5w40 and being American they prefer their API/SAE rating system. If you contact the technical department of either Nulon or Penrite they are very  helpful and will spend time with you explaining how oils are classified and when it is or is not safe to stray from the manufacturer listed requirements. Personally I would not pay much attention to any documents from America or Europe as they may have their unique requirements just as we do here.  Hyundai distribution in Australia is controlled  by Korea so I'm sure they think very carefully about what they do or don't recommend and although they like to constantly mention their Australian "tuning" reality is it's all done by a very small independent specialist workshop in Sydney  not a huge factory backed test centre like Holden and Ford.
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #48 : August 14, 2019, 21:45:23 »
The American document doesn't mention any spec that we can see although they must have a requirements, it just mentions 5w40 and being American they prefer their API/SAE rating system. If you contact the technical department of either Nulon or Penrite they are very  helpful and will spend time with you explaining how oils are classified and when it is or is not safe to stray from the manufacturer listed requirements.
Appreciate your reply - as the spec isn't referenced the safe assumption is that it's not changed - and it'd make no sense to go from a high spec'd oil to an entry level full mineral just as you upped the viscosity - so the spec I'm completely clear on  as they very clearly state it's C2/C3 in their manual.

Penrite are very helpful - I've been on their forums and will concur but as a general rule of thumb they will hedge what they say VERY tightly and not stray from the manufacturer's recommendations - as that'd open up all kinds of issues for them.  So even when I tried to ask them with generic examples they sidestepped the questions every time.

Personally I would not pay much attention to any documents from America or Europe as they may have their unique requirements just as we do here.
Personal call but I respectfully disagree as what unique requirement could explain that document and viscosity change, other than them realising,"Umm it gets kinda hot here during summer...our manual actually says we shouldn't be putting in 5W-30, so lets change to 5W-40".  We're both assuming here, so it's inexact science but look at the temp chart in the manual and I'm talking for diesel and on that alone the bizarre thing is that the BEST fit for as Hyundai themselves say,"..consider the range of temperature your vehicle will be operated in bfore the next oil change and proceed to select the recommended oil viscosity from the chart."

Now from that for Eastern Australia and actually the vast majority of Australia ..........15W-40 would actually be BY THE MANUAL what Hyundai recommend. As it's temp range is -15c to 50c.  Which on face value is a much better fit than the  -25c to 40c 30 weight.  I mean thats from their own manual so folks who say go with OEM recommendation, well there it is .

Hyundai distribution in Australia is controlled  by Korea so I'm sure they think very carefully about what they do or don't recommend and although they like to constantly mention their Australian "tuning" reality is it's all done by a very small independent specialist workshop in Sydney  not a huge factory backed test centre like Holden and Ford.
Yeah there is no way they're testing oil in a proper manner actually in Australia - as it would serve no purpose and all testing would be done in a lab in Korea at the same time the original testing was done - more logical, much cheaper and common sense.

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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #49 : August 15, 2019, 02:18:44 »
When we had the Diesel SantaFe I was thinking a 10w/40 would be better than the recommended 5w30 and as the spec called for A3/B4 there was plenty of choice but I was told by a Nulon tech that he could see absolutely no benefit with changing for our driving here in Victoria under stress free conditions. I did tow a caravan to QLD twice and regularly pulled a 6x4 trailer with a couple of dirt bikes though. It had 10 oil changes while we had it with the first one at 1000k and then every 15k as per the schedule  with no I problems. You can have an oil analysis done through Nulon for about $30 which is a fair price and interestingly not actually done by them but an independent tribology lab. I think there are only a couple of tribology labs in Australia and they serve big industry so going through Nulon is the easiest and cheapest way.  An oil analysis is a good way to check on the condition of an engine and how effective your air filtration is.
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Re: Engine Oil viscosity grades - logic vs Hyundai recommendation
« Reply #50 : August 15, 2019, 09:38:24 »
I used 0w-30 in mine, but then again, we have the opposite temperature problem here. Ran better on it than 5w-30 the car came with which caused vibrations in sub zero temps (Both Shell Helix, but the 0w was ultra)
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