[robbo137]

Hi all

Long time lurker here since a few years ago but have posted previously regarding my 2014 i30 SE in past. Somehow i have convinced myself that i need a new car 
My current i30 has done exactly as intended - reliable, comfortable, cheap to own and run etc. I am now in a position where i can more so buy a car that has some of the other qualities i seek - Handling and performance! My current car also has close to 115k km on the clock so it can't hurt to upgrade...right? (please say yes).

I am 98% certain on purchasing i30 N line. For me, I think they strike a good balance between performance, handing, fuel efficiency, safety and tech as well as everyday functionality - I am also Hyundai loyal as before my i30 i had a 1999 Lantra which to this day has been my all time fav car (despite the rear bumper losing all of its paint).

My questions revolve largely around manual vs auto. I've always had manual (i do note that autos have come along way since i was last in the market) and do prefer it however the test drive in the N line manual felt a little uninspiring (compared to auto). I've read threads where the car must be warmed up and after break in they become more punchy etc. The auto did feel quite nice, however it was the premium version so i may have been overwhelmed with the overall feel and ambience of the cabin etc. I am on the fence here - the manual also misses a lot of safety tech such as lane assist, AEB as well as rear air vents and a couple other little things. The manual is, however, around $3k cheaper. I am also in no rush so can wait for xmas sales etc. I will also perhaps be starting a family in the next few years so i am wondering if auto would better suit my purposes... although this will not be the primary family car!

The other thing that is a little off putting, but by no means a deal breaker is the servicing intervals for the N line/SR (10k km/12 months). I do near 20k km a year so my maintenance costs will double with this car. Servicing is still pretty cheap in general so i guess an extra $300 a year to own a nice little 1.6 turbo is a small price to pay! Never could this happen 10 years ago.

Has anyone here gone through the same process of choosing manual vs auto? Does anyone here own either the N line/SR auto or manual and can chime in on what swayed you to go one way or the other?

Thanks all in advance, i appreciate your time and effort in reading and/or responding!!

Cheers

[Dazzler]

Hi Robbo,

Despite having a terrific relationship with the local Hyundai dealer and getting loans of almost all of the Hyundai range (including an i30N) for extended periods I have never actually managed to test drive a manual SR/N-line. I spotted a low mileage SR Manual in their online stock a while back but it was shipped to another of their outlets before I got in for a drive.

I had a PD SR DCT non -premium from June 2017 until September this year and did almost 66,500 kilometres. One of the main reasons I bought it was I wanted Automated Cruise and i grew to absolutely love that feature. The Lane keep assist is also excellent on the SR once you get used to it. The AUto Cruise on my new Car (A Toyota Camry Hybrid) is ok but nowhere near as seamless as the SR and the Lane keep assist is also less useful. 

I'm sure a manual would be a great drive but I think the extra features of the DCT are worth the 3 grand and they are great on fuel too. I ended up matching or bettering the 7.4 ADR average fuel figure for the SR during the time I owned it. I think a K & N air filter made .1 or .2 /100 kms positive difference which helped.

[Pappy]

Hi,

I purchased an I30 SR Premium in March 2018, my first "auto" after having manuals all my life.

Main reason was the additional equipment and standard safety features, and also thought the DCT would be a good compromise moving forward from a manual to an automated car. If there was an SR Premium Manual, it would have been the perfect fit.

Totally regret getting the DCT - miss the manual and intend on getting back to a manual as soon as Hyundai release an I30 N-Line manual with all the safety features (and creature comforts of the Premium) - hopefully when they refresh it next.

This is my subjective opinion and I know there are many happy SR/N-Line DCT owners out there - hope this helps.

[robbo137]

Hi @Dazzler

Thanks for the response, i appreciate it.

I've considered a second hand 2017/18 SR but there aren't too many of them around for a decent price. I think i'd prefer to pay $3-4k more and get into a new car. How did you find the N? I know that it is a different beast but how was the manual for you in terms of fun and engagement compared to DCT?

Wow that is a lot of kilometres in a very short amount of time! i can see how the adaptive cruise  control would be useful but i am not sure i would get too much use out of it. I do admit that i absolutely hate having to break and disengage cruise control currently but these days i only travel longer distances (3-500km) 2-3 times a year in my car as most trips are done in my partners car (hopefully she will be getting a Tuscan next year). My current i30 is the first car I've owned with cruise control and that is still a novelty to me! How do you find the lane assist? Is is a feature you now couldn't go without or is it just a nice addition?

That is a decent fuel figure! I think the manual is rated around 0.5/100 kms better than the DCT? To be honest i love trying to get a good reading but if the manual is more engaging and enjoyable i'd be happy forgoing the 0.5L in fuel economy. I currently get 6.6/100 kms and i havent reset the ECU in around 40 000kms. I know that usage will not be retained in an N line! How do you find the DCT at the lower revs in the lower gears? I've heard it can at times be a little rough? The AEB and rear air vents the auto gets I think are the main differences that appeal to me. Never had AEB before but if you only use it once and it does its job it was worth it. A friend of mine was in a high speed accident and his life was saved due to AEB. I've also thought about how in 5 years when i sell/trade that the additional safety pack may make the car more desirable if in the meantime a lot of these features become standard or AEB is legislated. I'm sure there will still be a market for a manual warm hatch though - but if the manuals add the additional safety features this could become problematic!!

Hi @Pappy

Thanks for responding.

That is what i am worried about as well. I currently love my manual i30 1.8l even if it isn't a performance car. Can i ask what you miss the most about a manual?

Do you think that in hindsight you would have gone with the manual even without the safety features? I wonder how long till a manual comes out with the safety features?! Even if it is next year i could wait - I'd lose value on my trade in but that is ok and to be expected.

I must admit that i don't think i can wait till the Xmas sales to make a purchase as the excitement has been keeping me up at night!

I think I might need to test drive both the auto and manual again soon.

Thanks for your responding guys!

[Dazzler]

No worries Robbo,

I just checked, the DCT is 7.1 L/100 kms and the Manual is 7.5 L/100 kms.  I found the DCT just fine at low speeds although the wife's Turbo Kona is even smoother and more responsive in the 1st couple of gears. They seem to be continually tweaking the calibration of the DCT so the N-Line might be better than my 2017 SR as well.

If you mainly do short trips the auto cruise wouldn't be as much of a benefit.

I have some mobility issues which means being able to control the speed of the car in combination with the auto cruise by buttons on the steering wheel is very helpful. I've had around 34 cars and only got my first auto (a Hybrid Camry) in 2010.

The N was great but for me (I'm 63 y/o this month) with only average health the SR was a better fit.

See my observations on the N here...

Dazzler borrows an i30N for the day (or maybe longer) ;-)

[robbo137]

Sorry Dazzler i meant to write the reverse of my figures with the DCT being superior over manual for fuel economy! That's interesting that you find the Kona DCT better than your SR. I found the Tuscan DCT that i tested on par with the N-line or even maybe a little worse.

Sounds like the SR auto is a great car for you. I've read a lot of your previous posts for general info on them and its great how much you love that car!

I think that for me as well the N would be a little too much as a daily. I do plan on one day having something like that as a second car for the weekends, but at this stage budget only permits for the N-line and i think it strikes a good balance.

I checked out your review of the N - thanks! You mentioned the clutch being quite sporty which i think isn't the case with the N-line manual. I remember the gear box and clutch being really nice - better than my current i30. Space (physical shift) between gears was small and clutch was very light.

Thanks!

[Pappy]

Hi @Pappy

Thanks for responding.

That is what i am worried about as well. I currently love my manual i30 1.8l even if it isn't a performance car. Can i ask what you miss the most about a manual?

Do you think that in hindsight you would have gone with the manual even without the safety features? I wonder how long till a manual comes out with the safety features?! Even if it is next year i could wait - I'd lose value on my trade in but that is ok and to be expected.

I must admit that i don't think i can wait till the Xmas sales to make a purchase as the excitement has been keeping me up at night!

I think I might need to test drive both the auto and manual again soon.

Thanks for your responding guys!

Hi Robbo, you're welcome.

In hindsight I would have gone for the manual SR and saved the significant price difference.

Miss having that "connection" with the car when using a manual and also enjoy keeping my left foot busy. :-)
I also find the low speed & stop/start traffic DCT operation rather frustrating.

I suspect Hyundai will need to have most of the safety features in their upcoming models/refreshes to keep their 5 star safety ratings, but who knows when it will impact the N-Line series manual.

Agree with you, go for further test drives and work out which best suits your needs.

Cheers.

[Blazorax]

I on the other hand love the DCT, I just took the car up Gold Coast for a few days with the family.  I totally love the drive, just put on cruise control and let it run.  Fuel consumption at a total of 5.5 - 5.7l/100km during that 800-900km run.

Been driving manual for 17 years, having an option to go full auto is great - At time where I would like more control, then I just switch to manual mode and paddle away. 

One of the reason why i switch over to this is because my wife can drive the kids around if need since she cannot drive manual

All in all - really happy with my SR DCT Prem - finally done 20,000km on the car after 1 year. 

Really happy.

[Purplehazeffc]

I have a late 2017 SR Manual.  Though I haven't driven the DCT variant.  I'm more than happy with my choice.

I actually think that in the future, as the majority of SR / N-Lines would be DCT. Finding a manual 2nd hand would be harder
Hence it may push the 2nd hand market value higher.
If you enjoy driving the car & it's not just going to be an A-B mode of transport. I would get the Manual.
But on the other hand, if the extra features that come on the DCT interest you & are happy to pay the extra $$.

From the many Hyundai groups I'm in, the main complaint about the DCT is the low speed, stop/start driving.
It can be quite jerky & cumbersome. Though Hyundai may be improving on the calibration?
Best would be to test drive a DCT & try out the slow stop/start, peak hour type of driving.

Everyone is different. But I personally wouldn't go past the manual. The clutch & gear shift action is very smooth & precise

Peter

[Dazzler]

Hey Robbo,

I forgot to reply to your question about the lane keep assist. I didn't use it much initially because it felt a bit like the tyres were tram lining but once you get used to it, combined with the auto cruise, it makes long highway drives effortless. It does a great job of keeping the car in the centre of the lane.

I actually miss it on the new Hybrid. The Toyota version only kicks in after you've gone over the lines which makes it pretty useless in comparison! 

 

[robbo137]

Thank you for all your replies - much appreciated!

@Blazorax that is an amazing fuel figure there! Good to hear you love the DCT and it sounds like it makes sense for you to have an auto so your wife can drive your kids around. My partner can also only drive auto but we are hoping to get a family car (tuscan) in the next year or so (she currently has a Subaru XV). My car will primarily be for me to drive to and from work and for weekend local travels and/or fun.

Good to hear you are more than happy with the car! How do you find the paddle mode? I didn't try this on my test drive.

@Purplehazeffc thanks for posting!

I was actually thinking that it could create a market where the manual becomes a little more niche. I must say that in my run around to dealers only one of three had a manual to test drive and none had a manual in stock on the floor to sell! I've looked at most dealers in Sydney (website) and they are all mainly autos as well.
I think i am leaning more towards the manual - $3k cheaper is also a bonus! It's a tough one because i can see a use for the additional features but i just can't decide if they are enough to make me want to move past a manual.  it's all safety tech that i currently don't have so i guess i wouldn't miss it 

@Dazzler thanks for that. I could see that it would be amazing for a long drive. When i test drove the Tuscan it had the lane assist and it felt really off putting initially. It felt like i was wrestling with the wheel to drive the car!

I've already decided on and researched how i am going to detail and seal the paint for when i do get the car... It's a little sad how exciting all this is.

Has anyone had any experience with pricing for the N-line. I want black which retails at about $30 700 (manual). Without my trade in I'd be getting it for around $27 000 drive away. I've had a few initial offers in the same ball park and yet to go back for further negotiation.

Thanks for all of your responses!!

[robbo137]

Thanks @Pappy

I think I do need another test drive at both. I think I’m also in the same boat as you with my left foot and I am a little worried about the low speed in the DCT. I felt it in my test drive.

I actually emailed Hyundai about the safety features for the new N line manual and they couldn’t give me any further info. It’s interesting that the manual currently holds a 5 star ANCAP rating, but yeah I guess at some point that rating will be compromised unless additional technology is updated.

Cheers!

[Pappy]

No worries Robbo.

Hyundai were able to gain a 5 Star Safety rating for the entire I30 PD range as it was tested in 2017 and the safety criteria didn't mandate any of the latest active safety features.

Strangely though, the I30 SR Manual did get Blind Spot Monitoring and Rear Cross Traffic Detection which were both dropped with the N-Line Manual.

Added: I did ask a salesperson why these safety features were dropped on the entire N-Line series, apparently to be in line with the "I30 N" which also doesn't get them! Go figure!

[Purplehazeffc]

No Problems Robbo.

I would say sales of Auto to Manual would be quite a bit difference.   But that would also be the same, no matter what car your buying.

Hence picking up a Manual Demo may be a bit hard. I was lucky when I was looking. My local Hyundai dealer had a Manual Demo with 3500k's for 25k drive away.

It is a shame that they dropped the Blind Spot Monitoring and Rear Cross Traffic Detection from both the N-Line & N-Line Premium. Even as an option.
But they keep it for all the other models (Auto & DCT only)   But the USA Elantra GT N-Line still keep them as standard..   Strange to say the least.

[stkman]

Good luck with your choice Robbo.

I had a FD cRDi manual for 11 years and 350,000km. Absolutely loved it. However hurt my shoulder and it made driving the manual to work tiresome. I bought a cheap auto Toyota for work and back and it was fantastic. Decided not to replace suspension parts and timing chain on my FD diesel manual and sold it instead thinking I would just use the auto Toyota until I could get a manual N-Line from Australia. No manuals offered in NZ so Hyundai NZ said import one and they would give full warranty etc.

That all changed when a bargain i30 Active (auto) came up for sale in NZ. Ex Sydney, written off in Australia with minor crash damage (bumpers mainly), repaired in NZ, engineer certified and sold to me for less than a 2013/2014 GD i30 with over 100,000 km. This one had 4500km and even smelt new. Thanks Australia. Is now my daily driver and is great. But to me lacking a lot of the character of the FD manual diesell. Have driven the active manual in Australia recently and after the diesel I can't go there. But the N-Line manual I looked at while over in Australia was just the perfect replacement for my FD manual diesel. Interestingly I drove a manual N in NZ and found it too much. The N-Line is a far better fit for me. Prefer the interior over the N as well.

The auto 2 liter i30 is fine, I really enjoy driving it and have fitted a towbar as I do lots of trips around NZ towing a trailer with motorbikes. It will get a transmission cooler soon. Is an easy drive with the auto.

But I will get a manual N-Line one day. It will not be my daily driver ... the auto i30 is just so good for that. I haven't driven a DCT and I'm sure they are fantastic but not sure I would find it as engaging as the manual. And I really don't like the idea of towing with a DCT. About 5000km a year with a loaded trailer on. Including reversing into tight spaces to unload bikes ... uphill as well which the manual diesel handled even though a lower reverse gear would have made it less frantic as I slipped the clutch as little as possible (tended to change with low revs on the engine and release clutch as soon as possible at all times). Something you have less control over in a DCT.

Again, good luck with your choice Robbo, do let us know what you decide.

Andrew

[robbo137]

I was reading that last night actually @Pappy regarding safety testing. Same with the Tuscon i think - ANCAP testing was in 2015 across the whole line and all models got a 5 star rating which if tested again in 2018, results would have been different given saftety tech is not equal across the range.

That is weird they dropped Blind Spot Monitoring and Rear Cross Traffic Detection with the N-line manual. These things seem a bit all over the place at the moment. I was reading that the N is coming out in automatic in late 2019 and they are looking at packaging it with an improved AEB (auto models only). Might be an indication of their appetite to put these features on N line manual models? Interestingly the 2020 Tuscon lower models (Active & Active X) will come with AEB standard with the exception of manual models and their top tier models (highlander & elite) AEB tech being more advanced and including pedestrian detection.

Considering the above you would think that perhaps AEB just can't be done with manual models, however, their Elantra Sport manual model gets AEB as well as blind spot monitoring - while the i30 manual misses out 

I would sooner believe they dropped the safety specs to make up for the additional costs of the interior and wheel upgrades before doing it to be in step with the N! considering the N are bringing some of that tech to an auto model.

I agree @Purplehazeffc  - There are always going to be more autos available for most models on the market than manual. That is a good deal! Would you say 27k drive away for an N line manual in metallic is a decent deal? I've considered making an offer on one of the demos (the only demo) manual at one of the dealers I'm in contact with. Can i ask if you were at all concerned about the break in period for the car with it being a demo? Surely new cars these days aren't as strict with break in criteria?

That is a shame i agree. I was just saying before that even the Aus Elantra sport manual has AEB as well as blind spot monitoring?! It would make sense to either include BSM or RCT as standard with the premium model or at least have the option available. I was reading last night that with the Tuscon (2020 model) now including AEB as standard on all auto models - the price has gone up. Where as previously it worked out just as economical to pay an addition cost for the optional smart sense package as it included AEB + other safety tech with the base model being cheaper than the 2020 model.

Perhaps the N line manual is just being marketed as a no frills quickish warm hatch?

Thanks for that @stkman. Sounds like you got an amazing deal! I agree and prefer the N line as a daily and actually like the interior better. I like a bit of luxury in a sports model and not just plain sports, or at least a less pronounced interior.  I also agree and feel that the manual in N line will be more engaging for me while also giving me more control.

Time to send off some more emails to see if i can haggle a little more before test driving the manual and auto again!!

Thanks all!

[Purplehazeffc]

I can understand why there is no AEB in manual trans cars.  Do they just let the engine stall??  Or come up with an auto clutch deployment??  Which would add further cost.
But to drop both Blind Spot Monitoring and Rear Cross Traffic Detection, which my SR has. Can only be to offset the extra cost of mainly the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tyres.
But also to have them available for the cheaper GO model, but not available at all in both the N-Line models seems strange..

@robbo137 That manual Demo would be well worth looking at for sure..  Depending on how long it's been available, you could possibly able to get it cheaper..
I was not overly worried about buying a demo model. The dealer I got it from always has a salesman when people go for test drives.  Most people don;t abuse cars when the salesman is with them.
Plus the 5 year warranty is a bonus if anything were to go wrong. And I would more than likely drive it harder than any test driver would LOL

I see that Hyundai have their 7 year warranty promotion out ATM. As a sweetener, maybe that could be applied to the Demo...

[Dazzler]

I'm enjoying your journey Robbo. keep us posted. 

[robbo137]

I agree @Purplehazeffc that it would be difficult to engineer AEB for a manual car. Yeah, im guessing the same as you that they'd need to either stall the car or figure out a way to disengage the clutch? What is even more strange is that this tech does seem to be available in the AUS Elantra Sports manual models so somehow they have figured it out but seem hesitant to bring it to any of their other manual ranges. Many other makers have also somehow worked out AEB with a manual trans. Agreed! they could at least have the option for BSM or RCTD given as you pointed out that they are available in cheaper models.

The car i was looking at is new - so it comes to around $27k flat without trade in with trade im looking at about $18-19k. Yeah that's true, i gave my testers a little squirt but not really much abuse considered to what it would get if it were in my garage.. our yours!

Oh yeah that 7 year warranty is very appealing! Makes the car that much more sell-able if going private and being able to provide 2-3 year manufacturers warranty on a 4-5 year old car.


Thanks @Dazzler  apologies to all if I'm going over previously covered ground and/or i am a little repetitive... or if i'm a little repetitive...  I can get quite involved and analytical when making big purchases!

[robbo137]

Hi all

Just a quick update in case anyone is interested.. I've been haggling all week and have just locked in an MY20 Black i30 N line Manual - built in September 2019! I managed to get it for $25k drive away, 3 tanks of fuel and mats!! Pretty happy with that price. From what i could see that is not far from the used 1-2 year old SRs with 30-50k clicks.

It's an MY20 model and exactly the same as the MY19 - so it appears Hyundai will not be updating the safety tech for the manual models until at least MY2021.

It will be here in 2 weeks. Thanks all for you input!

[Dazzler]

Wow that's an amazing deal! Congrats. I haven't seen many, if any black SR/N-lines!

[CraigB]

  Great deal

[Dazzler]

Looking forward to seeing some pictures. 

[robbo137]

Thanks all!

Will put some pics up when it arrives.

Now to play the waiting game...

[CORSHN]

Hmmm, I have never liked automatic gearboxes with a four cylinder engine. I remember having a Nissan Pulsar auto and thinking that it used more petrol than a six cylinder due to the gearbox. I've used DCT cars on overseas trips in rentals and felt they did a good job keeping the fuel consumption closer to a manual gear box four. There is the attraction that a stick may stop a theft because the little criminal can't drive them!

I'm buying a i30 1.6T Manual Nline which arrives in a couple of days which drives smoother than my 2016 i30 SR 2.0 manual.

[Aussie Keith]

DCT is technically not an automatic transmission. It an automated mechanical transmission, but not an auto in the traditional sense.

VW have these across their range now for years, I doubt you can buy a manual any more in a VW passenger car. As someone mentioned owing to electronic management of the gearbox, engine, wheels and drivetrain, so much more is possible compared to having a manual box installed. In our Golf we have a sport mode which allows the engine to rev out and shift quickly. It also has a launch mode which when activated allows for full gas acceleration without smoking the tires. Combine the two and OMG!! Tested once to satisfy my curiosity and no need to do it again. You might argue that you could do all this with a manual gearbox and its true, but the electronics make that sort of outrageous behaviour bulletproof. This car has a supercharger and turbocharger and so much torque revving the ring off it makes no sense. But it can be done like a pro thanks to electronics. Under normal conditions it shortshifts, revs rarely go over 2000. Its truly a Jeckyl and Hyde situation - if you want.

Now that doesn't mean you can't swap gears yourself with a DSG, of course you can. But its no longer a mechanical operation. You are telling software to make the change for you via a paddle or lever which in turn operates all the various engine and gearbox electronics and actuators to make it happen.

Here's some guidance on DCT from BMW.

BMW M Teaches You How To Use A Dual-Clutch Gearbox

Tis the way of the future I tells ya and good riddance to the slushbox. It can't be too much longer before the manual gearbox goes for good as well.

[CraigB]

Manuals are declining but there's always going to be some need for manual boxes, purists will always prefer the manual for sheer driving engagement

DCT's are more problematic with crawling city traffic and towing where standard autos are far better suited, DCT's also still seem to be in development phase...they're getting better though.

I see VW - Audi - Skoda are recalling 80,000 DSG fitted cars between 2009-2015 for a hydraulic pressure accumulator housing component that was manufactured incorrectly, and that's after their last DSG stuff up for a further replacement of 25,000 mechatronics units

[robbo137]

I agree @CraigB! There will always be a place for manuals for a portion of drivers. Some manufacturers have already phased out manuals but they will always be around in some form or another. I think that if you own a manual in a performance orientated car (rather than a Camry or standard sedan as examples), you’ll have no trouble whatsoever on selling as there will always be a demand and they will soon be a rarity. Only 3% of new cars sold in the US are manual cars and about 8-9% in AUS.

[Dazzler]

I agree @CraigB! There will always be a place for manuals for a portion of drivers. Some manufacturers have already phased out manuals but they will always be around in some form or another. I think that if you own a manual in a performance orientated car (rather than a Camry or standard sedan as examples), you’ll have no trouble whatsoever on selling as there will always be a demand and they will soon be a rarity. Only 3% of new cars sold in the US are manual cars and about 8-9% in AUS.

  

[CraigB]

So which brands have done away with manuals? I know Rolls and Jag no longer offer them though most of the market leaders still do, I even checked out a few Merc’s yesterday a200 a250 amg45 which all thankfully still had manual options