[steve79]

Hello my name is Steve I'm a new member on this forum .

i have a problem that i would like to share.   if there are someone out there that can give me some advice.

 I own a I30 CRDI 1.6 diesel 2008. my engine was overheat a few months ago due  of  a hose that had a crack.
 the engine is done so i went online junkyard order a secondhand engine 2009 .i did the  swap.

however when i receive the engine  obviously i got the diesel engine that has    116bhp .
my old engine only have 90bhp

intake was different , turbo , egr was different. since the head and block is the same i choose to move over everything  from my old engine to the new engine
fitment was no problem every bolton , location  it was the same .
only different was my engine don't have a oil sensor. the used engine had a oil sensor under the oil pan,  but i don't think it can have effect on the swap


now the problem the car won't start. i have bleed the diesel,etc..
but i get a faulty code
 P0341 - camshaft position sensor circuit range /performance
           - intermittent

check the wire it was fine, so i changed the sensor. but still get the fault code once i crank the engine.

i have checked the fuel line , clean out the fuel tank container for contamination , changed diesel filter, swap over the injectors twice and coded them, new  crankshaft sensor, checked high pressure pump both had same serial number, the list goes on...

any advice i would be much appreciated, cheers mate.....

[Dazzler]

Welcome Steve. That's a biggy! Way beyond my level of expertise. Fortunately we have some clever people on here that may have some suggestions.

You were brave to do all that work yourself. Guessing you must have quite a bit of mechanical experience.

Our Aussie members will appreciate your use of the word mate. 

I really do hope we  can help you get her going. It is quite hard by remote control (without physical access to the car) 

[CraigB]

I'm guessing you would also require the correct ECU to suit the different engine, or someone skilled enough to modify timing settings within the current ECU.

[steve79]

Thanks Dazzler.  Basically doing the swap is not the challenge part. The worst nightmare  is getting it to run  Perfectly.

Its great to hear other opinion sometimes . maybe It Will enlighten me after all the hour  i have put into the car.

[steve79]

CraigB the used engine i basically took everything from Old engine and installed on the new engine.
Even the ecu Comes from the old engine. But the only thing i have not check its the ignition timing. I assumed both engine had same ignition timing.

When i bought the used engine i did not get the wireloom and ecu . I didn't bother because ECU is not compatible with the Immobolizer.

maybe its the ignition timing thats why it wont fire up.

I doubt hyundai  will give out info on both engine ignition timing or chain replacement comparison.

[nzenigma]

Hi Steve welcome.

First up, I agree oil sensor can be ignored.

 A crack in the fuel filter housing will cause it to suck air. We have a few doing that.

I am aware that the fuel rail on the 2008 is different set up to 2009, so understand your swap. I have not had the opportunity  to do this swap, but most that come to our notice have ended with the owner going back to find the earlier motor.

But you seem to have attacked this swap the right way.

If I read clearly, your 90 bhp ECU must be trying to read a 116 bhp cam shaft. What is the difference?
The camshaft position regulator is probably different in each motor. Check oil flow to it. There is a filter under the plug on RH end of the head (or block  ).  Can we assume the crank sensor is giving the original pulse?

[steve79]

Nzenigma

Yes thats correct the 90 bhp ECU is reading the 116 bhp cam shaft.

Thats very interest info . I never thought about the camshaft position regulator could be different model. I just compared camsensor part number are the same, high pressur pump same part number , fuel presssure sensor also same number.

I talked to hyundai dealer they said both engine internal are exactly the same . Since i still have the old engine i gona compare all the bolt on parts see if anyone of the parts are different.

The filter u talking about . RH side as the camchain side ? Or RH side as the transmission side ?

The cranksensor i changed it also i checked the part number both engine have the same part number.

I will double check the fuelt filter housing again, because last time when i try to pump the housing with plenty of force i saw on top of the filter there was track of diesel zipping out.  Everytime i crank the engine  the housing pump losse pressure And i have to continue pump up the pressure.

Since i do get fault code camsensor faulty. I gona trace down what it could be that trigger the fault code .

Thanks for the advice ... 

[nzenigma]

I will double check the fuelt filter housing again, because last time when i try to pump the housing with plenty of force i saw on top of the filter there was track of diesel zipping out.  Everytime i crank the engine  the housing pump losse pressure And i have to continue pump up the pressure.

Ok check that. Not correct, fuel out = air in. 

Will give thought to other matters later. 

[steve79]

a little update. finally i have pinpoint down the problem.  the 90bhp ECU and 116bhp ECu  have different software. engine are the same, but the ignition timing  are different.  only the 128bhp have different stroke and piston size.

instead of messing around with the engine and remove the rocket cover to adjust the timing and glue back the entire thing . i just emailed a tuner see if he can tune my ECU .   i had plans to tune the engine in future . if I'm lucky car starts and more BHP 

i hope they wont need the 116bph ECU to see what the parameter are. (ECU not my area). if they do, then i have a new problem immobilise problem   

i keep u guys posted.

Have a great Christmas !

[nzenigma]

Thanks for the update. Good luck and best wishes. G

[tw2005]

I'm trying to make sense of this. If motor is physically the same then the internals are the same . If the internals are the same the timing components are the same.

From what I see the crank and cam sensors are also the same. The camshafts fitted to the D4FB are the same from 2007-2012 and that includes the U2 including the timing gears.
This leaves external factors like the Turbo and ECU for the low power version to be different. I know the turbo definitely is.

If you've swapped the entire inlet and exhaust manifolds  and fuel rail, then my question is what fuel pump is fitted to the donor? what was fitted to your old motor? What production date is your car? Prior to Aug 2008?

33100-2A410 was fitted to 07 Aug 2008, also different fuel rail, after that 33100-2A420

I don't know much about the pumps but I do know that the fuel pressure regulator control valve on the later pump is a different part number to the early one.

New model
0928400750


Old
0928400652


It could be if your pumps are different and sensors are different maybe it's not compatible for your old ECU?

I don't know what a camshaft position regulator is in a D4FB Gary refers too but the cam timing is not variable AFAIK.

any images, or PM me the VIN of your car and also the donor if known and I may be able to find a component difference

33100-2A410










33100-2A420

[Dazzler]

Thanks for the update. Good luck and best wishes. G

  

[steve79]

hi tw2005

i did compare the high pressure fuel pump both have the same part number from BOSCH.  i moved the fuel pump sensor from the old engine to the new engin. just incase there are something that are different.

either there is a timing different from the 90bhp and 116 bhp. because here in europé the 90 bhp its a environmental friendly engine and the 116bhp its not. it has to be some difference on the software and the camshaft position . 

i mailed the company that sold me the engine. they told me they have the ECU for the engine, but i recall the ECU  are coded with the immobilizer , not sure if that is correct , anyone could confirm that ?

here is the chassi number for both cars.

my car chassi number is TMADC51TP9J031263

the used engine chassi number is   KMHDC51TP8U052244

i think gary refer to camshaft position sensor .

i compare the fuel pressure regulator it has the same part number also.

[nzenigma]

Hi Steve,

In Australia, the early motors (2007-8) had a different fuel rail and fuel pressure sensor set up to the 2008-2009 motor. That was the problem that I initially mentioned. The Euro models (Czech) often dont exactly correspond to ours ( Korean). Your two motors seem  to avoid that problem.

While Gerard has the HP pump in mind, I have to ask why do you get the seemingly unrelated code P0341 - camshaft position sensor circuit range /performance - intermittent ? 

If you have the same pump , same camshaft ....and now same fuel pressure sensor, why do we have the code?.

Steve, go back , attempt to start, then ( with care  )  crack a fuel line either to or from the rail. Do you have 3000psi? We went through this with a guy who was madly priming the pump but was also sucking in air. No start, no pressure.

Regarding the wrecker's ECU, yes you need the immobiliser and key. Immobiliser reads the chip in the key. Then there is a rolling code exchanged between the immob and ECU.
Most practical, if possible, is to get your old one updated....... but , if you follow Gerard's parts list, to what  ?

Will keep thinking

Cheers Gary

[steve79]

nzenigma

i will try my last attempt this week.   
1) double check the difference with the fuel rails .  i did not swap over the fuel rails only the injectors .
2)check if the cams are the same (hyundai dealer told me it was same) i assume they checked the part number??


if these 2 will not sort the problem. i give up .

i checked online most of the engine from junkyard is 116bhp will that sort my problem if i do get a 2009  same year as mine just the engine is 116bhp ?

it seems like not many wrecked 90bhp model in sweden.

appreciate your help

[nzenigma]

Steve,

understand your frustration.

All things being equal it should fire up, even roughly.

Easy to go down rabbit holes .

 So, please loosen a rail pipe and check that your injectors do have fuel.

Then we can eliminate that.

[tw2005]

hi tw2005

i did compare the high pressure fuel pump both have the same part number from BOSCH.  i moved the fuel pump sensor from the old engine to the new engin. just incase there are something that are different.

either there is a timing different from the 90bhp and 116 bhp. because here in europé the 90 bhp its a environmental friendly engine and the 116bhp its not. it has to be some difference on the software and the camshaft position . 

i mailed the company that sold me the engine. they told me they have the ECU for the engine, but i recall the ECU  are coded with the immobilizer , not sure if that is correct , anyone could confirm that ?

here is the chassi number for both cars.

my car chassi number is TMADC51TP9J031263

the used engine chassi number is   KMHDC51TP8U052244

i think gary refer to camshaft position sensor .

i compare the fuel pressure regulator it has the same part number also.

Those VINs are mixed up

Your car  KMHDC51TP8U052244 built 11 Jul 2007
The fuel pump unless it's been changed should be 33100-2A410
Donor   TMADC51TP9J031263 built 20 Mar 2009
The fuel pump unless it's been changed should be 33100-2A420

Maybe have another look or attach images

[tw2005]

First draft, some interesting results including a little surprise on the fuel rail with your old motor having the reg on the end but the newer car , not. This is one major problem since you have not swapped the. Edit: rails are correct for the years. Over here our early release had no reg, and was added later. Turbos ended up being the same

Your car KMHDC51TP8U052244 built 11 Jul 2007
 fuel pump 33100-2A410
complete motor 110L1-2AU00
head 22100-2A100 , SS 22100-2A350
camshaft complete RH 24100-2A101 ( from 2003)
camshaft complete LH 24200-2A101 ( from 2003)
injectors 33800-2A400
timing chain 24351-2A000, SS 24351-2A001
Pump driven chain  24361-2A000, SS 24361-2A001
intake manifold assy 28310-2A610
EGR valve 28410-2A120
turbo 28201-2A610
exhaust manifold 28511-2A400
piston STD A 23410-2A961
conrod 23510-2A600,  SS 23510-2A701
crankshaft 23110-2A650,  SS 23110-2A701
O2 sensor 39350-2A420
exh temp sensor 39220-27450
crank position sensor 39180-2A200
ECU 39105-2A710
Cam position sensor 39300-2A000
Fuel rail assy 31400-2A410 ( includes rail pressure sensor and pressure reg valve)

Function block and hose assy 31480-2A402
Fuel return hose assy 31471-2A401
complete in tank fuel pump 31110-1H800



Donor   
TMADC51TP9J031263 built 20 Mar 2009
fuel pump  33100-2A420
complete motor 21101-2AZ01
head 22110-2A300, SS 22100-2A300 or 22110-2A350 SS22100-2A350
camshaft complete RH 24100-2A101 ( from 2003)
camshaft complete LH 24200-2A101 ( from 2003)
injectors 33800-2A400
timing chain 243512A001
Pump driven chain 243612A001
intake manifold assy 28310-2A610
EGR valve 28410-2A120
turbo 28201-2A610
exhaust manifold 28511-2A400
piston STD A 23410-2A961
conrod 23510-2A600
crankshaft 231102A700
O2 sensor 39350-2A420
exh temp sensor 39220-27450
crank position sensor 39180-2A200
ECU 39105-2A762
Cam position sensor 39300-2A000
Fuel rail assy 31400-2A420 ( includes rail pressure sensor only)


Function block and hose assy 31480-2A403
Fuel return hose assy 31471-2A402
complete in tank fuel pump 31110-1H800

[tw2005]

I'm not confident the pump difference  is it now since you have our newer rail with old pump unless there is some software mismatch?

[tw2005]

i did not swap over the fuel rails only the injectors .

If so, and what the catalog tells me, does that mean you have a loose connector near the end of the rail at the crank end?

[nzenigma]

Steve

This time ( ) I agree with Gerard that we need pictures of your work.

As I said, the i30s we get here have differences to your EU models. To amplify what Gerard is pointing out...........................Unless there is a screw up in the data; The 2009 rail shown above is what I would expect on the 2007 model.  The rail, reg and pump need to match up.
Also, the loom will be different.

[tw2005]

Steve

This time ( ) I agree with Gerard that we need pictures of your work.

As I said, the i30s we get here have differences to your EU models. To amplify what Gerard is pointing out...........................Unless there is a screw up in the data; The 2009 rail shown above is what I would expect on the 2007 model.  The rail, reg and pump need to match up.
Also, the loom will be different.

Actually, sorry mate I've mislead parliament thanks to old man memory. the rails are correct for the years, the later  one had that regulator omitted, up to 08 Jul 2008 was the older one with the extra regulator.



Bottom line and we've seen this time and time again with no go is when the new rail is left on the motor for a harness and ecu looking for a sensor at the end of the rail

[nzenigma]

Gerard yu is forgived.  I came back here thinking that Steve had mixed donor and old Vin# s.

However, from the get go I thought he had avoided the rail trap and both were the same.

The options are:

 1. Get an 07-08 motor

2. Stay with 09 motor and get 09 ECU etc, and modify harness.

3. 

[Dazzler]

@steve79

Can you hurry up and get this sorted.. All I want for Christmas is to wake up on 25th and open this thread to read you have got the thing going with the help of our crack swat team... 

[steve79]

TW2005


sorry for late reply busy like crap this  2 days.


thanks for helping me breaking down all the parts comparison.    my car is 2009 and the engine i bought was a 2007-2008.

i will go  to my garage tomorrow and snap some picture.    i will double check the fuel rails and the thickness of all the hose. just to make sure.

since the cam are the same i just curious why it leave a fault code also i changed the cam sensor but still get same fault code.

the minute it crank i get the code P0341 right away.

since i took everything from my old engine to the new engine because new engine nothing match up , turbo, intake, manifold, everything was different and hyundai dealer told me the bottom and the head everything its  the same. thats why i took the chance to swap everything over. so the loom fits , the only different is the 2007-2008 engine have a oil sensor and the 2009 engine do not have oil sensor on the bottom of the pan.

also i bought oil filter i notes even the oil filter is different size. but that should not  interfere the car to start. when i crank quite some time. it ignite  1 time and it flat out again.

what are the possibility different crank cause it not to fire ? 
can the stroke be different ?


man, i don't know how much i appreciate all the help from you all. u guys are super.

[steve79]

if i do get this thing fired up, i will tell Hyundai  dealer u guys are sucks ....

[steve79]

here are the old pic when i started the swap. i will get some new pic tomorrow.






2007-2008 engine




moved everything over to the new engine.







new clutch

[nzenigma]

Merry Xmas Steve,

Near midday, Dec. 25th . Gerard (tw) is a no show, he will be filling his face all day. 

Your before and after fuel rail pictures MAY clear up a mystery. 

Above, the 2nd pic is labeled 2007-2008 , but the rail is hidden and HP pump appears to be later model.

Below is a shot of one of my stock. It is 2010 ( same as 2009). You will see the arrow pointing to the fuel rail that is missing the pressure regulator.  The pressure reg is on the HP pump.


 

[tw2005]

Off duty temporarily.

[tw2005]

TW2005


sorry for late reply busy like crap this  2 days.


thanks for helping me breaking down all the parts comparison.    my car is 2009 and the engine i bought was a 2007-2008.

i will go  to my garage tomorrow and snap some picture.    i will double check the fuel rails and the thickness of all the hose. just to make sure.

since the cam are the same i just curious why it leave a fault code also i changed the cam sensor but still get same fault code.

the minute it crank i get the code P0341 right away.

since i took everything from my old engine to the new engine because new engine nothing match up , turbo, intake, manifold, everything was different and hyundai dealer told me the bottom and the head everything its  the same. thats why i took the chance to swap everything over. so the loom fits , the only different is the 2007-2008 engine have a oil sensor and the 2009 engine do not have oil sensor on the bottom of the pan.

also i bought oil filter i notes even the oil filter is different size. but that should not  interfere the car to start. when i crank quite some time. it ignite  1 time and it flat out again.

what are the possibility different crank cause it not to fire ? 
can the stroke be different ?


man, i don't know how much i appreciate all the help from you all. u guys are super.

I have to say Steve, it's frustrating  the amount of misinformation. One minute your car is 2008 and the donor was 2009, now you car is 2009 and the donor is 2007, sure is keeping us on our toes.

2007 engine , oil filter and water pump are different and the fuel rail, and fuel pump. So next time you do a drive belt it too will be different length. Maybe you can retrofit the later stuff to this motor and keep it matched to the VIN somewhat but if other people work on it they're going to get caught out on some of these bits.

Nice looking workshop