Author Topic: Car not starting after dead battery  (Read 1456 times)

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Car not starting after dead battery
« May 14, 2020, 06:15:09 »
Hello everyone, yesterday night my 2009 1.4 petrol i30 had presumably a dead battery. It wouldn't respond to the remote and the car electronics didn't work. When I attempted to jumpstart my Hyundai from my dad's car, when connected the anti theft alarm would go off immediately (probably related to dead battery shutting off electronics and the engine bay being open). In order not to disturb my neighbors, I disconnected the horn and let the car battery charge. I saw the alarm lights flashing for a whil, the they shut off once the battery charged. I let it run for a while and attempted to start my car. Now I got stuck with the problem that the electronincs were working fine, the dashboard lights lit up, including the car with a key symbol and the EPC one, but turning the key in the ignition, did not give any response. Normally, you'd here a clicking sound, but now no sound whatsoever. Having just checked the car again today, the battery appears to be dead again.

To provide further context, in case it's relevevant: recently, my brother and I have installed a powered sub directly on to the battery, we have also installed interior lighting onto the cigarette plug cable under the midconsole fascia and wer have installed an Led bar in the trunk, on the wiring from the original trunk light. After doing the latter, my brother noticed his remote key not working, and soon the whole remote unlock system wouldn't work. We presumed that we accidentally short-circuited it and found and replaced a burned fuse. The car had been sitting for a few days, and before that we hadn't driven it for long distances, hence the dead battery, likely caused by one of those electronics draining the battery. I have checked the calmps on the battery, ungreased them, that didnt seem to solve it.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thank you in advance


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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #1 : May 14, 2020, 07:13:29 »
BCM body control module opens the doors with remote. It monitors locks and if I remember correctly it controls some interior lights also. You probably caused some damage with your new connections. Better to remove them all and see if car starts to work again.

After removing all, check all the fuses.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #2 : May 14, 2020, 07:51:17 »
A sub directly to the battery?, how do you turn it off  or on ?
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #3 : May 14, 2020, 07:51:57 »
Thank you,  hopefully this works out.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #4 : May 14, 2020, 07:53:37 »
It has a small positive wire attached to it, which I also mounted onto the trunk lights. It, essentially, works as a remote trigger to turn on the amp of the sub
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #5 : May 14, 2020, 09:17:50 »
I removed all the electronics, the fuses seem fine, just a some black contouring near the plastic, nothing suggesting one of them blew.  If the BCM were to be fried, wouldn't the einterior eectronics also stop working?
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #6 : May 14, 2020, 17:36:39 »
BCM body control module opens the doors with remote. It monitors locks and if I remember correctly it controls some interior lights also. You probably caused some damage with your new connections. Better to remove them all and see if car starts to work again.

After removing all, check all the fuses.

 :goodjob2:  My advice too upon reading post 1

Now disconnect battery for an hour, do the recharge while disconnected. Hopefully, ECU will reset.

Normally a modern car draws current for 5 to 15 minutes after you switch off, as various functions shut down. Opening the bonnet or door for instance will start the cycle again.
Unfortunately when you hang all your wizz bang shit off the system, it can just keep functions open.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 17:47:34 by nzenigma » »
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #7 : May 15, 2020, 05:48:33 »
If bcm does not work at all, interior lights do not work normally. Also the dash image, where you can see which door is open, is controlled by the bcm. When my bcm fuse blew,  car was not able to detect which door is open. Bcm fuse is 15A. It is in the side panel of the dash. Somewhere in the middle of the fuse panel. Unfortunately it does not say bcm. It was named with something else.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #8 : May 15, 2020, 07:34:23 »
BCM body control module opens the doors with remote. It monitors locks and if I remember correctly it controls some interior lights also. You probably caused some damage with your new connections. Better to remove them all and see if car starts to work again.

After removing all, check all the fuses.

 :goodjob2:  My advice too upon reading post 1

Now disconnect battery for an hour, do the recharge while disconnected. Hopefully, ECU will reset.

Normally a modern car draws current for 5 to 15 minutes after you switch off, as various functions shut down. Opening the bonnet or door for instance will start the cycle again.
Unfortunately when you hang all your wizz bang shit off the system, it can just keep functions open.

I have had it charging while discoonected, but only for 15 min tops, i'll try do keep doing that for one hour.

If bcm does not work at all, interior lights do not work normally. Also the dash image, where you can see which door is open, is controlled by the bcm. When my bcm fuse blew,  car was not able to detect which door is open. Bcm fuse is 15A. It is in the side panel of the dash. Somewhere in the middle of the fuse panel. Unfortunately it does not say bcm. It was named with something else.

Yeah, it falls under two other fuses, i've managed to track that down. I replaced the fuses, but that didn't help either. Also, the dashboard lights up fine, so I'm guessing it's not the BCM. My guess it's either the ECU preventing the starting of the car, after the alarm went off; or problems in the starter. The latter would be too much of a coincidence happen just at the same time the battery dies. Also, we tried pushing the car and shifting into gear, to attempt to start it that way, but it didn't seem to do much. Maybe towing at higher speed could work?

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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #9 : May 15, 2020, 17:55:49 »
The main relay should pull in; sounds like it isnt. I had not realised that the starter wasn't turning over. Dont bother with fast tow. Suspect its ECU thats unhappy.

You get this problem if you lock with remote ( arm alarm) then try to start with a spare key. Eventually the system recovers . However, as you have also been ginning around with those add-on units recheck all fuses and relays (relays are under the bonnet).

When you get the car going, drive over to the Dom and drop your powered sub from the top. Job Done!  :mrgreen:
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #10 : May 16, 2020, 09:55:20 »
Thanks for your response and appreciate some humor  :mrgreen:. What do you mean by 'the system should eventually recover'? Would you suggest just recharging the car and waiting for it to start working again? And in the mean time just check the fuses and relays with a multimeter?
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #11 : May 16, 2020, 12:14:11 »
If the battery goes dead, it will need several hours of recharge. And if the battery is old, it may never recover from going empty. Good charge and battery check if possible with a tester.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #12 : May 16, 2020, 20:03:06 »
Thanks for your response and appreciate some humor  :mrgreen:. What do you mean by 'the system should eventually recover'? Would you suggest just recharging the car and waiting for it to start working again? And in the mean time just check the fuses and relays with a multimeter?

Sundiz mentioned the aged battery. I have found that more recent batteries often dont recover from a full discharge, the way that the old style batteries did.

Re system recover. If there is an apparent failure in the ECU we find that disconnecting the battery for a few hours allows all components time to discharge. Often it will perform perfectly afterwards.

Realistically, you need the system powered to efficiently problem solve using a multimeter.

The start relay pulls in ?
15A start fuse has  12v?
Main relay pulls in?
Have you forgotten clutch start switch?
ICM and BCM control
The ICM unit contains a burglar alarm relay ; if the alarm/immobiliser remains armed the above circuits will not work.

I have a feeling that the latter could be your problem. Connect charged battery after a few hours. Shut bonnet and doors. Use key FOB to lock car, ( lights flash??) then unlock ( flash?) and start as usual. Good Luck
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #13 : May 17, 2020, 04:29:25 »

The start relay pulls in ?
15A start fuse has  12v?
Main relay pulls in?
Have you forgotten clutch start switch?
ICM and BCM control
The ICM unit contains a burglar alarm relay ; if the alarm/immobiliser remains armed the above circuits will not work.

I have a feeling that the latter could be your problem. Connect charged battery after a few hours. Shut bonnet and doors. Use key FOB to lock car, ( lights flash??) then unlock ( flash?) and start as usual. Good Luck

Start fuse gets 12 V, main relay socket, when the relay is detached indicates 12 volt, start relay gives 1.8 Volt when key is inserted and goes up to over 2 Volt on ignition. Key fob stopped working again, so that didn't work. The cable running from engine to starter has not power. I charged the battery over night, multimeter test gave over 13 Volt, so my guess it still works fine.

How would I go about checking Icm or BCM?
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #14 : May 17, 2020, 19:37:40 »

The start relay pulls in ?
15A start fuse has  12v?
Main relay pulls in?
Have you forgotten clutch start switch?
ICM and BCM control
The ICM unit contains a burglar alarm relay ; if the alarm/immobiliser remains armed the above circuits will not work.

I have a feeling that the latter could be your problem. Connect charged battery after a few hours. Shut bonnet and doors. Use key FOB to lock car, ( lights flash??) then unlock ( flash?) and start as usual. Good Luck

Start fuse gets 12 V, main relay socket, when the relay is detached indicates 12 volt, start relay gives 1.8 Volt when key is inserted and goes up to over 2 Volt on ignition. Key fob stopped working again, so that didn't work. The cable running from engine to starter has not power. I charged the battery over night, multimeter test gave over 13 Volt, so my guess it still works fine.

How would I go about checking Icm or BCM?

How would I go about checking Icm or BCM?   With respect, I think this is out of your league.

I assume main relay is NOT activated. ?

main relay socket, when the relay is detached indicates 12 volt, start relay gives 1.8 Volt when key is inserted and goes up to over 2 Volt on ignition.
 You are using a digital meter ? These are leaked voltages without load.

The cable [wire?] running from engine to starter has not power.

The heavy cable is directly from the battery (12v)
The wire is from the start relay to the starter (12v) If you bridge the two of them at the starter, starter will turn engine.

Key fob stopped working again, so that didn't work  :head_butt: what do you mean? Is the battery in it ok? We need to know the immobiliser HAS been turned off.

NOT related to the fob. What does the key symbol do when you try key in ignition? Flash and go out, or stable?


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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #15 : May 18, 2020, 05:32:03 »
Yeah, I understand it about the ICM and BCM, I have a trusted mechanic who could work on such issues. I am trying to problem solve what I can on my own, to prevent towing costs etc, so I really appreciate the help you're offering. Also, thanks for correcting my errors, I'm quite the novice to all of this and English is not my native language. I will try to bridge the wires, it might take me a day or two to find time due to exams, but I'll probably get back to you with a few quetsions if you don't mind.  I've read up, that the issue might be linked to the RFID chip not being recognized, in that case, i presume it would have to be reprogrammed.

:link: I30 - Album on Imgur
The video shows what the dash looked like on friday, while the remote was still unlocking the doors, the picture I've taken yeasterday, with the remote not being recognized.

I've tried the spare key, which also wasn't recognized by the remote unlock system. Since the remote stopped working, the orange immobilizer light on the dash has disappeared. Thanks again for your help, and if in any way I can tip you a beer, let me know.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 05:37:55 by iemandijenier » »
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #16 : May 18, 2020, 19:50:09 »
Yeah, I understand it about the ICM and BCM, I have a trusted mechanic who could work on such issues. I am trying to problem solve what I can on my own, to prevent towing costs etc, so I really appreciate the help you're offering. Also, thanks for correcting my errors, I'm quite the novice to all of this and English is not my native language. I will try to bridge the wires, it might take me a day or two to find time due to exams, but I'll probably get back to you with a few quetsions if you don't mind.  I've read up, that the issue might be linked to the RFID chip not being recognized, in that case, i presume it would have to be reprogrammed.

:link: I30 - Album on Imgur
The video shows what the dash looked like on friday, while the remote was still unlocking the doors, the picture I've taken yeasterday, with the remote not being recognized.

I've tried the spare key, which also wasn't recognized by the remote unlock system. Since the remote stopped working, the orange immobilizer light on the dash has disappeared. Thanks again for your help, and if in any way I can tip you a beer, let me know.

Thanks for the beer offer. After your lock down. :twisted: My Dom reference may indicate that Im quite familiar with Utrecht .

You may wish to read up on the smartra / immobiliser system. That is what the chip in the key is communicating with (via the antenna coil around the ignition lock).
 The video indicates that it is working correctly.  :crazy1: Now the key chip is completely separate from the key fob ( the buttons); that talks to the BCM and once it has unlocked the doors, the only function that is relative to starting the car is the chip.

The photo is perplexing ( total shut down - even the ECU) Normally, if the chip is not being recognised  the key symbol will flash 5 times then go out. The antenna coil can fail - go open circuit intermittently or permanently . Check it. Long shot, but educational.  :mrgreen:



To try and get the car back to Friday condition. Again disconnect the battery for an hour but leave key out of ignition and doors unlocked. Dont use the fob buttons when you reconnect, key chip is all that matters, and nobody is going to steal the car, even in Holland. maybe  :cool:
Good Luck.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #17 : May 19, 2020, 17:26:22 »
@iemandijenier
Mate, been thinking about your problem. The photo of no key symbol on the cluster concerns me. As said, the chip would be operational.

However , put simply, the Smartra to ECU communication is done by a rolling code, changing whenever you start the car. Therefore a thief cannot use another immobiliser unit.

It could be that you have somehow messed with that code. Probably voltage spike when recharging. If you cant find fault with the antenna coil, I suggest get an experienced AUTO locksmith or electrician to help you. Get some recommendations. Check that he understands the electronic system and isnt just a key cutter.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #18 : May 23, 2020, 06:44:04 »
@nzenigma

Thanks again for the recommendations, I've had the car towed and fixed by a friendly mechanic. Turns out the engine and dashboard ecu blew due to a short circuit. I've had to get it replaced and reinstalled. Now the car is back to working condition, short for my multimedia. I'll take it as an expensive lesson to always instal fuses when messing around with the wiring.
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #19 : May 23, 2020, 20:01:03 »
Hoi
Beste nieuws deze week. Blijf veilig, ik hoop dat je lockdown snel voorbij is.
G
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #20 : May 24, 2020, 03:18:44 »
Hoi
Beste nieuws deze week. Blijf veilig, ik hoop dat je lockdown snel voorbij is.
G

WTF ?
Is that something like-said that last week?  :lol:
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #21 : May 24, 2020, 08:47:49 »
Hoi
Beste nieuws deze week. Blijf veilig, ik hoop dat je lockdown snel voorbij is.
G

WTF ?
Is that something like-said that last week?  :lol:

I know what it says...
(I googled it)  :victory:
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #22 : May 24, 2020, 09:00:45 »
Quote
Beste nieuws deze week.

Doesn't need much translating :rofl:
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #23 : May 24, 2020, 17:23:14 »
Thx G, wees ook veilig en blijf gezond!
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Re: Car not starting after dead battery
« Reply #24 : June 01, 2020, 10:45:00 »
It has a small positive wire attached to it, which I also mounted onto the trunk lights. It, essentially, works as a remote trigger to turn on the amp of the sub

I realise the more serious issue of the i30 not starting when it should was eventually found and rectified (BCM and ECU replacement).

However I suspect, for any ones future reference, it could be what caused the initial battery drain... IIRC the BCM controls the 12v (high side) of lights (well I know it did in my old FD - so it could fade out lights, etc.).   Whilst I don't know about the trunk lights - if the BCM did control them and determined when the light should be on by detecting a voltage drop (i.e. a current flow)...

Then, potentially, the 'remote trigger' circuit of the sub could have been enough to keep the BCM supplying power.  And with that being supplied the sub would have stayed on as well... which would have then drained the battery.   All just a guess though - happy to be told or shown it is wrong because it really is a guess.  However I have seen similar in other types of electronics.

'Remote triggers' for subs are pretty common - usually they get connected to a pin such as "Remote Amp" though OEM head-units may not have such.  Though ideally it is best to use such (or similar) - as it allows the head-unit to delay turning the AMP on until the head-unit is on and stable (thereby suppressing turn on hiss or thump, etc.) - having the remote amp trigger connected to ACC (which is a connection found on most head-units) is a likely alternative - as the amp will turn on when the head-unit sees ACC (which is generally when head-units turn on).   'Remote_Ant' is likely less favorable - although I have never seen a 'power antenna' (i.e. powered raising/lowering) on an i30 (so I am not sure if it has a different meaning or is just a 'hold over term') - as in the traditional powered raising/lowering sense this line often only went high when the radio was on (not for other playback).
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