Author Topic: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?  (Read 564 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« November 07, 2020, 23:52:57 »
Hi Members
I've owned a diesel 2017 PD for a couple of years now - never had any issues with it and regularly serviced via a local independent mechanic - though I do the oil & filter myself at 5k intervals. Always use the recommended C3 rated oil, generally 5w-30 but a bit of 5w-40 as well.

I have noticed that the engine oil level has a tendency to slowly rise over time. I've ensured this is checked regularly at times when the engine is fully cooled and on a flat surface etc - so we're comparing apples with apples.  Our daily commute is 2 x 25km in 80-100km zones and the oil goes up about 1mm every few thousand km's.

No discoloration to the oil, which makes me think it can only be fuel getting into the oil supply somehow.

I have emailed Hyundai Australia - who were terrible to deal with - apart from wanting to fob me off to a dealer, they danced around the issue repeatedly only saying a very cryptic,
Quote
Hyundai Australia are unaware of any “design flaws”
- in response to my asking if they knew of any reason this engine would cause engine oils to rise.

Is this something I should be concerned about and take to Hyundai as a potential warranty issue?

From looking into this I've read that it's potentially due to fuel going back into the oil from failed active/forced DPF regeneration cycles.  Which sounds like an incredibly poor design if there's any truth to it at all - so perhaps thats just internet conjecture.

Would welcome feedback and thoughts on how best to approach and handle matter.
:-)


  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • au Australia
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #1 : November 08, 2020, 00:58:49 »
you have a diesel that makes its own oil?!! :Shocked:

..but seriously, if you've happened to read my thread on steering woes you'll see that I got no joy from hyundai or I[don't]care customer care for over 4 years of trying intermittently. they refuse to acknowledge model/series problem issues.
i had a positive fix, but i would have been interested because of my documented ongoing complaints, if my problem persisted or got worse after warranty period would hyundai have honored my complaint.

I would suggest taking it to your independent engineer and discuss the issue thoroughly and try to find a positive outcome.
lots of cold starts...short trips? Unburnt Diesel going down the bores, faulty injector/s or fueling. Get it fixed or you could ruin the engine, not saying panic mode is needed.<-?

You could also do as I did, take your pd to different hyundai dealerships and hope you find a sympathetic ear. I hope you find a solution fast.

my coolant level changes with the wind also rising and falling ass it pleases, to which I was informed is 'normal'. :i30:
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 01:22:14 by ro0sau » »
  • 2015 gd i30 trophy auto diesel

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #2 : November 08, 2020, 02:03:02 »
I would suggest taking it to your independent engineer and discuss the issue thoroughly and try to find a positive outcome.
I'm not due for a service for quite a while - and as far as I can see this would be a warranty covered matter - even just for the investigation of it - so not falling over myself to have to pay a 3rd party to sort this out - when Hyundai is dodging its responsibility.

Quote
lots of cold starts...short trips?
No, car tends to do one return trip a day - so 2 x  a 25km low traffic run through a 80-100km zone. Weekends it's rarely out as we're home bods but if it is its the same sort of trip.

Quote
also do as I did, take your pd to different hyundai dealerships and hope you find a sympathetic ear. I hope you find a solution fast.
The Coffs Harbour dealership is particularly poor - and alas I think the next nearest one is quite a ways off....all that said if it's a warranty issue - which I am certain it should be, I will allow the local degenerates to sort out happily.

I've noticed this rising oil issue for quite a few months now - and have taken to changing the oil and filter myself at 5k intervals - lest it is being diluted - and I've also removed oil from the engine to keep it at the 'full' marker.

As I mentioned, I've read elsewhere that this is a known quirk of this model and Hyundai mechanics have advised oil above the 'full' marker isn't an issue until it's 15mm+ or so - which again could be nonsense and Chinese whispers but seems very odd as by that point the oil would be massively diluted and way under specs.

I've written back to Hyundai's last reply where they basically again just said to go to a dealer - and asked them to clarify that this 100% is a warranty matter - so will be interested to see what they say.

Just curious to see if others here with this model have similar issues. :-)
  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • au Australia
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #3 : November 08, 2020, 04:44:18 »
sometimes i think i ought to just remain silent...
hope you don't take my comments wrongly, I never meant to give a big banana. :shakehands1:

not meaning to come across as some kind of smartass-all I meant was: i can personally openly talk advice with my mechanic freely, without having monetary transaction. thinking it might give you a second opinion to take on board and assist with your warranty claim.

I wish you good warranty luck with iCare and your local coffs dealership :hatoff:
  • 2015 gd i30 trophy auto diesel

  • *
  • Laughter is the best medicine...
  • Posts: 66,844
  • au Australia
    Devonport Tasmania
  • Best Car Forum on the Net
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #4 : November 08, 2020, 05:18:59 »
Welcome Bob,

There has been discussion on here before about rising oil levels in the diesel. I'm no mechanic but some suggest an oil catch can set up or some such thing. The thing is the 1.6 CRDi engine in the i30 has from day one been very reliable and virtually bulletproof if serviced regularly by the book with the recommended grade of oil etc.. So maybe just keep doing what you are doing and rely on your five year warranty to pick up the tab if anything untoward should happen to the engine.

Mind you I have never kept a car longer than 4 years in my 45 + years of driving, you may be different though.
  • '19 Hybrid Camry & '19 Kona Active 1.6 (Prev had four i30's incl SR and CRDi)

  • *
  • Posts: 668
  • fi Finland
    Helsinki
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #5 : November 08, 2020, 09:06:28 »
25km drive is only around 15-20mins with those speeds. Do drive any long trips?   Failed dpf burns may cause issues.
  • i30 cw 1.6crdi -08

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #6 : November 08, 2020, 16:33:10 »
There has been discussion on here before about rising oil levels in the diesel. I'm no mechanic but some suggest an oil catch can set up or some such thing.]
Yes, I think I found these forums via googling the issue.  An oil catch can seems beneficial regardless, but doesn't seem on face value linked to this issue - but I will look into regardless - hopefully there's some discussion on here about them.

Quote
The thing is the 1.6 CRDi engine in the i30 has from day one been very reliable and virtually bulletproof if serviced regularly by the book with the recommended grade of oil etc.. So maybe just keep doing what you are doing and rely on your five year warranty to pick up the tab if anything untoward should happen to the engine.
Yes, this is what I had read about this engine and was a significant motivation to select this vehicle. I've done this but I do suspect Hyundai would find it far too easy to blame the end user for having the oil levels too high, rather than looking at any root cause of the issue that might reside with themselves.

Quote
25km drive is only around 15-20mins with those speeds. Do drive any long trips?   Failed dpf burns may cause issues.
You're right that drive is around 25mins in length a lot of it is uphill. Longer trips are done but they're much rarer i.e every couple of months. Yes, I suspect the DPF is at the root of this in some way or another. Prior to purchasing the car I had spoken to people about whether this drive would be 'self-managing' for the DPF and they felt it would be. Hence I don't think I've ever seen the dashboard indicator for an active DPF burn on. One of the things I've been meaning to do is get a suitable OBD2 module or similar so I can check the engine & system status and also the DPF etc.
  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #7 : November 09, 2020, 04:25:47 »
Hmmm well if anyone has any ideas I'd welcome them - I have searched on here and can only find posts where folks discussed when to take their oil level readings.  Nothing about the oil levels slowly rising over time etc.

I'd prefer to get a bit of info here first before I book in with the Hyundai dealership and get spun the BS from them - so any ideas very welcomed.. Bob
  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 42,475
  • england England
    Manchester, UK
    • i30 Owners Club
  • Ioniq MY2018 SE Premium Hybrid in Polar White with added oomph

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #9 : November 09, 2020, 17:16:19 »
Shambles, much thanks - I'd seen a few of those but the older ones which I hadn't seen were handy as well - I thought they might not be relevant but definitely got a few things from them.

Just thought that it might be a 'common' issue but if other users aren't getting - as I know the diesel is a very common variant. From reading the threads seems that it's a real PITA issue to alleviate and might actually just be 'normal' - I suspect it's poor design &/or software by Hyundai and the likely best approach is to regularly monitor oil levels and change at 5k intervals - both of which I'm already doing.  I suspect going to Hyundai will be a real time wasting exercise as they'll want to eliminate a bunch of things such as leaking injectors etc and try and ping me with the bill. 

Likely impossible to know - but if Hyundai Customer Care tells me within warranty period to go to a dealer to have issue diagnosed - and the dealer looks at the issue, can't find any problems or faults i.e they say it's just failed regens etc - who ends up wearing the bill for that diagnosis?  Is that Hyundai Australia or me?

I suspect they'll try and foist on me - which seems a tad unfair.
  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • gb United Kingdom
    East Midlands
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #10 : November 10, 2020, 10:05:41 »
I've not experienced this on either an FD 1.6 diesel nor the GD diesel, but I think the 1.6 diesel in the PD is different. I believe this is caused by unburnt fuel ending up in the sump due to an incomplete DPF regeneration, but there's no indication light on the dash to tell you a regeneration is in progress. Diesels are just not suited to repetitive short journeys where the engine never gets hot enough for long enough to burn the soot out of the DPF. My regular commute is about 13km, but I do longer highway journeys periodically which hopefully clears the DPF.

It would be better if all manufacturers had a 'Regeneration in progress- do not switch engine off' warning, so that you didn't keep interrupting a forced regen. I would expect a dealer to claim it's your driving habits at fault.

It may be the case that there is an actual fault eg.fuel injector, that is causing the engine to produce more soot than the DPF can handle.

  • i30 CRD

  • *
  • Laughter is the best medicine...
  • Posts: 66,844
  • au Australia
    Devonport Tasmania
  • Best Car Forum on the Net
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #11 : November 10, 2020, 14:13:29 »
@Bob.W ,

Sorry Bob I haven't been as active as usual on here lately. Quite a bit happening in my life at the moment.

Anyway, not sure if you are aware, but while European delivered i30's have pretty much had a Diesel particulate filter (DPF) since day one due to their stricter pollution control guidelines. Here in Australia it was only introduced with the release of the series 3 PD version like yours.

Now the implementation of the DPF in  Hyundai vehicles and it's performance has generally been pretty good compared to a lot of manufacturers. Take Toyota's latest issues with theirs in the diesel Hilux as a comparison.

Unfortunately, as mentioned by many, it is a fact of life that vehicles with DPF need regular, ideally say fortnightly runs of say 30 minutes+ at highway speeds to maximize the DPF regeneration (clean) Unfortunately, car sales people don't always explain this when selling them.

So if you have issues going forward from this added complication you can see how it may fall in a grey area as far as warranty or who is at fault is concerned.

I am, as I said before quietly confident if you keep on as you are you shouldn't have any major issues in the short to medium term but a good run at least monthly on the highway for well over a half hour at around 100kph would/should help quite a bit.
  • '19 Hybrid Camry & '19 Kona Active 1.6 (Prev had four i30's incl SR and CRDi)

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #12 : November 10, 2020, 17:11:27 »
I've not experienced this on either an FD 1.6 diesel nor the GD diesel, but I think the 1.6 diesel in the PD is different. I believe this is caused by unburnt fuel ending up in the sump due to an incomplete DPF regeneration, but there's no indication light on the dash to tell you a regeneration is in progress.
Yes, I suspect you're right. Is that really the case? No indication light at all - oh my thats absolutely terrible, terrible design!  Why they would not have that is completely beyond me.  I've just checked the manual and I think you're correct as the only reference to the DPF at all  - is the dash indicator that comes on when the DPF is essentially blocked!

I am shocked by how bad the design of that is - as with near every other DPF fitted car I'm aware of - they do exactly as you say, have a warning light and it's in the manual to leave the car running when that is on.

 
Quote
Diesels are just not suited to repetitive short journeys where the engine never gets hot enough for long enough to burn the soot out of the DPF. My regular commute is about 13km, but I do longer highway journeys periodically which hopefully clears the DPF.
Yes, thankfully I was aware of that prior to buying but it seems I asked the wrong people - when I told them the drive was 20-25km in an 80-100km zone they felt this was fine to passively manage the DPF - but now it seems people are saying no.  Oh well might have to mix in a few longer drives.

Quote
It would be better if all manufacturers had a 'Regeneration in progress- do not switch engine off' warning, so that you didn't keep interrupting a forced regen. I would expect a dealer to claim it's your driving habits at fault.
Seems completely logical and that the Koreans didn't do something so obvious is beyond me...almost seems like they want folks to stuff their DPFs up.

It may be the case that there is an actual fault eg.fuel injector, that is causing the engine to produce more soot than the DPF can handle.
[/quote]

Quote
Sorry Bob I haven't been as active as usual on here lately. Quite a bit happening in my life at the moment
Thats OK Dazzler, you have a lot of good members so finding help isn't an issue. :-)

Quote
Unfortunately, as mentioned by many, it is a fact of life that vehicles with DPF need regular, ideally say fortnightly runs of say 30 minutes+ at highway speeds to maximize the DPF regeneration (clean) Unfortunately, car sales people don't always explain this when selling them.
As mentioned above, I was advised my drive would achieve this but this appears to be incorrect - thankfully I didn't rely on the salespersons advice thats a very slippery slope indeed!

Quote
I am, as I said before quietly confident if you keep on as you are you shouldn't have any major issues in the short to medium term but a good run at least monthly on the highway for well over a half hour at around 100kph would/should help quite a bit.
I think this is the easiest workaround - do you happen to know of a particular OBD2 module that works with the PD's to advise the DPF's status i.e % full of soot?

I might contact Hyundai Australia and see what their current advice on DPF management is - I am sure it'll be nothing useful but we'll see.

And it seems there's really no way of easily knowing when an active/forced DPF burn is underway?  That really is POOR - I'm in the RFS here and even our oldish trucks let us know when they're doing this and my mate's Citroen has had this for many years.

And the only way to initiate one is by using the GDS software & equipment that Hyundai (or good mechanics) use when servicing the car?  I think thats pretty pricey stuff from what I recall.

Thanks again for your help guys, invaluable.

  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • gb United Kingdom
    East Midlands
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #13 : November 12, 2020, 04:56:09 »
Providing indication that DPF regeneration is in progress would be a PR disaster as it would highlight to the owner that their car is consuming excess fuel just to clean out the DPF. Having to make unnecessary highway journeys also defeats the point of getting a car with good fuel economy. A friend with a Vauxhall diesel uses a diagnostic tool plugged into the OBD port, which they use to monitor the state of the DPF. I think they can also use it to force a regeneration, so it can be done at a convenient time.
  • i30 CRD

  • *
  • Author
  • Posts: 7
  • au Australia
    Coffs Harbour
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #14 : November 16, 2020, 17:45:28 »
Providing indication that DPF regeneration is in progress would be a PR disaster as it would highlight to the owner that their car is consuming excess fuel just to clean out the DPF.
I'd have to disagree - I was pretty sure that many other makers had this as a common dashboard indicator/icon on their DPF fitted vehicles. I've not driven many but I know that our Isuzu trucks at the RFS have this and have a few friends with french cars and they say theirs has it as well. I can't imagine it'd be more of a PR disaster than having either the DPF die prematurely or checking one's oil level to find that it's oddly way above the full level with no explanation or assistance forthcoming from Hyundai.

Quote
Having to make unnecessary highway journeys also defeats the point of getting a car with good fuel economy.

100% agree - a lot of bad info out there about what it realistically takes to passively manage a DPF fitted car i.e not do those extra drives or have the ECU run a DPF regeneration. Dealers will not tell you any of this, even if you ask them - heck check Hyundai Australia's website and there is not a single mention of DPF's on it at all!

Quote
A friend with a Vauxhall diesel uses a diagnostic tool plugged into the OBD port, which they use to monitor the state of the DPF. I think they can also use it to force a regeneration, so it can be done at a convenient time.
Thats logical and I wish there was some way of monitoring the DPF condition/% on the i30 PD - from what I've read none of the consumer grade OBD2 devices will give this info.

Any ideas on how to monitor it at all?     Seems that it's only doable via the hyundai GDS system or similar. 

I've asked Hyundai Customer Care to advise but they're honestly disgustly bad - they just ignore questions and give you responses that are in no way helpful - honestly they're by far THE worst after sales service I have ever had the misfortune to deal with.
  • 2017 PD 5 door hatch, diesel 1.6lt, auto

  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Rising engine oil level in diesel PD?
« Reply #15 : November 22, 2020, 07:15:59 »
Having the same issue since I bought it (30 k km ago )

I look for a solution for this since the begging. I'm somehow already used to this idea. The engine runs fine but 10 mm above F grade  :crazy2: it's not a good thought to ride around sort to speak  :victory: And I'm successfully finishing all regens when they start (I think  :mrgreen:)

Usual when regen starts, the only thing you might observe is the instant consumption going up when you are not on the acceleration. What's crazy about these regens is that they happen every ~ 80 km's. Beat that  :crazy1:

Some 6 months ago I did a forced regen in a Hyundai dealership and they seem to be using a Delphi tester (not the GDS system Hyundai uses).Plugged in by USB and leaved the car running @ 2000 rpm around 20 minutes. The tester stated that I've had my DPF not clogged at all (the tester indicated around 4 grames).That was it. After a very shot while the oil started to rise again. Just like before.   
Assuming that this isn't a electric/mechanical/sensor type issue, I'll just keep changing the oil 2 times per year and hope everything will be running ok.

 


anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal