Finally resolved: Creaking noise in the brakes 2010 i30cw

[pearj]

TLDR;

Any idea what is causing the creaking sound in the attached sound file? And is it safe to drive?

Hi,

I have this annoying creaking sound in the brakes.  I have attached a short recording of the sound.  I am rolling downhill at about 2 or 3 km/h.

I have taken it to the dealer 2 times now, the first time they replaced the link bar assembly (about $400 after installation) with the excuse that as you are braking the suspension compresses hence the creaking. I wasn't totally sold, but it wasn't until I drove the car off that I noticed it made zero difference.  So today I finally got it back in for another look, this time I had got a tech in the car the previous week to hear the noise, so I thought they would actually fix it this time, but no.  They said the calliper pins were dry, so they cleaned and lubricated the calliper pins. "Road tested no fault at time of testing" they said, however, they actually made it worse, it's actually a lot louder than it has been previously. 

Before I picked up the car, I quizzed the dealer on what was fixed this time, and why lubricating the callipers actually should fix the problem.  He told me that most rotors are a bit warped, so they wobble a bit, and that each wobble would put pressure against the callipers and if they're dry that would be the creaking sound.  In theory that sounded plausible to me, however, it didn't do anything.

A bit more history here, last November I drove interstate from Canberra to Melbourne (~700km), and while in Melbourne the brakes got stuck on. I got the dealer to service the car a few days before the trip, and they didn't replace brake pads because they didn't have them in stock, and they didn't even tell me they were low (their records said 3mm),  and I ended up with metal on metal. So in Melbourne, I had to get the rotors machined and new brake pads.

However, I eventually wrote the dealer a letter complaining about them not servicing the car properly and they ended up paying for the new brake pads and machining and they suggested that potentially the tech didn't check both pads, as one pad was a fair bit more worn than the other.

Walking outside the car it seems like the noise is coming from the left brakes (front passenger), which is also the side that had the brakes stuck on, so I'm wondering if the callipers have sustained some permanent damage (although the creaking sound is a few months old, they were fine for a solid 4 months since the incident)

[tw2005]

I did not find that audio file useful or make out anything other than rumble.

Could you post an image of the paperwork for the "replaced the link bar assembly (about $400 after installation) "

I'd love to see that to be sure what it is.

I'm thinking the swaybar links. If so they should be in jail @ $400 but interested to see if additional work related was done. I would not expect the links to creak but knock with wear.

The brake issue may be totally unrelated to this noise. What makes you think it's the brakes creaking and not a suspension component under load?

Two areas to check.

1. The sway bar bushes. Over time  they become hard, rubber components age and deteriorate. I've replaced these on 2 of mine, one as it warmed up made lot of binding/creaking  overbumps, speed humps would exaggerate it. The other was hard but flogged out so the sway bar thumped and knocked.

2. Check the front control arm bushes in particular the small inner ones. They split and can separate within the bushing. When they do depending on how bad they get can creak and or get lateral movement in the arm under braking.

Signs of that will be tyre wear issues on inner edges and also a slight change in vehicle direction under braking or changes in the road camber may cause the car to wander.

I had one so bad would pull left on braking and over taking as I crossed the crest of the road, one moment it would pull left then it would pull right.

2mm is normally min for the pads but if they were seized, most definitely you would have one pad worn more usually the inner I'd think.

I always thought modern pads has squealers or scrapers fitted at the 2mm point to warn of low pads.

Could be time to find a good private mechanic you can trust.

If it was just these they did for $400



Then I can't wait to see their pricing. Up on a hoist, rattle gun, wheels off, remove / replace those links a pro would have it done in 15 mins. If it was done on it's own I'd think an hours labour but if the vehicle was getting routine service, it's very little additional work if it was up in the air already.

If they can't check the pads correctly, what else are they skimming over?

Any donkey can change oil.  It's the safety checks and items that are often forgotten like brakes , bushings, steering components leaks etc that you get a pro to do it for. Basically to watch out for you.

Out of curiosity, what distance has the car done?

[tw2005]

Just had another thought. I do remember something like this on our old MAGNA. It had reasonably low k's and it was dealer serviced at the time. I don't know what made me check this but I found the guide pins were seized and had corroded. I suspect deep water  and ingress may have caused it.

anyway it may have been later on in it's life, but i never replaced the pins, in hindsight should have but I think  I recall hearing a knock or rattle over bumps, may have creaked on application but one caliper had enough wear on the pins for the caliper to have some play in it. Found that by giving the tyre a kick and replicating the noise. held the caliper and noise went.

Not saying that's what you have but if it seized the pins, if they were corroded and pitted and there's excess clearance with pin and guide, it may make a noise.

I think bushes are more likely but I've only ever come across a knocking caliper like that in that case.

[nzenigma]

when reading the initial owner/dealer relationship story, anyone new to this section would say unbelievable.

Unfortunately, it is a common story that tw and I have heard too often.

Why do people go near dealerships 

Ok if it helps, this would seem to be a load bearing component. I would look at lower control arm; 1. ball joint, 2. the two bushes.

If you cant do this yourself, PLEASE find an experienced independent mechanic.

[pearj]

I did not find that audio file useful or make out anything other than rumble.

The full audio recording I made is here maybe the extra creaking in context will be easier to hear.

Could you post an image of the paperwork for the "replaced the link bar assembly (about $400 after installation) "

I'd love to see that to be sure what it is.

I'm thinking the swaybar links. If so they should be in jail @ $400 but interested to see if additional work related was done. I would not expect the links to creak but knock with wear.

Swaybar links sounds right.  It looks like they charged an hour of time, and each one was a bit over $100.  Nothing else was done at the time. I think they literally opened up the car found something worn, replaced it and said it's fixed.

The brake issue may be totally unrelated to this noise. What makes you think it's the brakes creaking and not a suspension component under load?

I think it's the brakes because the noise seems in time with the rotation of the wheels, ie if I'm going faster the creaking is faster and when I'm slower the creaking is slower.  And I figure at 1-2 km/h rolling downhill you wouldn't expect to hear suspension noise, as the car wouldn't really be dipping in any significant way.

To me it seems like the disc is wobbling and brushing up against something, but the dealer seems to think it's all fine in the braking system.

Out of curiosity, what distance has the car done?

The car has done almost 140,000 km

Why do people go near dealerships

Why are dealerships bad? Don't they need to uphold the reputation of the brand?

If you cant do this yourself, PLEASE find an experienced independent mechanic.

I've had a few people suggest finding a good mechanic, but how do I go about finding a good one? How do I know that I won't just get the same poor service that I get from a dealership?  Or is it because if they're not working at a dealership, then their livelihoods live and die by their reputation?

[nzenigma]

Has anyone thought to change wheel left to right?  In the past I have had a rim that creaked. Strange but true.

"Why are dealerships bad? Don't they need to uphold the reputation of the brand?"

"I've had a few people suggest finding a good mechanic, but how do I go about finding a good one? How do I know that I won't just get the same poor service that I get from a dealership?"


 We give our time and advice freely. I have said this sort of case and dealer rhetoric is common knowledge to tw2005 and me. I have been in the motor industry for 40 odd years.
But, I cant lead a donkey to water.

[Dazzler]

@pearj

Hi There!

There are good dealer service departments out there, but unfortunately a lot of them are large with high overheads which need to be passed on to the customer and sometimes a less than experienced apprentice may be used which can result in a poor diagnosis. From experience on here a lot of dealerships can't find faults unless a fault code has been generated something which isn't going to happen with something like this.

Smaller independent mechanics generally have lower overheads (which may relate to a lower hourly rate) and are generally more hands on.  If you can find an old school one (via word of mouth or google reviews) with the same ethics as @tw2005 (Gerard) or @nzenigma (Gary) then you are more likely to get this sort of issue fixed the first time at a lower cost.

[tw2005]

Can't help you  with the links now but just to amplify the level of "extortion" on OEM  parts  there can be, a pair of those links , 100% OEM can be had for $60 delivered or a full set, front and back $100.


Anyway, had a listen to that file. Sounds rotational, I hear a tiny creak right at the end otherwise sounded like rotors scraping the pads. or pads scraping the rotor. The pads are always just brushing the rotor which is normal, they self adjust that way as the pad wears.


There's always some runout of the rotor. But it's meant to be  very small, and you should not feel any vibration or pulsing as you brake. If you did then that would indicate the rotors are warped.

I can't analyse it any more, was that audio just coasting, no brake application?

Can you hear this whilst driving?

[pearj]

I can't analyse it any more, was that audio just coasting, no brake application?

Can you hear this whilst driving?

Ahh should of mentioned that. This sound only happens whilst the brake is being applied. In this case it was being applied very lightly so that the car is just creeping forward.

[nzenigma]

Can you hear this whilst driving?

Ahh should of mentioned that. This sound only happens whilst the brake is being applied. In this case it was being applied very lightly so that the car is just creeping forward.

    

Dont need a mechanic, this is simple a DIY ( do it yourself) test.

Jack up car so BOTH front wheels are off the ground. Use 2 jacks or stands. Hand brake applied.

With car in first gear, ( engine running) > (wheels turning) > apply brakes.

Does the noise still occur?

If so, take left wheel off, ( "off tool" comes with the jack)> and visually watch for brake and rotor movement.

[tw2005]

I can't analyse it any more, was that audio just coasting, no brake application?

Can you hear this whilst driving?

Ahh should of mentioned that. This sound only happens whilst the brake is being applied. In this case it was being applied very lightly so that the car is just creeping forward.

I'm starting to think there is no problem. If that's all that is heard at that volume with pads dragging on the rotor. The pads could even just be making a noise just at the bite point before they stop.

Ever  hosed the car down and crept out with the brakes on and had horrible groaning , shudders as they dry at very low speed in reverse.

Maybe a second opinion but you could be throwing good money at something trivial. If there was any performance or safety issue with the brakes, I can't see them letting you have the car to drive.

[pearj]

Just a follow up on my post from 2019 (I think it's too old to reply to it anymore): Creaking noise in the brakes 2010 i30cw

The dealer today replaced my driver's side right calliper for free and replaced all discs and brake pads for free at my last service in November 2020 too.

I had taken the car in November 2019 with the same braking noise, and they just lubricated the callipers and it lasted 2 weeks.  When I finally bothered to try again in November 2020 the driver's side right calliper had actually seized. They said it was rusted, the passenger side was apparently fine.

So I must say I was quite surprised the dealer actually did anything for free in the end, although it took an extraordinary amount of effort to convince them to do anything. I guess I was just lucky the brake happened to be seized during the Nov 2020 service (and lucky it wasn't dangerous to me!).

The strange thing in all this is that the original problem when the brakes initially seized in Nov 2018, the Melbourne dealer told me it was the passenger side front calliper. I tried to convince my dealer to replace both front callipers at their cost, but they only wanted to replace the seized one (drivers side front). I guess I just have to take what I can get!

[Shambles]

Thanks for coming back and updating

Just a follow up on my post from 2019 (I think it's too old to reply to it anymore)

I'll merge it in