Author Topic: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)  (Read 44192 times)

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #30 : November 02, 2010, 07:54:56 »
Welcome Mooglen..

Are you a Hyundai Technician..?
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #31 : November 02, 2010, 08:10:50 »
I notice from other forums, that owners have had fuse replaced/checked out OK & still have same problem.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #32 : November 02, 2010, 09:31:58 »
Could you (with the help of the pic. below) locate the thing you were talking about.
Just say in which area..1., 2. or 3.? Thanks


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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #33 : November 02, 2010, 16:46:21 »
Could you (with the help of the pic. below) locate the thing you were talking about.
Below 1 and not as far back as 3.

Stand in front of the car and lean over the (switched off!) engine. You don't need to take the plastic cover off (at least on the U2) to see the wiring and the first glowplug.

You can only see one of the glowplugs as the other three are (presumably) under a heatshield to the right of it there. I've just tried to take a picture of the one showing but its hard to get the camera in there (and its dark). If you lean over the engine you can see down a hole into the heatshield to see the one plug, and its easy to imagine where it might ground on the shield.

On mine the wiring to the first plug says "GLOPLUG" in big writing  :mrgreen:

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #34 : November 02, 2010, 17:18:30 »
Some of the pics came out ok:

Relay box showing 80A Fuse and 70A Relay. (Think they got that the wrong way around, the fuse should protect the relay!) The fuse has a small lense on the top so can be visually inspected without the need for removal or a multimeter.



I'm kinda suprised at the ratings, as GSW indicates 4 glowplugs could draw as much as 100A. Probably out of date info.

This one shows the wiring connector that goes to the glow plugs. I'm still sure there is 4 there, even though its only the first one thats visible.



And finlly the only pic that came out of the plug itself. You can see where the heatshield could potentially cause an accidental earth to the plug. I'm sure water here would cause a prioblem, but the proximity to exhaust and DPF would sort that.



Keep in mind this is a U2, so if anyone has a U variant things will look a little different.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #35 : November 03, 2010, 09:52:00 »
It looks like the number of CRDI owners with glowplug issue is increasing...
Month or so ago I noticed that car (i30CW 1.6CRDI, BlueDrive) emits a lot of smoke on startup in the morning (-5C at night). Booked it in for a check. First time they didn't find anything. Next time I left it overnight at the service for the engine to cool down. They found out that two glow plugs has burned out. Now waiting for replacement plugs to arrive.

Now the fun part. The guy at the service said that glow plugs aren't covered by warranty. Well, I'm not going to pay for them. The car has only 15000km, so it's definitely not a normal wear. My parents' Mazda had original glow plugs after 25 years and 500 000km. And it started in -25C just fine...

Ah, BTW, can anybody advice where I can find original warranty text? I want to find out what is covered by it and what is not. Service book in my car is from older model.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #36 : November 03, 2010, 10:04:25 »
They are not specifically mentioned in the UK warranty statement. My guess would be a dealer would replace them under warranty in the first year, and anything after that would argue they are a wear and tear item.

I'd counter-argue if they are subject to wear and tear why are they not included in the service schedule. Could be tricky.

The glowplugs would definitely get used more in colder climates. According to the tech specs at -10c they should stay on for 16 seconds. I've never seen it on for more than a few seconds.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #37 : November 03, 2010, 13:59:26 »
Dealer has checked my fuse & all ok, but car still smokes

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Re: Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #38 : November 03, 2010, 14:22:36 »
Do you know if they checked the relay too? They would need to take it out and check with a meter

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Re: Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #39 : November 03, 2010, 14:25:28 »
They would need to check the resistance of each plug too. Gsw has a detailed fault finding procedure with pictures for potential glow plug faults

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #40 : November 03, 2010, 15:21:44 »
ok car been at dealer last 2 days,they have experienced fault,but it got them beat,they did not want to send to derv expert as if no fault found hyundai no pay,so im having to initially pay to get things moving and might get reimbursed depending on what they find,not good on a 60 reg car in manu warranty,i will advise them the above

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #41 : November 03, 2010, 15:22:43 »
Dealer has checked my fuse & all ok, but car still smokes

This issue is becoming quite frustrating!  :mad:
I have to be very happy that it was solved for me with just two trips to the dealer. Both times I left the car overnight so they could diagnose with a morning start. As I mentioned the first time they found the fuse to be faulty and by replacing this the problem was fixed, however it was not long before it reoccurred!
The fuse had failed again indicating there was a further issue and as it turned out it was one of the glow plugs shorting on the cylinder head. Lorian's picture of the 'Potential problem' probably shows best how this may happen.
As the smoke is essentially the result of unburnt fuel being forced out of the exhaust this, to me, indicates the glow plugs are not heating correctly. If the plugs have been replaced, which I understand has been the case in your car, this would eliminate these leaving the fuse or the relay as these are the gateway to providing power to the glows plugs allowing them to function.
Taking Lorian's suggestion I would definitely have the dealer test and verify the 'Relay' as well as the resistance across the plugs! Hope this is solved for you soon :)

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #42 : November 03, 2010, 16:10:36 »
If they continue to have problems diagnosing you might nudge them towards

GSW -> Shop Manual ->20xx -> D 1.6 U2 -> Engine Electrical System -> Preheating System -> Repair Procedure

Although one hopes they know about the documentation and have done the three sets of tests. (plugs, fuse and relay).

If they relay is faulty then the ECU should detect it and record a fault P0670

If one/more plugs fail short circuit the fuse should blow. Failing open might get un-noticed by the ECU I think.

Keep in mind I'm not an expert.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #43 : November 03, 2010, 16:37:21 »
ok car been at dealer last 2 days,they have experienced fault,but it got them beat,they did not want to send to derv expert as if no fault found hyundai no pay,so im having to initially pay to get things moving and might get reimbursed depending on what they find,not good on a 60 reg car in manu warranty,i will advise them the above

Gee m8 I'd be peeved.. I understand the position the dealer is in but I don't recall that ever happening in Oz where you have to pay upfront pending a ruling by the manufacturer  :rolleyes: ( this obviously a car fault not a user fault)  :eek:
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #44 : November 03, 2010, 16:44:44 »
and as it turned out it was one of the glow plugs shorting on the cylinder head. Lorian's picture of the 'Potential problem' probably shows best how this may happen.

I think the end of the heatshield from the DPF is closer than the head and the most likely thing to touch. If that's the case this could be something most specific to UK/european cars produced since July 2009 (U2s). This is pure conjecture of course.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #45 : November 05, 2010, 06:33:04 »
It just gets better, G/F had good converstion with dealer principle, who said smoke to be expected because of choke, g/f knew this was BS as she had old d reg uno which had a choke, g/f said loan car must be faulty then as no smoke, dealer p went quiet, service manager called to confirm car gone to expert so they can have a good look at it, but also said he would advise dealer p that diesel's dont have chokes, g/f rightly said he not in a position to make comments about stuff he does not understand, dealer p also said when he personally started car all was ok which when it warm all is OK, but service manager confirms he has seen the fault, talk about poor communication.
Roll on tuesday for the report.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #46 : November 05, 2010, 06:36:11 »
This is a shame Sooty  :'(

Stupid things like this that happening to you take the edge off what is a really exceptional car for this class... :cool:
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #47 : November 05, 2010, 09:03:50 »
good converstion with dealer principle,

Where should we steer clear of if we want warranty issue sorted?
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #48 : November 05, 2010, 11:52:57 »
When this saga is over, I will name & shame the dealer.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #49 : November 05, 2010, 11:54:00 »
I think when I take my car to be serviced next month I'm going to have to stay and watch :exclaim:

Here is the principle, and his choke


Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #50 : November 07, 2010, 08:35:41 »
lol

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #51 : November 08, 2010, 07:35:09 »
Is there some kind of heating device in the inlet manifold, car a derv expert, but the bloody this has not smoked, not the cold, but car has smoked for us on more than one occassion when it has been at this temp.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #52 : November 08, 2010, 07:57:51 »
I think I understood what that meant. It's pretty chilly today, I'd have thought it would have smoked for sure when the engine was cold if the glowplugs weren't working.

I can sense your frustration as you typed, not quite sure what you meant about the heating device, the glowplugs are the heating devices.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #53 : November 08, 2010, 08:32:07 »
Pre heat system (glow plugs) all OK, derv expert spoken to hyundai who mentioned inlet manifold pre heat system, i cannot believe my luck, when it colder the 8 degrees, car would always smoke, all of a sudden, UK weather warm for time of year (over 8 degrees) but even so, car would some times smoke, but nothing now.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #54 : November 08, 2010, 09:27:33 »
It's only about 6 or 7c here at the moment, and feels colder.

I'll be interested to hear about the manifold pre-heat system, as the only pre-heating system I can see in their documentation are the glow-plugs.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #55 : November 08, 2010, 13:28:48 »
New one on me and I've had mine for 3 years without smoke!!!!
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #56 : November 09, 2010, 11:32:30 »
Ok, diesel expert, has said there is a pre heat system of some kind in the throttle pot, by the inlet manifold, there is no live feed, they need to know more about this, to move forward, dealer is slow to respond.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #57 : November 10, 2010, 04:32:15 »
Update, have spoken to derv expert, they have not had the information they require from the dealer, so they cannot progress, they did experience some smoke but not enough to worry about which is just my luck, they have documented in report dealer did not provide information.
So a meeting with the dealer beckons.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #58 : November 10, 2010, 05:24:36 »
The only other heating element I can see associated with the fuel supply is a small pre-heater on the fuel filter casing, but thats not on the inlet manifold. Maybe its a fuel temperature sensor issue.

Lets hope the dealer can find the info they need quickly, or if not, it might be worth dropping an email to Hyundai customer care, if you haven't done so already.





 


Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #59 : November 10, 2010, 05:28:33 »
As all hyundai dealers are franchised, it appears Hyundai uk have very little clout, inovice for diag is 65+vat, if I have to pay I will, but will claim back for small claims, also going to speak to solicitor, who believes we got a very strong case to reject car/exchange.