Author Topic: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)  (Read 44580 times)

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #60 : November 10, 2010, 05:50:30 »
That's not unusual, most dealers for any make of car are franchises or independants. I think maybe Ford own a dealership (at least they did), but I don't think many do. Shouldn't stop them getting the info they need.

Its disappointing you have not found satisfaction. Please keep us posted.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #61 : November 20, 2010, 06:06:10 »
Update, rejection letter sent to dealer, also contacted SMMT

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #62 : November 29, 2010, 06:22:30 »
Update
recieved letter from dealer who wont accept rejection, the service manager has emailed me confirming the car is putting out to much smoke ,but here is a snip it from the letter "darren service manager did say that on idle it was putting out more smoke than he would have expected,however he is not a fully trained vechicle technician"
I had a meeting with the MD & mentioned the comments made by his Service Manager who has 8 years experience working at said garage, and that he should be more than qualified to confirm such a problem, but MD dismissed his comments (also stated in his letter to me not accepting rejection of car) stating the service manager is not a fully trained technician, and therefore is not qualified to make these comments, but on many a previous occasion the service manager is happy to give out technical advise to me. In my opinion you do not need to be technically qualified to determine there is a fault with my car, due to the amount of smoke produced, anyone can see there is a problem.

So the car has been to the dealer 3 times to attempt to fix the problem & a diesel expert, and it has got all concerned beat, maybe there is a manufacturing defect, the glow plugs have been changed, and while I admit there are no broken parts, the car continues to produce too much smoke which has been witnessed by the service manager at the dealer.
As a goodwill gesture, MD has offered a red pre registered car, meaning I would not be the first owner, I declined for this reason & its plain red (my car is metallic blue, so I would be losing out financially) MD then said he would try and source a pre registered car in the colour of my choice, again the offer was declined.

I have now requested that Hyundai Technical view the car & the video evidence collected, if they agree car does produce to much smoke, I will contact my solicitor.



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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #63 : November 29, 2010, 07:50:27 »
Is it possible to make a short video of exhaust while starting?

Don't worry if you can't I don't think it will help, just curious to see what it looks like.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #64 : November 29, 2010, 08:23:17 »

This video was taken prior to glow plug change, every cold start would produce this much smoke, now plugs changed this problem occurs say every 3-4 days, but when it went to derv expert car behaved.
In between the 3-4 days, you start car there is instant white smoke & diesel smell & then it starts to produce more white smoke, however as its now v cold this is masked by condensation.


 

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #65 : November 29, 2010, 14:03:09 »
I had an old banger many many years ago and it smoked really bad.

Turned out to be a combination of the rings and cylinder head gasket.

Now I would expect that on a new car but........................
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #66 : November 30, 2010, 05:41:27 »
I read through (some) of the ceed thread you posted in, and watched the video.

Two things come to mind (and I think someone, perhaps it was you! said this was BS on the ceed thread) but the i30 glowplug system is designed to heat for a varying amount of time depending on the input fuel* temperature. I can pull the tech specs later, but my memory says that the length of glow is supposed to be from 1 second in "warm" conditions and will vary all the way up to SIXTEEN seconds when it's really cold (my memory says -15, I'll check later)

*Maybe the fuel temperature sensor is faulty.

There was also some speculation that the dash light might go off before the plugs have finished there work (it shouldn't). You could test the theory by waiting for the car to go cold ovrnight, and then before starting try turning the ignition to the glow setting anf back off a few times before starting, and check for smoke. Maybe you tried this already I didnt read the whole of the other thread.





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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #67 : November 30, 2010, 05:58:29 »
I checked. According to the specs, the relay operating time should be:

+50c = 2 Seconds
+10c = 4 Seconds
-10c = 10 Seconds
-20c = 16 Seconds.

If this is right (source:P0670 in DTC@GSW) then starting my car this morning I'd have expected between 4 and 10 seconds glow though. I got 2 or 3 seconds of indicator light.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #68 : November 30, 2010, 06:30:06 »
Implicit in what you are saying is that the plugs are no longer powered after the light goes out. I assumed that the delay was simply to ensure enough time for the plug to get to optimum temperature... and that power was still applied (and plugs were still hot) until the engine started, then once started, the plug temperature was maintained by the combustion.

If the power is dropped when the indicator light goes out the plugs will immediately begin to go cold. No?

If this was true then the engine should be cranked before or immediately the light goes out, without delay.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #69 : November 30, 2010, 06:49:20 »
@ Lorian, thanks for the info, why are hyundai common rail diesels different from every other common rail diesel, my last car ford with common rail, never saw the glow plug light, only came on when -7 & then it would blink on for 1 second. Other diesels i have owned, once glow plug light goes out, start & away you go.
The dealer & derv expert has gone through the system & no fault found.  At the end of the day, most drivers will see the glow plug light go out & then want to start the engine, they not going to wait or guess how long they need to wait after glow plug light goes out before starting.
This does sound like a rant, but its not.
Cheers


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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #70 : November 30, 2010, 07:13:51 »
I agree, and in fact I find the information about the pre-heat system all a bit woolly. I've never seen the light on my stay on for more than 2 or 3 seconds to be honest.

This morning when I started my car (-1) there was no smoke. Some minor steam for a while as you'd expect, but it started and idled perfectly.

I can't help feeling someone in Hyundai must know the answer to your issue.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #71 : November 30, 2010, 08:13:27 »
Hyundai Uk car coming to inspect the car, which is good, but not sure what they will find, if they confirm to much smoke, will go to court to reject, will also try another derv expert & hopefully they will experience problem at its worse, but it is masked by the condensation now the cold weather is here.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #72 : November 30, 2010, 08:26:48 »
My guess is it would probably fail the MOT emissions test
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #73 : November 30, 2010, 09:22:40 »
@ Shambles, its a smoke issue only at cold startup, any other time all is Ok, so it probably would pass an mot test annoyingly, unless they started from cold & saw smoke and faild car that way, however it does not do it every day so potentially could book it in for 3 MOT's before they experience fault, fingers crossed hyundai techinical can sort.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #74 : November 30, 2010, 11:32:18 »
Update on my problem (lots of smoke on cold startup, service found two glow plugs have blown out (not the fuses, but glow plugs)).

Now that temperatures here have reached -15C, my car barely starts... And looks like smoke grenade for a minute. I called the dealer to check if replacement glowplugs have arrived (115EUR each!!!), and he said that as cold weather set in, they got 4-5 i30 Blue Drives with the same problem... He said they are consulting with Hyundai on what to do, as glowplugs aren't covered by warranty. They will probably replace without charging, but it may take time. Also he said that one guy found glowplugs for this model for a lower price (30EUR or so) somewhere, so it might be in my interests to buy them instead of waiting for replacement by Hyundai (BTW, he also has bought same model, so it's his concern now too).

I wonder what can be causing glow plugs to blow out? If there's short somewhere, then the fuse should blow, not the plug. And what's also interesting, that looks like it happened over the summer, as it became apparent with the very first colder morning in the autumn...


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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #75 : November 30, 2010, 19:52:37 »
I wonder what reasoning excludes glow plugs from warranty.

Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #76 : December 01, 2010, 08:07:48 »
Im meeting with hyundai technical 16/12/2010 sod's law the car behaves, but can at least show the guy video footage of the problem.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #77 : December 02, 2010, 21:29:10 »
Try and get video on different days to prove this is a consistent problem. It would serve to strengthen your case. I would also keep the video going a little longer showing the view of the exhaust pipe.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #78 : December 11, 2010, 18:01:48 »
Again the same thing with my i30 this morning and the morning before, etc (it's been around -5C for few days).

Not that much smoke actually, but when I turn on the car (cold mornings/days), there's some blue smoke. It's like it bursts out of the exhaust and after 1-2 sec there's no blue smoke anymore. Just normal amount of "white" till the car gets warm.. But really just a bit. Oh and yes, it does start a bit "harsh".

Of course I always wait for the light (glow plugs) to go out. Now I'll also try waiting few seconds more. I really don't get it why they are not covered under warranty.. Especially if that happens to a 1 year old car for example or something.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #79 : December 11, 2010, 19:08:42 »
Hi Accim.. Nice to see you (have you been busy .. a bit quieter than usual lately  :wink:)

Sorry for the off topic  :mrgreen:
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #80 : December 12, 2010, 06:07:28 »
Hello Dazz, thanks for asking, nice avatar you have btw.. But some woman is blocking the view  :eek:

.....

Just joking  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yeah, been busy with the apartment and some other business obligations. I'll try to be more active again  :wink:

P.S.: I like the "christmas" theme of the forum  :cool:

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #81 : December 13, 2010, 03:35:12 »
Glad you like the Xmas theme..  :D

Mainly Steve and Hemmi's work with a little input from us other original members..
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #82 : December 23, 2010, 12:31:18 »
Hello!

A member on Slovenian Hyundai forum had similar problem, but her car didn't even want to start or started really hard and after long time.. I also gave her link to this page (topic) for help and it turned out, the problem was really like Lorian described on the previous page. The glow plugs burned out (all four of them), because of that metal or smth.
Anyways..they somehow found 4 new glow plugs on stock in Slovenia (which was not that easy) and they replaced them. They also fixed that thing, which "burned out" the plugs. Everything was done under warranty (she didn't pay for anything!) So that's good news. For now, her i30 seems to be okay.

Here's link to the forum and her explanation (which she got at the service). It was translated with google translator, so it probably "sounds" weird/funny..   :faint:  :winker:

CLICK here


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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #83 : December 23, 2010, 13:26:12 »
Glad we could help :D


Here's link to the forum and her explanation (which she got at the service). It was translated with google translator

It does quite a decent job at translating too. Dunno about this bit tho:

Quote
but this board is an Australian

:lol:
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #84 : December 23, 2010, 14:00:09 »
Looks like an interesting site.. thanks Accim (It is fun to read google translations)  :eek:
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #85 : December 23, 2010, 14:04:30 »
Here is another tip for folk who have the bluish smoke on startup, that would be worth a try. A chap on the Kia forums says his problem wnet away when he started using millers disel addative:

"The problem I had was definately incorrectly combusted diesel - you could tell by the smell. I tried a diesel treatment (from Miller Oils) and this cleared the problem within a week. "

On my i30 i've used miller's "diesel power ecomax" at least once a month since new.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #86 : December 28, 2010, 08:45:15 »
In my I30 two glow plugs burned out. Prior to glow plugs change (single-handed, because blockheads from Hyundai Service affirmed that I refuel bad fuel  :evil:) , my motor was smoking (blue)  in the cold morning. Now there are original Mobis plugs but marked NGK (earlier there were tacky plugs marked Yura-tech). Now all is OK.

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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #87 : December 28, 2010, 10:58:55 »
In my I30 two glow plugs burned out. Prior to glow plugs change (single-handed, because blockheads from Hyundai Service affirmed that I refuel bad fuel  :evil:) , my motor was smoke (blue)  in the cold morning. Now there are original Mobis plugs but marked NGK (earlier there were tacky plugs marked Yura-tech). Now all is OK.

Good result
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #88 : December 28, 2010, 12:58:42 »
In my I30 two glow plugs burned out. Prior to glow plugs change (single-handed, because blockheads from Hyundai Service affirmed that I refuel bad fuel  :evil:) , my motor was smoking (blue)  in the cold morning. Now there are original Mobis plugs but marked NGK (earlier there were tacky plugs marked Yura-tech). Now all is OK.

That is very interesting (The first time I have heard a brand of glow plug mentioned) sounds like there could be two issues with the glow plugs which could cause the smoke problem, shorting and glow plug quality... :goodjob:

I could be wrong but i think there have been less problems with glow plugs for our Aussie members Korean made cars (and these have been primarily a shorting out issue) whereas the european cars may be due to the use of inferior glow plugs.. :idea:

I could be on the wrong track but I don't think any of the earlier Korean built i30's owned by our european members have had glow plug issues??
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Re: Smoke on start-up with CRDI (2)
« Reply #89 : December 28, 2010, 13:34:47 »

I could be on the wrong track but I don't think any of the earlier Korean built i30's owned by our european members have had glow plug issues??

Mine is over 3 yo and still the original glow plugs.

No problems to report
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